Kettlebell The Snatch vs Clean and press

[Brandon Trahan]

So let me get this out of the way. I know Losing body fat is mainly due to diet. Pushing the table away. In the kitchen…

I also know there are so many factors here with everyone being different too…but this being a post and kind of making it a poll in a way…

Snatches for accelerated fat loss? Or clean and presses?

What’s your pick ?

 

[Mark Limbaga]

I usually say why not both..

The c and p has proven it's worth in packing on muscle

One discovery I found with the snatch is it is excellent in helping preserve muscle when on a deficit..

 

[watchnerd]

Both.

 

[Brandon Trahan]

I usually say why not both..

The c and p has proven it's worth in packing on muscle

One discovery I found with the snatch is it is excellent in helping preserve muscle when on a deficit..

Hell yea. I def Don’t need muscle packed on haha.

 

[Brandon Trahan]

Both.

Buttttttt if you had to choose……

 

[Brandon Trahan]

I usually say why not both..

The c and p has proven it's worth in packing on muscle

One discovery I found with the snatch is it is excellent in helping preserve muscle when on a deficit..

Ps yessss ! I wasnt Even on a deficit and doing neuperts KSK and people were like dang dude you been lifting? You look “more muscular”. So there’s that!

 

[watchnerd]

Buttttttt if you had to choose……

But you don't have to choose.

I'd alternate on different days.

In a deficit, you need to send a strong signal to your body to keep muscle, rather than pare it down.

Two exercises provides more unique stimulus than one and extends the adaptation curve.

 

[Brandon Trahan]

But you don't have to choose.

I'd alternate on different days.

In a deficit, you need to send a strong signal to your body to keep muscle, rather than pare it down.

Two exercises provides more unique stimulus than one and extends the adaptation curve.

Very true. Always tricking the body.

 

[GreeneMachine]

as you said the magic of fat loss occurs in the diet.

The purpose of strength training when trying to lose weight is to preserve muscle mass in a caloric deficit. You really don’t even want to damage your muscle. Hence, do the minimum required to achieve that goal. Literally, you could just do 10 hard DCPs total, set one bell down and do a few snatches per arm. And walk after.

If you want faster fat loss, be more aggressive with diet. I think “best workout for fat loss” is the wrong mindset.

Just my opinion on how to do it. Obviously success has been had a multitude of ways.

 

[Ege]

But you don't have to choose.

I'd alternate on different days.

In a deficit, you need to send a strong signal to your body to keep muscle, rather than pare it down.

Two exercises provides more unique stimulus than one and extends the adaptation curve.

Do you think a beginner also have to send a strong signal during a deficit to preserve muscle?

Or let me ask in an other way. During a deficit versus bulking periods hypertrophy protocols for you. How are they different if they are at all?

 

[conor78]

As mentioned above you could run both on alternate days. I have used KSK before and it definitely assisted with dropping some lbs. I have used CP only programs before Strong/ Giant etc. The only drawback to the CP in a density format for me was that it seemed to spike my hunger compared to snatch programs.

 

[Brandon Trahan]

As mentioned above you could run both on alternate days. I have used KSK before and it definitely assisted with dropping some lbs. I have used CP only programs before Strong/ Giant etc. The only drawback to the CP in a density format for me was that it seemed to spike my hunger compared to snatch programs.

s***, both programs (KSK and the giant) spike my hunger lol

 

[John K]

Snatches for accelerated fat loss? Or clean and presses?

What’s your pick ?

I definitely wouldn't pick one, and it has nothing to do about confusing anything. I just don't think picking one or the other will make much of a difference for losing fat, and having both will build (and preserve) different and complimentary physical qualities while you are dieting.

If you said that you were only going to do one exercise no matter what and all you cared about was losing fat/weight, I would probably pick the snatch, primarily because you have the potential for more work in a given session, or longer sessions. You could probably "make it work" with the C&P, but at that point I'd probably go more towards clean and jerks...

 

[Ege]

as you said the magic of fat loss occurs in the diet.

The purpose of strength training when trying to lose weight is to preserve muscle mass in a caloric deficit. You really don’t even want to damage your muscle. Hence, do the minimum required to achieve that goal. Literally, you could just do 10 hard DCPs total, set one bell down and do a few snatches per arm. And walk after.

If you want faster fat loss, be more aggressive with diet. I think “best workout for fat loss” is the wrong mindset.

Just my opinion on how to do it. Obviously success has been had a multitude of ways.

As a beginner and as 49 year old male who categories himself as a relatively easy muscle gainer, I experience/feel as if I don’t have to push the hypertrophy envelope for my self. Would you agree? ( some might disagree in any cases)

I don’t know if what I am trying to ask even make sense for any body.

Let me try to ask with an example.
My overarching goals are related to mobility and strength this year.

The diet that works for me is to eat a lot but only wholefoods, no flour, no sugar.

Loosing weight this way take longer than crash diets.

If my “diet” is going to take 6 months… I don’t want indeed to run hypertrophy protocol for 6 months. I want to cycle hypertrophy and strength/mobility programs.

Because I am a beginner, I hope this will be good enough to preserve muscle versus running 3-4 consecutive hypertrophy blocks.

What do you all think?

 

[GovernorSilver]

Since the goal is to lose weight, I'd say whichever exercise spikes your hunger the least.

Overeating because of hunger is a real thing.

 

[conor78]

s***, both programs (KSK and the giant) spike my hunger lol

From memory you train bjj as well.. same here…. You must have decent powers of recovery. I have upped Bjj to 3 days a week and had to shift to a park bench program… in saying that KSK is a brilliant program

 

[Ege]

s***, both programs (KSK and the giant) spike my hunger lol

That is a very important piece of the puzzle.

A decent hypertrophy program, smoke me as a beginner.

Indeed I have discovered that I put on muscle as a beginner almost regardless of what I do.

How feasible for a beginner to run a hypertrophy program during weight loss became a question mark to me.

No jokes, I put on muscle when I do crawls as a beginner if I am not on a calorie deficit.

Maybe I should not make cutting calories difficult for my self w trying to run decent hypertrophy programs at all? Maybe I should focus on strength and will keep muscles during caloric deficit as a beginner.

And yes. As a beginner, at a calorie deficit, loosing weight on scale, I gain strength in whatever exercise I do. Does not matter, absolute strength as well as relative to my bodyweight at age 49.

Ps: This can lead to an even larger than life discussion. Beginners might not even require to try to run hypertrophy programs which is in contradiction to many experts…

I am working on dead hangs with a water down version of GTG protocol that I stole from Naked Warrior which is a strength protocol. I am very satisfied with the hypertrophy in my forearms. Instead of a strength protocol, if I did run a hypertrophy protocol for my forearms, would they get bigger than even today? Or not ? I suspect that the difference could have been very little except the pain of hypertrophy protocol…. Again for a beginner …

 

[watchnerd]

Do you think a beginner also have to send a strong signal during a deficit to preserve muscle?

Or let me ask in an other way. During a deficit versus bulking periods hypertrophy protocols for you. How are they different if they are at all?

I haven't seen any studies on untrained lifters and caloric deficits, so I don't know. I'd just be making stuff up if I answered.

When I'm in a deficit, I don't use hypertrophy style programming; in a deficit I'm using either strength or power programming.

I save hypertrophy programming for when I'm in a surplus because it's a lot more effective to add muscle in a surplus, which is the whole point of hypertrophy programming.

 

[Brandon Trahan]

From memory you train bjj as well.. same here…. You must have decent powers of recovery. I have upped Bjj to 3 days a week and had to shift to a park bench program… in saying that KSK is a brilliant program

Yup. Bjj purple belt. Geoff just sent an article out about modifying his programs to 2 days a week instead of three based on certain lifestyles. Bjj being one of them for me. 3 days a week of a program leaves me beat up and struggle to recover and feel good.

 

[Anna C]

Snatches for accelerated fat loss? Or clean and presses?

What’s your pick ?

I would think much more in terms of programming, for fat loss -- reps, sets, rest, total work -- than what exercise to use. However some exercises lend themselves better to total work than others. In that respect, C&P can be done at somewhat high volume for short periods of time, with proper build-up (such as with ROP); however, I think I've seen more people be successful with volume with snatches; either light weight and lots of reps, or heavier and lots of repeats with rest (A+A).