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Kettlebell The Past Two Days

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Steve W.

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This may not be of interest to anyone and may be more appropriate for a training journal, but I don't really keep a training journal and never have, unless I am working through a specific bus bench style program.

Background:
Before quarantine, I was very inconsistent in my training, but was regularly playing about 3 hours of full-court basketball once a week. From the beginning of quarantine in the second week of March until the first week in August, I got zero exercise other than short walks with the dog, so about 5 months of inactivity. I'm closing in on 56 years old so layoffs are a little harder to bounce back from than when I was younger.

Saturday:
Snatches on the 3:00
28kg x 10 reps x 2 sets
32kg x 5 x 4
28kg x 10 x 6

I'm really liking 10 x 10 on the 3:00 as a format. My last snatch session in this format was 4 sets with 28kg and the rest with 26kg. So my plan was just to do all 10 sets with 28kg. But the first couple of sets felt strong, and I decided to see how 32 felt. This was first time since before quartantine that I snatched the 32. Sets of 5 were comfortable and strong, but I'm not ready to do multiple sets of 10 with it. And while a 3 minute interval works nicely with sets of 10, it is really too long for sets of 5. I considered continuing to use the 32 for sets of 5, but felt like that would actually be making the session too easy and too different from what I planned unless I adjusted the time intervals, so after a couple of sets on each arm, I resumed with 28 x 10.

Power Pushups (044 timing)
10/2 x 4 series

Sunday:
High rep clubbell session while watching NFL games:

2-Arm Pendulum
45lbs x 5 reps x 12 sets (60 reps)

2-Arm Mill
35lbs x 5/5 x 10 sets (100 reps)
*5/5 = 5 reps in each direction

1-Arm Mill
25lbs x 2(10R/10L) x 10 sets (400 reps)
*2(10R/10L) = 4 continuous sets, switching arms on the fly every 10 reps

1-Arm Reverse Mill
20lbs x 2(10R/10L) x 10 sets (400 reps)

If you're not familiar with clubbells, that might not mean much, but it's a significant work output.

Anyway, it was a very satisfying couple of days, since I feel like I'm back to a reasonable baseline level after a long layoff.
 
I always enjoy your posts whether on Dan's or this place and was curious if you were still playing hoop. Your workouts were like your Giants, dormant for 5 months. :)

I'm really impressed in regard to the heavy snatching. I've given up on that piece. The risk of elbow tendonitis is too much for me. I like using the 20 kg for that as a fellow 50 year old.
 
I always enjoy your posts whether on Dan's or this place
Thank you -- I really appreciate that.

was curious if you were still playing hoop.
Not since Covid hit. The Friday afternoon open gym I have always run at the school where I teach is not allowed this year. Public courts are back open, but I'm still staying away. The infection rate in my area has been low for a while since we shut down last March, but is starting to climb back up.

Your workouts were like your Giants, dormant for 5 months. :)
For the Giants its been more like 5 years...and counting.

I'm really impressed in regard to the heavy snatching. I've given up on that piece. The risk of elbow tendonitis is too much for me. I like using the 20 kg for that as a fellow 50 year old.
I feel like I have my snatch form dialed in to where it's very elbow and shoulder friendly. But I kind of hate making comments like that because I disagree with the attitude of, "If you get hurt it's your fault -- you're just not doing it right," and I don't want to seem like I'm implying anything of the sort.
 
I feel like I have my snatch form dialed in to where it's very elbow and shoulder friendly.

I'm curious as to what would cause elbow issues with heavy snatches.

I always thought all you need is ensure proper lockout at the top and full extension at the bottom, to protect the biceps as well.

Is there more to it that I'm missing?

I have limited first hand experience with high-rep snatches but they are in my immediate future. I'm currently ramping up my Q&D snatches with 20K.
 
Ive been thinking about doing a plan 015 format with snatches.
Set of snatches every three minutes 10 x 10. Alternate hands each set.
5 x 10 each hand.
Is this similar to what you’re talking about?
 
I'm curious as to what would cause elbow issues with heavy snatches.

I always thought all you need is ensure proper lockout at the top and full extension at the bottom, to protect the biceps as well.

Is there more to it that I'm missing?

I have limited first hand experience with high-rep snatches but they are in my immediate future. I'm currently ramping up my Q&D snatches with 20K.
Those are two important factors.

Like I said, I don't find snatches to be hard on the elbows, but anything that stresses the grip and yanks on the arm can potentially cause elbow problems, and there are a lot of form points (often with subtle nuances) that can aggravate, mitigate or avoid those problems. Here are a few quick ones, many of which overlap or are interrelated.

--As mentioned, not catching the bell at full extension in the lockout or at the bottom.
--Not progressing slowly enough to allow for physical adaptation to the stress.
--Dropping the bell with too much partial tension at the elbow.
--Casting the bell forward to initiate the drop (snatching "over a barrel")
--Letting the bell free fall with too loose an arm so the whole force of the drop hits at the bottom.
--Not counterbalancing the bell on the way down (standing too upright, not making space for the bell)
--Not getting the upper arm connected to the body early enough on the drop (lead with the elbow, snatch "through the rack").
--Not keeping the arm down and connected to the body long enough out of the hole/bending the arm too early/pulling with the arm.

There's a learning curve to really getting it dialed in and some people are going to run into problems along the way -- then they might not have the patience or desire to work through it, or they may have preexisting injuries or anatomical quirks, or other susceptibility -- some exercises are just not for some people, or are but only within certain load/volume/frequency parameters.
 
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Those are two important factors.

Like I said, I don't find snatches to be hard on the elbows, but anything that stresses the grip and yanks on the arm can potentially cause elbow problems, and there are a lot of form points (often with subtle nuances) that can aggravate, mitigate or avoid those problems. Here are a few quick ones, many of which overlap or are interrelated.

--As mentioned, not catching the bell at full extension in the lockout or at the bottom.
--Not progressing slowly enough to allow for physical adaptation to the stress.
--Dropping the bell with too much partial tension at the elbow.
--Casting the bell forward to initiate the drop (snatching "over a barrel")
--Letting the bell free fall with too loose an arm so the whole force of the drop hits at the bottom.
--Not counterbalancing the bell on the way down (standing too upright, not making space for the bell)
--Not getting the upper arm connected to the body early enough on the drop (lead with the elbow, snatch "through the rack").
--Not keeping the arm down and connected to the body long enough out of the hole/bending the arm too early/pulling with the arm.

There's a learning curve to really getting it dialed in and some people are going to run into problems along the way -- then they might not have the patience or desire to work through it, or they may have preexisting injuries or anatomical quirks, or other susceptibility -- some exercises are just not for some people.

Thanks Steve for the pointers... They are well received.

I was worried what might happen when I progress later to overspeed snatch eccentrics. My form is too jerky as it is now. It seems 1H swinging 40K was not enough to prep me for heavy snatches.
 
I was worried what might happen when I progress later to overspeed snatch eccentrics. My form is too jerky as it is now. It seems 1H swinging 40K was not enough to prep me for heavy snatches.

Maybe similar -- For me, 1H swinging 32 kg for thousands of reps was not enough to prep me for 24kg snatches. I could do a few, but they were problematic.

I had to regress to 16 and 20kg and do them totally differently than I had every done snatches before (even through SFG) -- removing the conditioning/speed/reps/sprint aspect completely. Focused, controlled, and with a pause in the lockout. Learning new lessons.

(It strikes me that Q&D does not allow for this exploration of the heavier snatch, sine it's focused on quick power. I might suggest, for many people, a few weeks of exploring the heavier snatch without the pressure of the program).

Then, it took quite a bit of time with 20kg and occasionally 24kg. Even then, I worked up in volume too quickly and tweaked my right biceps. This was in 2016 I think, doing A+A protocols. Back down and slowly back up... always making those fine tuning adjustments like @Steve W. describes.

Eventually I got up to significant volume with 24kg, even completing 200 snatches (A+A style -- 40 repeats of 5 approximately OTM) a few times.

Hang in there, it's a worthwhile journey!
 
Maybe similar -- For me, 1H swinging 32 kg for thousands of reps was not enough to prep me for 24kg snatches. I could do a few, but they were problematic.

I had to regress to 16 and 20kg and do them totally differently than I had every done snatches before (even through SFG) -- removing the conditioning/speed/reps/sprint aspect completely. Focused, controlled, and with a pause in the lockout. Learning new lessons.

(It strikes me that Q&D does not allow for this exploration of the heavier snatch, sine it's focused on quick power. I might suggest, for many people, a few weeks of exploring the heavier snatch without the pressure of the program).

Then, it took quite a bit of time with 20kg and occasionally 24kg. Even then, I worked up in volume too quickly and tweaked my right biceps. This was in 2016 I think, doing A+A protocols. Back down and slowly back up... always making those fine tuning adjustments like @Steve W. describes.

Eventually I got up to significant volume with 24kg, even completing 200 snatches (A+A style -- 40 repeats of 5 approximately OTM) a few times.

Hang in there, it's a worthwhile journey!

Really appreciate sharing these experiences, Anna.

I paid a close attention to Steve's cues during my snatch session today. They helped, but I realized that while I could do 5/4 with 20K, I should limit 10/2 series to 16K.

Now, you convinced me to back down even further. For several weeks at least, I'll do Q&D with 16K while preceding each session with a set of unpressured and explorative 20K or 24K snatches.
 
(It strikes me that Q&D does not allow for this exploration of the heavier snatch, sine it's focused on quick power. I might suggest, for many people, a few weeks of exploring the heavier snatch without the pressure of the program).

Hi, do you think Gtg could be useful or how would you structure those practices?

Eventually I got up to significant volume with 24kg, even completing 200 snatches (A+A style -- 40 repeats of 5 approximately OTM) a few times.

Congratulations!
 
Hi, do you think Gtg could be useful or how would you structure those practices?

Congratulations!

Thanks! Hmm... no, I would not say GTG. Warm-up is pretty important until the weight is really dialed in. So, more something like this for a training session where 24kg is the new and challenging snatch weight:
  • 5 minutes movement prep (OS resets, goblet squat/halo, etc.)
  • A few presses 16kg, maybe 2+2 rest, 2+2 rest. Stretch into and explore the lockout position.
  • 2-3 sets of 10 swings 2H 24kg, basically OTM or feeling recovered
  • 1-2 sets of 5 swings 1H 24kg, basically OTM or feeling recovered
  • 4-6 rounds (2-3 per side) 5 snatches with 16kg, basically OTM or feeling recovered, and alternating sides. Taking time with the reps, a few seconds in lockout. If 20kg is available, another 2-4 rounds (1-2 per side) of 5 snatches with it. If not, just focus on getting really powerful and fast with the 16kg snatches.
  • 10-12 rounds (5-6 per side) 5 snatches with 24kg, OTM or longer, until well recovered. If the weight is really heavy and challenging, do a 1H swing to start each set, and/or reduce the number of snatches in the set to 2, 3, or 4. Take your time in lockout. Make each and every rep count. Fine-tune as you go.
  • 4-6 rounds "backoff" (2-3 per side) 5 snatches with 16kg, focusing on speed and power. Can speed up the cadence a bit for these, but keep the lessons learned from the longer lockout and really nail that position.
That's a pretty decent session in itself, but can precede some other training scheduled for that day if you're used to the volume.

The same progression could be used for any weight -- just bump up each weight to whatever is relative to what you're working with.
 
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Thanks! Hmm... no, I would not say GTG. Warm-up is pretty important until the weight is really dialed in.

Totally agree.

I learned the hard way that GTGing any overhead movement in particular can lead to injury if warmup is ignored (at least for our age group). I stressed my right shoulder this way a few weeks ago.

That was really frustrating since I spent several months this year fixing my upper crossed syndrome which freed my left shoulder after years of clicking and clacking.

The only way I would GTG military presses or snatches is to warm up thoroughly before each set unless they are spaced no more than a few minutes apart.
 
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