Nutrition The ketogenic diet + S&S combination

[Kenny Croxdale]

This one is easy, chin-up clusters for biceps, triceps I'll have to figure out. Thanks for the link on Oliver's study

Compound and Isolation Exercises

Oliver's research suggest performing Compound Exercise with Cluster Sets and using Traditional Bodybuilding Hypertrophy Training for Isolation Exercise.

I initially "Clustered" everything. I now only Cluster Compound Exercise and use Traditional Bodybuilding Hypertrophy Training for Isolation Exercise (Curls, Triceps Pushdowns, etc).

Oliver's recommendation for Traditional Bodybuilding Hypertrophy Training for Isolation Exercise has been more effective for me. Give each a try and see how it works for you.

I'll have to study this and think it through. I'm a little bit leary about using a tourniquet type device to stifle blood flow to the muscle. It seems counter intuitive to purposely pool blood in any tissue. My gut tells me no but maybe after more research on it I'll get brave enough to do something.

Occlusion Training

I understand how you feel. My initial reaction was, "What idiot came up with this idea?"

The first article that I read on it was in 2008 by Dr Layne Norton, someone that I followed.

It took me 6 months of researching it and thinking about it before I began using Occlusion Training.

With that said, let me provide you with some additional information on it.

1) Tourniquet Tension: On a pain level scale of 1 - 10, you want it to be around a 6 - 7.

You want it tight enough to restrict venous blood flow back to the heart but not so tight it restricts arterial blood from from the heart to the muscles.

The Pump drives hypertrophy. Traditional Bodybuilding Hypertrophy Training elicits The Pump.

That response occur because when a muscle contracts, it restrict venous blood flow back to the heart; blood is trapped in the muscles.

Thus, Traditional Bodybuilding Hypertrophy Training Repetition elicit the same effect as Occlusion Training with a tourniquet.

The tourniquet combined with the higher reps (let say 30 reps) simply magnifies The Pump.

2) Bands or Knee Wraps: Most individuals use knee wraps, which I don't care for. I found Rubber Exercise Tubes to be a better alternative.

3) Eases Into It: Pick one exercise for Occlusion Training to start with.

Start with something like Triceps Pushdowns or Curls.

One question.. Why wouldn't I be able to blend these two strategies? Meaning that if I opted for the chin-up clusters while using the occlusion strategy it should not be a problem to produce a good pump at say 6,5,4,3 rep sets with 15 sec rest intervals for say 3 clusters.

Sounds Good

Blending the two sound like a good plan to me. Seems like it would work.

The only thing I can think of being a problem would be a 'deadening' and loss of power in the occluded muscle fibers and therefore not workable.

Loss of Power

There is definitely going to be a loss of Power with any type of Occlusion.

However, there should be an increase in lactate which triggers hypertrophy.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

If it said: Fat for fuel, one way to lose fat by creating a calorie deficit, thus combating obesity and increasing your energy, fair enough.

Weight Loss

The primary reason that the Ketogenic Diet works for weight loss is that a high fat diet kills hunger.

I initially combined the Keto Diet with Intermittent Fasting. I lost 17 lbs in 35 days. Weight loss averaged .48 lb per day.

Gaining Weight

After losing the weight, I decide that I wanted to gain it back while being on the Ketogenic Diet.

Since I was limited on my carbohydrate and protein intake, that meant that I had to increase my fat intake; which I did. I gained back 13 lb by increasing my fat intake.

The Moral To The Story

Consume less calories, you lose weight, NO matter what the diet is.

Consume more calories, you gain weight, NO matter what the diet is.

That meaning you still need to count calories on a Ketogenic Diet.

Ketogenic Diet For Health Conditions

Research has demonstrated that it help with many diseases: Cancer, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, Traumatic Brain Injury, Elipesy, etc.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[North Coast Miller]

ATP Energy System

Adinosine Triphosphate is used for Power and Limit Strength (1 Repetition Max).

The ATP Energy System is a "Shooting Star", depleted in 30 seconds.

However, the majority of APT is pretty much depleted in around 15 seconds. Power drop like a rock after 15 seconds.

Complete ATP restoration take around 3 minutes of rest or longer.

APT Refueling

Dr Greg Haff's research found that up to 79% of ATP can be restored to muscle in around 45 seconds.

Which brings us to...

ATP is actually the only fuel used by all muscle - fast and slow twitch. The difference in systems is the rate of turnover, the recharge rate of restoring phosphate to ADP.

The Creatine Phosphate can be rapidly recharged initially by reversing the process and taking phosphate from surplus ATP generated by one of the other pathways.

Oxidative Energy System Athletes

Let use Marathon Runner as an example. It is not a high intensity event.

The majority of it is preformed at a lower intensity; ketones are the primary energy source for Keto Adapted Athletes, glucose is spared and kept in reserve.

Several studies have shown that in competitive marathon runners over half of the ATP is generated via glycolysis. A Keto athlete can certainly whip up enough ketones to run a marathon, but carb-burning athletes consistently perform at the top of the list with carb-loaded individuals generally hitting the fastest times.

I have been looking into the research on how well Keto adapted folk can even access their glucose stores for physical activity when needed. Most of it would theoretically be held in reserve for liver function and other glucose dependent metabolism. Yet it seems impossible that only the two pathways could seamlessly cover a wide range of energy output.

That naturally leads to the next question

High Intensity Training/Sports

The fuel source is ATP, as you noted, High Intensity isn't dependent on glucose and you don't need to be Keto Adapted.

The information that I posted pertained to individual how Keto Adapted Athletes (like myself) need to train for optimal results; by passing the Glycolytic Energy System.

Is there some other mechanism at work here? Set duration would have to be very short - shorter than even most Ketogenic athletes observe I'd imagine. CrP stores peak in seconds, tend to tank within 10-15 seconds and in a mixed metabolic athlete, at that 10-15 second mark 1/2 or more of their ATP is already coming from glycolysis. With zero glycolysis it seems impossible the fast twitch muscles would have anything else to fuel muscle contraction. You would expect a shift in density toward slow twitch fibers but it all seems to respond as usual to rep/set/loading patterns. Yet I'd imagine many high intensity set lengths go past the 15 second mark.

It sounds a bit crazy but are there any studies you know of that identified lactate or pyruvate levels in Keto athletes following a bout of intense exercise? Theoretically any pyruvate they did produce would all be converted to lactate as the mitochondria would be incapable of utilizing it.

Thank you for bring a lot to the table on this subject (and quite a few others), it has spurred me to do a lot more looking into this topic than I otherwise would have. And still much to learn.

 

[Bret S.]

Compound and Isolation Exercises

Oliver's research suggest performing Compound Exercise with Cluster Sets and using Traditional Bodybuilding Hypertrophy Training for Isolation Exercise.

I initially "Clustered" everything. I now only Cluster Compound Exercise and use Traditional Bodybuilding Hypertrophy Training for Isolation Exercise (Curls, Triceps Pushdowns, etc).

Oliver's recommendation for Traditional Bodybuilding Hypertrophy Training for Isolation Exercise has been more effective for me. Give each a try and see how it works for you.



Occlusion Training

I understand how you feel. My initial reaction was, "What idiot came up with this idea?"

The first article that I read on it was in 2008 by Dr Layne Norton, someone that I followed.

It took me 6 months of researching it and thinking about it before I began using Occlusion Training.

With that said, let me provide you with some additional information on it.

1) Tourniquet Tension: On a pain level scale of 1 - 10, you want it to be around a 6 - 7.

You want it tight enough to restrict venous blood flow back to the heart but not so tight it restricts arterial blood from from the heart to the muscles.

The Pump drives hypertrophy. Traditional Bodybuilding Hypertrophy Training elicits The Pump.

That response occur because when a muscle contracts, it restrict venous blood flow back to the heart; blood is trapped in the muscles.

Thus, Traditional Bodybuilding Hypertrophy Training Repetition elicit the same effect as Occlusion Training with a tourniquet.

The tourniquet combined with the higher reps (let say 30 reps) simply magnifies The Pump.

2) Bands or Knee Wraps: Most individuals use knee wraps, which I don't care for. I found Rubber Exercise Tubes to be a better alternative.

3) Eases Into It: Pick one exercise for Occlusion Training to start with.

Start with something like Triceps Pushdowns or Curls.



Sounds Good

Blending the two sound like a good plan to me. Seems like it would work.



Loss of Power

There is definitely going to be a loss of Power with any type of Occlusion.

However, there should be an increase in lactate which triggers hypertrophy.

Kenny Croxdale

Thanks Kenny I'll definitely be doing some experimenting with this stuff in the coming months and report anything noteworthy

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

Several studies have shown that in competitive marathon runners over half of the ATP is generated via glycolysis.

Ketosis ATP

Research shows that Fatty Acids produce over three times the amount of ATP that Glucose.

...carb-burning athletes consistently perform at the top of the list with carb-loaded individuals generally hitting the fastest times.

Endurance Athletes

The majority of the Endurance Athletes are still in the High Carbohydrate Diets. They have no idea of what they might able to do on a well formulated Ketogenic Diet.

Ben Greenfield is one of the leading Endurance Athletes that has preformed well; working with other on how to improve performance via Keto.

Set duration would have to be very short - shorter than even most Ketogenic athletes observe I'd imagine.

Reinforcing What I Stated

I have several post on this site that has gone into that.

That is the essence the information on the Training Protocol Ketogenic Athletes need to implement to obtain maximum results.

any studies you know of that identified lactate or pyruvate levels in Keto athletes

Lower Lactated Levels

Research show Keto Adapted Atheles have lower Lactate Levels.

A high VO2 Max is one of the components of a good endurance athlete. A secondary component that is just as important is Lactate Threshold; being able to process lactate or having less lactate build up is necessary.

Low Carbohydrate Endurance Athlete

The majority of people who try a Ketogenic Diet are never on a Ketogenic Diet. Endurance Athletes fall into this category, as well.

They are on a High Protein, High Fat, Low Carbohyrate Diet that guarantees a decrease in performance.

I just had this discussion with a friend who an Exercise Physiologist who teaches at a college and is a distance runner.

He emphatically told me that a Ketogenic Diet does not work for endurance athletes. After drilling down to his diet experience for distant running, it turned out he was on a High Protein, High Fat, Low Carbohydrate Diet.

So, he never tried a Ketogenic Diet or was on a Ketogenic Diet, as he thought.

Misunderstanding and Misinformation

A lack of knowledge and practical experience is the primary reason the majority of individual have this issue.

While, I have the knowledge on the Ketogenic Diet for Endurance Athletes, I lack the first hand, practical experience, which is vital.

However, when it come to the application of how a Strength and Power Ketogenic Diet Athlete need to train, I have the knowledge and practical experience.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[North Coast Miller]

Ketosis ATP

Research shows that Fatty Acids produce over three times the amount of ATP that Glucose.

Endurance Athletes

The majority of the Endurance Athletes are still in the High Carbohydrate Diets. They have no idea of what they might able to do on a well formulated Ketogenic Diet.

Ben Greenfield is one of the leading Endurance Athletes that has preformed well; working with other on how to improve performance via Keto.

The issue isn't one of total stores, but of how rapidly they can be accessed. When pyruvate is cycled through the mitochondria it produces ATP faster than fatty acids or ketone bodies.

I'm just going by the few studies that exist on the subject, and on the relationship of carboloading to run times. Ultimately you reach the limits of chemical reaction speed and number of steps, all else being equal.

Lower Lactated Levels

Research show Keto Adapted Atheles have lower Lactate Levels.

A high VO2 Max is one of the components of a good endurance athlete. A secondary component that is just as important is Lactate Threshold; being able to process lactate or having less lactate build up is necessary.

Agreed, the total levels are not really important compared to clearance rates, its the accumulation that signals a decline in function.

I was thinking if a Keto athlete were tapping into glycolysis a little, they would perhaps not be able to clear lactate as quickly due to reduced ability to utilize pyruvate. It seems inconceivable there would be no glycolytic activity to supplement the Phosphagen pathway, so next question would be how much? I realize it doesn't matter from a practical standpoint but this is the stuff I like to think on. Speculation.

 

[ali]

Sorry, I felt compelled to post this.
My point: the ketogenic diet is promoted, as previously mentioned, as a cancer cure. I know I'm going off on one about this and of course no one here is saying this, nor has it got much to do with how 'keto' is discussed here and used but nonetheless it is all part of the package. Please read....

Tech giants are making millions from ‘quack’ diet apps for cancer

Tech giants are making millions from ‘quack’ diet apps for cancer
Jack Malvern, StevenMathieson

Hundreds of thousands of people in Britain have downloaded apps through Google and Apple that market themselves with unproven claims to treat cancer and other diseases.

Among the most popular examples are those that promote “ketogenic diets” with the suggestion that they are effective in fighting cancer, even though there have been no clinical trials in humans to support the claims.

Google and Apple, which take a 30 per cent cut of revenues from apps sold through their stores, have made millions of pounds through ketogenic diet aids such as Lifesum, which has been downloaded by more than 200,000 people in Britain in the past 18 months. It has more than 25 million users worldwide and has generated $7.7 million in revenue since the beginning of 2017, according to an estimate by the app analyst Apptopia.

Last night medical experts said the giant tech companies needed to act more responsibly. They warned that following such a diet, which restricts the consumption of carbohydrates, may be harmful because patients who lose weight are more likely to suffer side-effects from chemotherapy.

Ben Goldacre, a senior clinical research fellow in the medical sciences division at Oxford University, said that medical regulators should be better at policing apps. “There is a sudden overwhelming tide of quackery in software.”

Ruth Kilcawley, an oncologist dietician based in Galway, Ireland, said that there had been clinical trials that showed ketogenic diets to be effective in treating child epilepsy but not cancer. She said Google and Apple should act responsibly.

Other apps endorse medically unproven therapies such as alkaline diets, which claim to combat cancer by changing the body’s acidity, or eating aloe vera, which may cause harm to cancer patients because it is a laxative.

Lifesum’s website contained an article entitled “Adding a ketogenic diet to your cancer-fighting arsenal”. The company, which is based in Sweden, claimed: “Not only can [the diet] accelerate weight loss, but it’s also been known to combat certain diseases and disorders, including cancer.”

It supported the idea, which is dismissed as a myth by Cancer Research UK, that reducing blood sugar starves cancer cells of fuel. The charity said: “It’s not that simple. All our healthy cells need glucose too, and there’s no way of telling our bodies to let healthy cells have the glucose they need, but not to give it to cancer cells.”

Although there has been a study that found that a ketogenic diet has reduced tumour growth in mice, the charity said there was no evidence that it was effective in humans either as a way of reducing risk or increasing survival.

When Lifesum was contacted by The Times it removed the article from its website. It said in a statement: “Our official page for the ketogenic diet — and in-app content — makes no reference to the ongoing debate on the role of nutrition in cancer avoidance or treatment. However, we have removed a blog post in which we referenced some of the arguments being presented by those who advocate the diet, as we feel it did not accurately reflect the complexity of the ongoing research.”

Ketodiet, a British-based app created by the diet author Martina Slajerova, claimed on its website: “A very low-carb ketogenic diet has been shown to help manage and even treat health conditions such as Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s and even cancer.” The app has been downloaded 110,000 times in the past 18 months, including 1,700 in Britain.

ends.

 

[North Coast Miller]

Sorry, I felt compelled to post this.
My point: the ketogenic diet is promoted, as previously mentioned, as a cancer cure. I know I'm going off on one about this and of course no one here is saying this, nor has it got much to do with how 'keto' is discussed here and used but nonetheless it is all part of the package. Please read....

Tech giants are making millions from ‘quack’ diet apps for cancer

Tech giants are making millions from ‘quack’ diet apps for cancer
Jack Malvern, StevenMathieson

Hundreds of thousands of people in Britain have downloaded apps through Google and Apple that market themselves with unproven claims to treat cancer and other diseases.

Among the most popular examples are those that promote “ketogenic diets” with the suggestion that they are effective in fighting cancer, even though there have been no clinical trials in humans to support the claims.

Google and Apple, which take a 30 per cent cut of revenues from apps sold through their stores, have made millions of pounds through ketogenic diet aids such as Lifesum, which has been downloaded by more than 200,000 people in Britain in the past 18 months. It has more than 25 million users worldwide and has generated $7.7 million in revenue since the beginning of 2017, according to an estimate by the app analyst Apptopia.

Last night medical experts said the giant tech companies needed to act more responsibly. They warned that following such a diet, which restricts the consumption of carbohydrates, may be harmful because patients who lose weight are more likely to suffer side-effects from chemotherapy.

Ben Goldacre, a senior clinical research fellow in the medical sciences division at Oxford University, said that medical regulators should be better at policing apps. “There is a sudden overwhelming tide of quackery in software.”

Ruth Kilcawley, an oncologist dietician based in Galway, Ireland, said that there had been clinical trials that showed ketogenic diets to be effective in treating child epilepsy but not cancer. She said Google and Apple should act responsibly.

Other apps endorse medically unproven therapies such as alkaline diets, which claim to combat cancer by changing the body’s acidity, or eating aloe vera, which may cause harm to cancer patients because it is a laxative.

Lifesum’s website contained an article entitled “Adding a ketogenic diet to your cancer-fighting arsenal”. The company, which is based in Sweden, claimed: “Not only can [the diet] accelerate weight loss, but it’s also been known to combat certain diseases and disorders, including cancer.”

It supported the idea, which is dismissed as a myth by Cancer Research UK, that reducing blood sugar starves cancer cells of fuel. The charity said: “It’s not that simple. All our healthy cells need glucose too, and there’s no way of telling our bodies to let healthy cells have the glucose they need, but not to give it to cancer cells.”

Although there has been a study that found that a ketogenic diet has reduced tumour growth in mice, the charity said there was no evidence that it was effective in humans either as a way of reducing risk or increasing survival.

When Lifesum was contacted by The Times it removed the article from its website. It said in a statement: “Our official page for the ketogenic diet — and in-app content — makes no reference to the ongoing debate on the role of nutrition in cancer avoidance or treatment. However, we have removed a blog post in which we referenced some of the arguments being presented by those who advocate the diet, as we feel it did not accurately reflect the complexity of the ongoing research.”

Ketodiet, a British-based app created by the diet author Martina Slajerova, claimed on its website: “A very low-carb ketogenic diet has been shown to help manage and even treat health conditions such as Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s and even cancer.” The app has been downloaded 110,000 times in the past 18 months, including 1,700 in Britain.

ends.

I thought there had been clinical trials. Atkins concluded it was ineffective for cancer after a number of attempts. Studies I read indicated in some cases it led to slight regression followed by very rapid rebound effect. No doubt it is good for some conditions but inferred benefits from unrelated biology processes should be looked at very skeptically.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

Sorry, I felt compelled to post this.
My point: the ketogenic diet is promoted, as previously mentioned, as a cancer cure. I know I'm going off on one about this and of course no one here is saying this, nor has it got much to do with how 'keto' is discussed here and used but nonetheless it is all part of the package.

Ketogenic Diet Research and Cancer

Research by Drs Thomas Seyfried, Dom D'Agostino and others have demonstrated that implimenting a Ketogenic Diet for most cancers, not all, can impede cancer growth. Can does not mean it will cure cancer.

However, in one reported case, the individual using the Ketogenic Diet went into remission.

As I noted in my previous post, the Ketogenic Diet can improve other health conditions.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[Bret S.]

the Ketogenic Diet can improve other health conditions.

I believe in trying 'alternative ' approaches to medicine as I also believe our medical system in the US has been compromised. Not to the point of stubbornness and dying of a conventionally treatable illness but as a first go-to. I'm sick of the Pharmaceutical companies marketing and control of doctors and insurance companies. These SOB's know how many people will get complications, how many will die and how much they will pay in claims. If the numbers work then it's' full speed ahead'.

There are many 'natural' treatments that work wonders.

Pioneers in the field of orthomolecular medicine like Abram Hoffer and others have done literally decades of research in the field and proved the effectiveness and power of these treatments in some (not all) cases.

My GF had some cholesterol readings high enough for the doc to warn on using meds. I got her on higher doses of vitamin C, Lysine and Proline. Her cholesterol levels have steadily improved. The doc said keep doing what your'e doing as it's working. If more people would wake up and look at ignored research of the past they'd be better off and healthier.

I'm no expert on any of this but my eyes are open.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

I believe in trying 'alternative ' approaches to medicine as I also believe our medical system in the US has been compromised.

Compromised

That is a kind way of putting it.

Part of the issue is under educated physicians who are still in the 20th Century. Snowman, who posts on this site, and is in medical school and I have discussed this.

I'm sick of the Pharmaceutical companies marketing and control of doctors and insurance companies.

Pharmaceutical Companies

1) Marketing: Again, that is a kind term.

In my past life, I worked in Radio and TV Advertising. As I told my clients, there isn't much difference between Advertising and Propaganda.

"If you scream it loud enough and long enough, people believe it."

One of the keys to Advertising is "Impressions"; bombarding people with the same message, day and day out. It is "Brainwashing".

2) Product Information

a) Another component is neglecting to report all the facts.

b) Blending fact with fiction.

Purdue Pharma, The Poster Child

1) They buried the information on OxyContin being addictive, causing health issues.

2) They coined the term "Pseudoaddictive"; some individual might feel they were addicted to OxyCotin but were not. Then pedaled "Pseudoaddictive" to physicians with NO research to substantiate it.

My GF had some cholesterol readings high enough for the doc to warn on using meds. I got her on higher doses of vitamin C, Lysine and Proline. Her cholesterol levels have steadily improved.

High Cholesterol Reading

High cholesterol may or may not be a problem. You need to look at the individual numbers and their ratio to each other.

1) Total Cholesterol Reading: This is a worthless reading by itself.

2) HDL: This is an important number.

3) Triglycerides: This a vitally important number.

4) LDL: The number means nothing alone.

What determines if you LDL is good or bad is Particle Size.

a) Particle A: A high percentage of Particle A, even with a high LDL reading means you are in good heath.

b) Particle B: A high percentage of Particle B, even IF your LDL reading is low, indicates you have an issue.

Determining Particle Size

Physician can order lab work to determine your Particle Size Percentages. However, they never do and the never tell you about it.

However, your Triglyceride:HDL Ratio can provide you with great feed back.

Formula Ratio

Divide your Triglycerides by your HDL

If you number is 2.o or lower, you are good. If you number is around 4.0 that bad.

Personal Example

Here are my numbers...

Triglycerides: 51

HDL: 48

51 divided by 48 = 1.0625

Kenny Croxdale

 

[North Coast Miller]

I always look at diet and lifestyle first. really a lot of the maintenance medication protocols the doctors use these days are based on assumption you are in lousy shape and will do nothing about activity levels or diet. In those cases the meds might be of some help, but not without their own problems.

I've had great luck with surgical interventions for a couple of issues, am more receptive to being cut open than I am to taking meds, and I research and second opinion before any medical intervention (have never needed maintenance meds). Most surgeons are reluctant to cut anyone open for no good reason but the Dr will prescribe whatever pills at the drop of a hat.

If you have to visit Dr's office with any regularity it seems always around lunchtime attractive women with briefcase showing up to take the Dr to eat. I am full blown skeptical of all but the most proven, including vaccines.

My wife recently had a bout of shingles - was caught early and treated - very mild overall. Her Dr recommended the "new" vaccine. She goes to pharmacy and pharmacist says "Why vaccinate when you've just contracted the illness? Your immune system is already primed to identify this virus. Will do you no good and expose you to potential side effects - this makes no sense."

My kinds received the Flumist vaccine the two years it was available, next year is not offered, they get the shot. I look into it why its no longer used - was essentially 0% effective. Wha...?

 

[Bret S.]

a) Particle A: A high percentage of Particle A, even with a high LDL reading means you are in good heath.

I believe she said the doc told her the LDL particle size is small and and that it was good. I'll try and get her results.. Seems he may have tested it..? Will post results

 

[Bret S.]

a lot of the maintenance medication protocols the doctors use these days are based on assumption you are in lousy shape and will do nothing about activity levels or diet.

the Dr will prescribe whatever pills at the drop of a hat.

Will do you no good and expose you to potential side effects - this makes no sense

Bingo


'Be sure to tell your doctor about all the medications your'e taking'

Cut scene to a happy family smiling and enjoying nature together.. Gaaaggg...

 

[Michael Scott]

Better yet, they have access to that information, and ask you what meds you are taking. Um, they are on the screen in front of you.

Or, my favorite.....Doc will that new med clash with what I am taking currently? "maybe, what are you taking...?".....Wha....? You are prescribing me something without checking if it will be bad to take with another med you prescribed me?

Bingo

'Be sure to tell your doctor about all the medications your'e taking'

Cut scene to a happy family smiling and enjoying nature together.. Gaaaggg...

 

[Bret S.]

Or, my favorite.....Doc will that new med clash with what I am taking currently? "maybe, what are you taking...?".....Wha....? You are prescribing me something without checking if it will be bad to take with another med you prescribed me?

Reminds me of the song, " God Damn the Pusher Man" .. can't remember who, sixties era I believe

 

[Steve Freides]

A reminder to everyone:

We do not give medical advice on the StrongFirst forum.

We should be careful not to characterize the medical establishment in broad strokes. It's each person's right and responsibility to seek out the medical care of their choosing.

We should also be careful not to characterize any approach to eating with too broad a stroke - as with strength training, we know that success has been achieved by a wide variety of means, and we don't say you're wrong, only that we know what we do works.

This is a good, interesting, informative thread, and on behalf of StrongFirst, I want to thank everyone for their participation and continuing to behave like a lady or a gentlemen, strong feelings notwithstanding.

-S-

 

[Bret S.]

A reminder to everyone:

We do not give medical advice on the StrongFirst forum.

We should be careful not to characterize the medical establishment in broad strokes. It's each person's right and responsibility to seek out the medical care of their choosing.

We should also be careful not to characterize any approach to eating with too broad a stroke - as with strength training, we know that success has been achieved by a wide variety of means, and we don't say you're wrong, only that we know what we do works.

This is a good, interesting, informative thread, and on behalf of StrongFirst, I want to thank everyone for their participation and continuing to behave like a lady or a gentlemen, strong feelings notwithstanding.

-S-

Forgot the disclaimer, " I'm not a doctor, but I'll have a look at it"

Seriously though, point taken Steve, sometimes I get a little wound up over this stuff.

I realize there are many 'good' doctors out there and their services are needed and appreciated. My beef is more with the 'system'. I forget at times this is a public forum and I'm tied to Strongfirst as a representative.

The party is always right