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Nutrition The ketogenic diet + S&S combination

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Post Activation Potentiation Training, Occlusion Training, Cluster Sets, Intermittent Fasting, the Kegogenic Diet, etc.

hey Kenny, I'm tired of my girl telling me how I'm not as big as I used to be, although I tell her I weigh the same and I'm stronger..

I have a path with specific strength goals and am happy training that way. I use cluster sets and love them. I had 20" arms and still showed abs in 1984-87 so I'm no novice when it comes to muscle building (just older). Frankly it bores me to do dumbbell work and irritates my joints. I'm looking at possibly using an occlusion/cluster strategy for bi/tri work using supersets going 15 mins twice a week. I figure this way I can gain a little hypertrophy in the guns region and not interfere with my strength pursuits.

So here's my questions:

- Using sub max loads of 20-30% in clusters of supersets on opposing muscle groups seems like the way to go.?

- With these light loads how quickly will muscle adaptation make this strategy ineffective?

- This appears to be 'pump artist' muscle building and therefore kinda like window dressing? I've never used high rep stuff for hypertrophy.

At any rate these techniques are fascinating and I'd like to explore a bit.. Thanks
 
My general point... the quest to be in ketosis with a focus on high fat whilst at the same time demonising and avoiding nutrient dense foods just because they contain carb is not a healthy diet.

Demonizing Carbohydrates

Carbohydrates aren't demons. Some are good choices and some aren't dependent various factors.

A Health Ketogenic Diet...

should consist of high fiber carbohydrates. High fiber carbohydrates are usually low in carbohydrates/calorie

My diet consist of green beans, broccoli, mashed cauliflower, squash. greens, lettuce, asparagus, olives, pickles, peppers, etc.

As Dr Jonny Bowden (Nutritionist) has recommended "Eat vegetables/carbohydrates of color".

And then specifically. ....the confusion and different interpretations of the keto diet.

Lack of Knowledge

The confusion comes from a lack of knowledge. I am a former member of that club. I initially consumed too much protein. I was on a high protein, high fat, very low carbohydrate diet, not a Ketogenic Diet.

There are essentially two types of Ketogenic Diets.

1) Classic Ketogenic Diet

This is the one initially used for epilepsy.

It's around 90% fat, 6% protein and 4% carbohydrates.

2) Modified Atkins (Ketogenic) Diet, MAD

This is a more relaxed Ketogenic Diet compared to the Classic Ketogenic Diet.

It's around 70% fat, 20% protein and 5 carbohydrates.

Some individual may be able to push their protein intake a little higher, maybe up to 35%; that that is it.

Any other "interpretations of the keto diet" regarding macro percentages mean someone doesn't know what they are doing.

Let me also add two Ketogenic Diet researchers, Drs Jacob Wilson and Ryan Lowery, are adamant about including high fiber carbohydrates, while keeping them down to around 50 of gram per day.


My take.....you can eat a very healthy and balanced diet, be an efficient fat burner and not pay any attention to ketone levels.

A Healthy and Balanced Diet

There is definitely "confusion and different interpretations" of what this means.

When someone tell me that, I ask them to provide me with a general idea of what that eat for eat meal.

There are various things that make you an efficient fat burner, another topic for another time.

As @kennycro@@aol.com states he is on a ketogenic diet for a medical reason. It's a medical intervention not a lifestyle choice, for him

Life Style Choice

I like the Ketogenic Diet. However, I'd rather do Intermittent Fasting and have Reese's Peanut Butter Cups and Dr Pepper form time to time.

Kenny Croxdale
 
Can you say more about keto strips not being reliable?

Steve,

Here are two good articles on that...

https://www.ruled.me/measuring-ketosis-keto-sticks-keto-strips/

Why You Need To Stop Worrying About The Color Of Your Ketostix - Ketopia
=
Ketometer

The Ketometer measure ketones in the blood appears to be the most accurate, as on of the article states.

However, the test strips are $1 to $2 each, which get costly.

The Mojo Ketometer's test strips are $1 but various review on it indicate it has some accuracy issues.

The Precision Ketometer appears to be more reliable. However, the test strips are $2 each or more.

If the Keto Test Strips are generally working for you, that the least expensive method.

Glucometer

The Glucometer can provide some indirect feed back on ketones via measuring blood sugar. I have an article on that but can remember where I filed it.

The article went into how a low blood sugar number after a meal was an indication that you may be in ketosis. Other factors along with the Glucometer needed to put into the equation to get an idea.

I just purchased one. My blood sugar reading after a meal is Between 109 to 125 on the Keto Diet. My pre-meal reading is 90 - 93. So, my blood sugar level don't change much with a keto meal.

Diet Drinks

I find having some Diet Powerade help quince my sweet tooth.

However, there are articles that Diet Drinks can spike blood sugar, insulin.

None of my reading have shown that a Diet Drink increases my blood sugar number.

Home

For anyone interested in measuring their blood sugar, the most cost effective Glucometer plan that I found was Diathrive, above.

The entry level plan runs $24 every three months. It come with the meter, the finger prickers, and the test strips and you can cancel anytime. I figured it was worth $8 monthly investment.

Kenny Croxdale
 
Can you please elaborate on ATP and oxidative energy systems and how different training programs fit with it?

A Comprehensive Guide to Bodybuilding on the Ketogenic Diet | Ruled Me

This article does a nice job of explaining the Energy Systems and why work for those on the Ketogenic Diet.

Overall, I agree with the article. However, I do have some minor disagreements.

A Brief Explaination

1) The ATP/Phosphagen System: This Energy System is used for short all out effort; Power and Strength. Creating power it.

ATP is depleted in 30 seconds but in all an all out effort it pretty much gone in 15 seconds. That is why in an all out effort, Power and Strength drop like a rock in 10 -15 seconds.

Keto Adapted people have enough ATP for activities/training that is limited to 30 seconds or less.

2) Glycogen Energy System: This Energy System is use with moderate high effort. It runs off glucose (carbohydrates). Glucose is used for 30 to 2.5 minutes activities.

Keto Adapted people have the same amount of glucose stored as High Carbohydrate people. However, Keto Adapted people are efficient at using ketones and inefficient at using glucose.

That mean a Keto Adapted individual won't preform as well as a High Carbohydrate Diet person or someone who does Intermittent Fasting.

Intermittent Fasting develop the ability of someone to use ketones or glucose; switching back and forth dependent on the need. Think of it like a hybrid car that is uses electricity or gas depend on the need.

3) Oxidative Energy System: This Energy System is use with low effort endurance work. It primarily runs off ketones, body fat. It kick in after 2.5 minutes and keep fueling you after that.

The Ketogenic Diet appear to be very effective for endurance events which runs primarily off ketones/body fat.

Bonking

One of the main problem with long distance events, like marathons is Bonking, athletes running out of glucose.

Between 400 to 500 gram of glucose is stored in your muscles, blood and liver. That means you have around 1600 to 2000 kcals in your "Glucose Gas Tank".

Ketone "Fat Levels"

A Keto Adapted Endurance Athlete has plenty of ketone in thier Gas Tank.

As an example, let's say a marathon runner that weights 150 lbs has 10% body fat.

That equates to 15 lbs of fat (150 lbs X 10%).

That mean have 52, 500 kcals of ketone fuel in their Gas Tank.

(3500 kcal in a pound of fat X 15 lbs of body fat).

Thus, the Keto Adapted Athlete uses more ketones/body fat and able to preserve glucose, until it is needed.

Training Programs

Training for Power, Strength, Hypertrophy, and Endurance require different type of sets, repetitions, training percentage, rest period between sets, etc. That is a well known fact.

Ketogenic Diet Athletes need to apply the same principle to their training.

Thus, the Keto Adpated Athlete most effective training is in the ATP and Oxidative Energy System.

The least effective Training Program for Keto Adapted Athletes is the Glucolytic Energy System.

Keto Adapted Athletes have enough glucose but can't access it well enough to use it.

Kenny Croxdale
 
So here's my questions:

- Using sub max loads of 20-30% in clusters of supersets on opposing muscle groups seems like the way to go.?

Traditional Bodybuilding Hypertrophy Training

This method of moderate to high repetition is considered the most effective method for increasing muscle mass.

As you probably know, one of the key factors for triggering muscle growth is lactate; it trigger an anabolic hormonal cascade.

Moderate to higher repetition increase lactate to a greater degree than Cluster Sets.

However, the downside for Strength and Power Atheltes is that there is a drop in Strength and Power with Traditional Bodybuilding Hypertrophy Training.

Based on your background, impressive, I am sure you are aware of this.

Hypertrophy Cluster Set Training

Dr Jonathan Oliver is one of the leading researchers in this area. Oliver wanted to find a method that increased muscle mass without affecting Strength and Power; possibly a training method that did all three.

Oliver research found that Cluster Sets increased muscle mass (not as well as Traditional Bodybuilding Hypertropy) while maintaining and/or increasing Power and Strength.

Here what he determined...

1) Compensatory Acceleration: Each Rep in the Cluster needs to be performed explosively. Doing so, work the Type IIa Fast Twitch and Type IIb "Super" Fast Muscle Fiber; which are the foundation for Power, Strength and increasing Muscle Mass.

2) Determinate Factor of Custer Repetition: Power is one the primary factor in determining the number Reps in a Cluster.

A dramatic decrease in Power means you have exhausted the Fast Twitch Muscle Fiber and shifted to working the Slow Twitch; the Size Principle.

The Repetition Sweet Spot for Power and Strength is between 1 - 6 Reps Per Cluster.

Oliver found that for Hypertrophy Cluster Set Training with 6 Rep Cluster with short Rest Periods of around 15 seconds with moderately high loads worked; loads that fall into the Bodybuilding Hypertrophy Training Protocol Percentage, 60 to 85% of 1 Repetition Max worked.

Occlustion/Cluster Set Training

As you probably know, the Training Percentages dramatically drop with Occlusion Training to between 20 to 50% of 1 Repetition Max.

So, I don't see Oliver's 60 to 85% of 1 Repetition Training Percentage working for "Occlusion/Cluster Set Training.

Your Occlusion/Cluster Set Training is a fascination concept. If you do it, please post what you found out.

- With these light loads how quickly will muscle adaptation make this strategy ineffective?

I don't know. I haven't seen anything on this and don't have any personal experience in this area.

INTRA-SET REST INTERVALS IN HYPERTROPHIC TRAINING: EFFECTS ON HYPERTROPHY, STRENGTH, POWER, AND MYOSIN HEAVY CHAIN COMPOSITION
https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/13642159.pdf

The above is Oliver' Dissertation on Hypertrophy Cluster Set Training.

Kenny Croxdale
 
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Diet Drinks

I find having some Diet Powerade help quince my sweet tooth.

However, there are articles that Diet Drinks can spike blood sugar, insulin.

None of my reading have shown that a Diet Drink increases my blood sugar number.
Would be interested in seeing more on this, as the articles I've come across on this topic seem to indicate artificial sweeteners do not stimulate insulin (and thus do not spike blood sugar).
Do Artificial Sweeteners Cause an Insulin Spike?

(Follow-up article describing the ill-effects of artificial sweeteners on the gut biome, which scientists are just beginning to fully understand the role gut bacteria have in our health, fat metabolism, etc.)

Apologies if this takes us off-topic: but whether something stimulates an insulin/glucose response is critical to getting in/staying in keto, so the status of artificial sweeteners in diet soda and other diet drinks is hopefully still relevant to the topic.
 
Would be interested in seeing more on this, as the articles I've come across on this topic seem to indicate artificial sweeteners do not stimulate insulin (and thus do not spike blood sugar).
Do Artificial Sweeteners Cause an Insulin Spike?

I found article that stated artificial sweeteners did and didn't.

The only way for me to know how it affected me was to purchase the Glucometer and find out.

(Follow-up article describing the ill-effects of artificial sweeteners on the gut biome, which scientists are just beginning to fully understand the role gut bacteria have in our health, fat metabolism, etc.)

I found information that the artificial sweeteners have a negative impact on gut bacteria, as well. I believe the artificial sweeteners probably disrupt gut bacteria.

The Diet Powerade help me maintain the Ketogenic Diet. I am a weak person in this area. It's a crutch for me. :)

Apologies if this takes us off-topic: but whether something stimulates an insulin/glucose response is critical to getting in/staying in keto, so the status of artificial sweeteners in diet soda and other diet drinks is hopefully still relevant to the topic.

Great point, it is very much on topic.

Kenny Croxdale
 
As an example, let's say a marathon runner that weights 150 lbs has 10% body fat.

That equates to 15 lbs of fat (150 lbs X 10%).

That mean have 52, 500 kcals of ketone fuel in their Gas Tank.

Seriously? Are you saying all this fat will be used as ketones?
And, yes, I get it.....even lean people have enough blubber on them to fuel periods of little food or endurance events. The bulk of energy will come from fatty acid, a percentage from ketones but not all of it......and of that ketone production a greater percentage of it fuel the brain. (ketosis v ketogenesis).
That's my understanding, willingly open to be proved utterly wrong.....


Keto Adapted Athletes have enough glucose but can't access it well enough to use it.

not great for short, fast explosive power work like a snatch test, then? Or testing on Simple.

I'd argue for all round athleticism, - and health - you need to, or rather it is more desirable to, purr along on fat at low intensity - if that includes some ketone use, so be it. But for higher intensity? You don't need to train lactate extensively, as we know, but it will come in handy. If you can do X work whilst not tapping into too much lactate, great but if you need to whack out a lot of sustained power, you'd better train it to some extent.....if that is a goal or for sport specific needs.
And - even in the oxidative energy system we can and do use glucose at higher intensities. It is entirely possible to be fat adapted and use fat at higher intensities, yes but it is also not a problem to fuel that higher intensity with glucose.
Would you rather bonk or finish the job?.....and back to the op's question....S&S is not an endurance event.
I get it though, life is. The fact that you can fuel S&S on a daily basis with a lower influence of glucose fuel does not mean that you need to be keto-adapted. A point I've failed to make, and probably still not managing very well to make!

And just to clarify: good insulin sensitivity, healthy metabolism, low to moderate carb intake results in fat burning at rest and/or at low to moderate intensity.
This state need not be ketotic but it could be. You do not need the ketogenic diet to achieve a low insulin fat burning state.....in reply to the op's question.
 
Definitely getting off topic maybe, but I've always been interested in figuring out from a layman's perspective just what the chemical reactions are going into the Kreb's Cycle that differentiate Pyruvate from ketone bodies, from Fatty Acids.

My understanding is probably incorrect in some respects, but close enough to visualize anyway. Was just writing this out for my own understanding but maybe this adds something to the discussion.

The Kreb's Cycle (Citric Acid Cycle - mitochondrial respiration) can only use acetyl CoA (acetyl coenzyme A) to produce ATP for muscle energy. This is how the mitochodria create energy primarily for use by slow twitch muscle and as an initial donor of ATP to help recharge the CrP (Phosphagen) energy supply - fast twitch high throughput energy source. Fast twitch also make use of ATP from initial stage of Glycolysis.

The Phosphagen pathway has the fewest number of reactions to recharge ATP, it peaks in a second or two and provides ATP for 10-20 seconds tops. 1/3 of the Phosphagen reaction is dedicated to speeding up glycolysis - Pyruvate levels always increase at the onset of strong effort if there is sufficient glucose present.

Glycolysis is a slower reaction though not by much, takes about 10 seconds to ramp up to full speed, peetering out after a couple minutes at top output. It produces ATP short term, and pyruvate for oxidative phosphorylation (fancy way of describing the regeneration of ATP aerobically). In some circles the onset of glycolysis is viewed as a failure mode, but one could just as easily view the Phosphagen system as a stop-gap till the glycolytic system reaches full output. The same muscle fibers use both fuels - it is how they are mechanically trained that seems to make the most difference from an adaptive standpoint.

The body is capable of generating pyruvate much faster than the rate of uptake. In the absence of oxygen (exceeding steady state mitochondrial uptake) the pyruvate ferments into lactate, which among other things acts as a buffer for continued high throughput glycolysis.

At the start of Glycolysis, some ATP is produced for immediate fast twitch tissue and pyruvic acid is formed. The Pyruvate can be processed through the Kreb's Cycle to make more ATP, but this process requires another breakdown product from Pyruvate - oxaloacetate. Without this, acetyl CoA cannot be produced.

Fatty Acids are broken down by Beta oxidation to form acetyl CoA . This is a relatively slow reaction but yields plenty of ATP. I am not clear on why fast twitch tissue cannot make use of ATP generated aerobically, or if it is just a matter of location and supply - mitochondria are not present in high enough density in close enough proximity to supply power for fast twitch muscles.There seems to be several mechanisms at work, as mitochondrial density in strength athletes biopsies reliably show a decrease relative to untrained people.

Ketone bodies are created as part of gluconeogenesis as liver glucose stores are used up. The liver cannot use ketone Bodies for fuel but most other tissues can. Ketone Bodies are water soluble. They pass cell membranes at much higher rate than Fatty Acids, give an ATP recharge rate closer to Pyruvate (though still somewhat slower), are converted to acetyl CoA and used by the mitochondria. The Ketone Body that can be used in the Kreb's Cycle degrades spontaneously into acetone, a very small amount is lost in this manner. It can be converted to a stable Ketone body (reversible process) but this form cannot be directly used in the Kreb's Cycle and the conversion uses approx 30% of the potential ATP output.

The liver can make many ketones from fatty acids with very little energy expenditure. Estimates of keeping up with steady state athletics for several hours at above the base rate for Fatty Acid oxidation. At the competitive level, carb loaded athletes are capable of higher energy output, but fully adapted ketogenic athletes can operate at reasonably high intensities.
 
Oliver found that for Hypertrophy Cluster Set Training with 6 Rep Cluster with short Rest Periods of around 15 seconds with moderately high loads worked; loads that fall into the Bodybuilding Hypertrophy Training Protocol Percentage, 60 to 85% of 1 Repetition Max worked.

This one is easy, chin-up clusters for biceps, triceps I'll have to figure out. Thanks for the link on Oliver's study


Your Occlusion/Cluster Set Training is a fascination concept. If you do it, please post what you found out.

I'll have to study this and think it through. I'm a little bit leary about using a tourniquet type device to stifle blood flow to the muscle. It seems counter intuitive to purposely pool blood in any tissue. My gut tells me no but maybe after more research on it I'll get brave enough to do something.

One question.. Why wouldn't I be able to blend these two strategies? Meaning that if I opted for the chin-up clusters while using the occlusion strategy it should not be a problem to produce a good pump at say 6,5,4,3 rep sets with 15 sec rest intervals for say 3 clusters. The only thing I can think of being a problem would be a 'deadening' and loss of power in the occluded muscle fibers and therefore not workable.

Perhaps I'm just thinking out loud here. It may just come down to experimentation..

Thanks
 
I'll have to study this and think it through. I'm a little bit leary about using a tourniquet type device to stifle blood flow to the muscle. It seems counter intuitive to purposely pool blood in any tissue. My gut tells me no but maybe after more research on it I'll get brave enough to do something.

Pretty sure they recommend a modest restriction. A bit of stretch band would work well enough.

I find myself doing some unintentional restriction methods when I mix upper and lower body sandbag lifts with the load across my upper back and arms bent to steady the load. Having the weight across the shoulders and arms flexed tight actually produces a pooling pump in the biceps and forearms immediately following a set of upper body.

The research on occlusion training is interesting - it works but is no miracle. A strategy for peripheral isolation work - just as you envision.
 
further beef with this keto thing.....

now I absolutely know no one here is saying this and absolutely know @kennycro@@aol.com has stated on numerous occasions that he does not advocate the ketogenic diet, even though it is something he does himself for his own medical condition.

This is the tag line from a Dr Mercola and his book, fat for fuel:

Fat for Fuel: A Revolutionary Diet to Combat Cancer, Boost Brain Power, and Increase Your Energy...

Quite a claim!!
Make sure your oncologist gets a copy.

Imagine a world where stage 4 lymphoma could be treated with an avocado, where being in ketosis gave you the mental clarity to solve global poverty and all that beta-hydroxybutyrate increased your energy so much that you could use that extra energy to get up off your arse .....
This is where the keto madness takes you. The keto narrative sits very well in our post truth era where everything is real, where reality is shifted so far that everything remains unchecked, accepted and normalised. Fiction is fact, don't let the truth get in the way of a good story.....or profit margins, for that matter.

If it said: Fat for fuel, one way to lose fat by creating a calorie deficit, thus combating obesity and increasing your energy, fair enough.

But no, add all sorts of stuff to support some...some...research that supports the use of a ketogenic diet for certain medical conditions and chuck it all together.

Not against his book per se but of Mercola generally:
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/?s=mercola&category_name=&submit=Search

....and on the subject of cancer:
Ketogenic diet does not “beat chemo for almost all cancers”

And then a little detour and pop over to Mark's Daily Apple (who also has a ketogenic book out)....

it states:
In type 1 diabetics who experience reduced cognitive function when their blood sugar is low, increasing ketone production via medium chain triglycerides (found in coconut oil) restores it.

The Definitive Guide to Keto | Mark's Daily Apple

.....do I need to provide a link?..diabetic ketoacidosis is an effing serious threat to life.

and then this:
In cancer patients, a keto diet preserves lean mass and causes fat loss.

Don't want to be fat and have cancer, now, do we? That's a step too far.....

I'm sure I'm not the only one affected by cancer. Friends and family have died, some have recovered after a long illness under the care of a dedicated medical and health care team. Having cancer is a bummer but at least you will look buff, eh! Don't ever have cancer and get fat. But worry not, the ketogenic diet will step in and cure everything.
My friend is a type 1 diabetic who is now blind. Unchecked blood ketones, low blood sugar and a tad too much insulin will kill him. He doesn't keep any coconuts handy, perhaps he should.

Yet amongst all this nonsense is the guide, it turns out it it isn't really the ketogenic diet at all. And that's (my) the point.....

It's a shame for all those diligent research scientists eeking out the mechanisms of human physiology to gain understanding of disease states and how that can be applied to help people. Instead, the understanding is chucked into a big steaming pot of paleo lifestyle guff to market a book which is just another diet book.

Ketosis, intermittent fasting, low carb and a moderate view of mostly eating good wholesome food IS NOT the ketogenic diet. I really want to hammer that point.
It is easy to think that they are, partly just due to the word 'keto' being employed as a catch-all term.

There is a point where frivolous nonsense about avocado, spirullina and bird food cross-over to give false hope to people with serious physical and mental health concerns. I enjoy a good laugh at vacuous celebrity fad diets but the laughing has to stop when a line is crossed.

I have no vested and special interests in this at all. I have read many urinalysis from the piss of an acute psychiatric admission ward and been professionally involved with the inevitable slow death of ketotic young women with eating disorders. As an adaptive strategy to prolong life ketosis is, perhaps, the reason why we've made it this far. It can also be maladaptive response, initiating a fear response to avoid food in the belief that you will get fat.

Of course, we're not talking undereating and eating disorders, we're talking overeating and obesity. And we're not public health specialists on the advisory board of WHO yet each of us has at least some level of responsibility to do no harm.
Whether that be from an inner morality or from a professional standard or both.

We discuss a lot of the physical effects of diet - muscle, fat loss, metabolism - little of mental health. A balanced diet in my book addresses mood as much as it does food.
A healthy approach to food, not too much, not too little, recognising that sometimes you may not make the ideal and it is ok, more than ok.

For a very long read on the complexity of obesity published last week:

Making progress on the global crisis of obesity and weight management

....there is no need for extremes, that's all. None.



 
Seriously? Are you saying all this fat will be used as ketones?
And, yes, I get it.....even lean people have enough blubber on them to fuel periods of little food or endurance events. The bulk of energy will come from fatty acid, a percentage from ketones but not all of it......and of that ketone production a greater percentage of it fuel the brain. (ketosis v ketogenesis).

Ketones For Fuel

As we've discussed, Keto Adapted individual are efficient at breaking down body fat and using them for fuel.

Oxidative Energy System athletes energy will come from ketones; but not all of it.

not great for short, fast explosive power work like a snatch test, then? Or testing on Simple.

ATP Energy System

Adinosine Triphosphate is used for Power and Limit Strength (1 Repetition Max).

The ATP Energy System is a "Shooting Star", depleted in 30 seconds.

However, the majority of APT is pretty much depleted in around 15 seconds. Power drop like a rock after 15 seconds.

Complete ATP restoration take around 3 minutes of rest or longer.

APT Refueling

Dr Greg Haff's research found that up to 79% of ATP can be restored to muscle in around 45 seconds.

Which brings us to...

Power Cluster Set Training

Short rest period between between repetition of let's say Power Cleans, allow athletes to maintain Power Output.

Power Clean Example

135 lb X 2, rest 45 seconds, 135 lb X 2, rest 45 seconds, 135 lb X 2, rest 45 seconds, 135 lb X 2, rest 45 seconds, 135 lb X 2, rest 45 seconds.

Stop. Rest 3 minutes and repeat.

This method allows you to maintain Power Output. ATP is restored to the Fast Twitch Muscle Fiber, their fuel source.

If you were to preform a Set of 10 Repetition non-stop, Power Output would begin to drop around you second or third rep. By the tenth rep, Power Output is in the toilet.

That because the Fast Twitch Muscle Fiber aren't firing; you are relying on the Slow Twitch Muscle Fiber.

in the oxidative energy system we can and do use glucose at higher intensities.

Oxidative Energy System Athletes

Let use Marathon Runner as an example. It is not a high intensity event.

The majority of it is preformed at a lower intensity; ketones are the primary energy source for Keto Adapted Athletes, glucose is spared and kept in reserve.

The fact that you can fuel S&S on a daily basis with a lower influence of glucose fuel does not mean that you need to be keto-adapted.

High Intensity Training/Sports

The fuel source is ATP, as you noted, High Intensity isn't dependent on glucose and you don't need to be Keto Adapted.

The information that I posted pertained to individual how Keto Adapted Athletes (like myself) need to train for optimal results; by passing the Glycolytic Energy System.

And just to clarify: good insulin sensitivity, healthy metabolism, low to moderate carb intake results in fat burning at rest and/or at low to moderate intensity

Yes. However, Glycolitic Energy System Athletes are going to need to consume more carbohydrates.

This state need not be ketotic but it could be. You do not need the ketogenic diet to achieve a low insulin fat burning state

No, you don't need to be on a Ketogenic Diet to achieve low insulin. Consuming around 300 gram or less of high fiber, low glycemic index/insulin index carbohydrates works for most.

Insulin Resistant individual may need to consumer a lower number or carbohydrates. My wife is Insulin Resistant. Her carbohydrate threshold is between 100 to 200 gram per day.

Kenny Croxdale
 
Thank you @kennycro@@aol.com ....from different perspectives, we are on the same page. Appreciate your insights. What can I say, I'm a sprinter....bananas for me.
 
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