Kettlebell The swing - how high does the kb really need to go?

[Anna C]

I think if you hammer home the hinge and plank positions, and make the student focus on using their chambering and hip snap to hit proper height, they'll eventually pick up how to sync up the timing themselves.

I agree!

 

[John Locke]

First off, I don't think your hip pushes are technically wrong, they just aren't as powerful. Hip pushes are probably OK in the early learning of swing technique when you're trying to develop the hinge and plank positions.
Your regular swings are overall more powerful. If you pause the swings the instant you hit full plank, the bell is at a higher point of the arc than when you do the hip push. All the work is done at that point. Once you hit plank, you are just waiting for the float.
You are also chambering your backswing deeper on your regular swings. You can see your fingers appear on the back swing, not on your hip pushes. This extra springing helps launch the bell out of the hinge.

Excuse me but I don't understand the point.
If you don't push whit your hips, how do you transfer movement to the bell assumed the arms are like ropes, so they only support passively the weight?

 

[Anna C]

Excuse me but I don't understand the point.
If you don't push whit your hips, how do you transfer movement to the bell assumed the arms are like ropes, so they only support passively the weight?

I saw this posted by SokolStrong (@sokolstrong) • Instagram photos and videos
The caption said "Drawing by @erblurton"

Using the drawings in the first line, can you see how the mechanics of the shoulders moving up and back is what launches the kettlebell forward? It's the force of hip and knee extension into the ground, moving the shoulders up and back. It goes up, then gravity and the connection to the arms pulls it back into the hinge as you move into that position again, "chambering" it for another upswing.

It is possible to do kettlebell swings with absolutely no contact between hips and forearms. I don't recommend it for general practice, because it's not something to avoid entirely -- but is a neat exercise to try with a light kettlebell so you can get the feel of the power transfer with no direct pushing action.
(Edit/Add: You can do this same exercise with a can of soup or literally any weight in your hand. It doesn't matter what it is. Practice the hip snap and see how high you can make it go by going from hinge to plank.).

 

[Papa Georgio]

Excuse me but I don't understand the point.
If you don't push whit your hips, how do you transfer movement to the bell assumed the arms are like ropes, so they only support passively the weight?

There is tension through the whole chain (arms to hips) that locks up. That connection transfers the energy.

The instance you hit plank, the tension in the arms is released, and at that point, are very much like ropes.

 

[Papa Georgio]

I do remember about this from S&S ...


And, I thought this passage from S&S would also be of value in this discussion...
View attachment 10157

I think that there can be value in playing with our ability to control a sharp and shortened acceleration with our lighter bells. i know i have a 35 lbs and 55lbs and the 35 is starting to fly very high in the swing . so i've been noting this idea this past week in my practice to play with the idea of not doing too much with the lighter bell.

Kime

Kind of like a lightning bolt of tension through your body. As in Karate, few master it, and you can spend a lifetime improving it.

 

[GeoffreyLevens]

the mechanics of the shoulders moving up and back is what launches the kettlebell forward? It's the force of hip and knee extension into the ground, moving the shoulders up and back.

There is tension through the whole chain (arms to hips) that locks up. That connection transfers the energy.

I've just been starting to "get" this and it's come from going heavy. Was swinging 44% bodyweight, my heaviest kb so recently built a core blaster. Now swinging 67% bw (after a couple weeks at 58%) and discovering all sorts of little glitches and power leaks that were just not noticeable at the lower weight.

 

[John Locke]

Using the drawings in the first line, can you see how the mechanics of the shoulders moving up and back is what launches the kettlebell forward? It's the force of hip and knee extension into the ground, moving the shoulders up and back. It goes up, then gravity and the connection to the arms pulls it back into the hinge as you move into that position again, "chambering" it for another upswing.

It is possible to do kettlebell swings with absolutely no contact between hips and forearms. I don't recommend it for general practice, because it's not something to avoid entirely -- but is a neat exercise to try with a light kettlebell so you can get the feel of the power transfer with no direct pushing action.
(Edit/Add: You can do this same exercise with a can of soup or literally any weight in your hand. It doesn't matter what it is. Practice the hip snap and see how high you can make it go by going from hinge to plank.).

There is tension through the whole chain (arms to hips) that locks up. That connection transfers the energy.

GOT IT
Very insightful for me, I totally missed this point.
Many thanks

 

[Steve Freides]

@kennycro@@aol.com, the kettlebell swing is taught along with the concept of the "volume control." (Credit to @Brett Jones for the volume control concept and name.) That means you can swing a sub-maximal load not only to the height of your choosing, but also varying the intensity at a given height. I agree that swinging a lighter weight to a less-than-maximum height might require starting to decelerate the bell sooner. It might also require snapping the hips less intensely.

The way most of us think of all this is pretty simple - we visualize/imagine how high we want the bell to go and where we want our volume control to be set at. And I think most of us who practice swings in sets of 10 are dialing there personal volume controls to about 7 or 8.

Speaking personally, I find my best swings are those when I think about directing the bell to the same place as I'm directly my gaze, which is usually the corner of the floor and wall a few yards in front of me. I really like the feeling of directing the bell forward and not letting it get too high, and also for me personally, I find I tend to unpack my shoulders when my swings get to parallel to the floor - that's my technique problem to fix, I realize.

-S-

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

swinging a lighter weight to a less-than-maximum height might require starting to decelerate the bell sooner.

Power

I am an advocate of Kettlebell Swings.

My post have been directed at developing Power through the full range of the movement and how to accomplish it.

 

[Brett Jones]

The "full range of movement" is the hips extending to the standing plank and the return to the loaded eccentric—the height of the KB is a "side effect"—just as a punch or kick can be delivered to different targets—you can direct the power of your swing at different "volumes" to different targets. The glutes and abs are the "sights" that allow you to target and direct your power.

The connection to the lats and a solid midsection are what transfers the power to the KB not a "push with the hips" etc....

For example...here I am on a force plate performing a two-arm swing with a 24kg KB and as you can see the float is just that...a float and expression of the power developed.


Just my 2cents worth...
And BTW... for efficient snatching you should be able to pop the KB to head level with good form.

 

[happyhd]

I've just been starting to "get" this and it's come from going heavy. Was swinging 44% bodyweight, my heaviest kb so recently built a core blaster. Now swinging 67% bw (after a couple weeks at 58%) and discovering all sorts of little glitches and power leaks that were just not noticeable at the lower weight.

Hyperextension

Leaning back is a common error. It places a great deal of stress on the lower back.

As you noted, individual do it so they can swing the Kettlebell higher.

The same hyperextension issue occur with other movement like the Deadlift and Back Raises.



The Kettlebell Swing Height

The height of the Kettlebell Swing is determined by the load.

The lighter the load, the higher the height of the Kettlebell Swing.

The heavier the load, the lower the height of the Kettlebell Swing.

Posterior Chain Kettlebell Swings

As with any exercise, optimal training effect is elicited when the movement is performed within the right training percentage of a 1 Repetition Max with the correct technique.

Kettlebells Swings For Power

The Kettlebell Swing is a Power Movement.

This article goes into the loads needed for developing Power with the Kettlebell Swing

Are Heavy Kettlebell Swings Better Than Deadlifts?

Are Heavy Kettlebell Swings Better Than Deadlifts?

Heavy kettlebell swings could be the best damn posterior chain exercise you're not doing, possibly even better than deadlifts! Here's why.

www.t-nation.com

Contreras' research determined that Heavy Kettlebell Swings are necessary for developing Power with the Kettlebell Swing.

That means performing Kettlebell Swing with with up you body weight. If you weight 200 lbs, some individual may be able to work up to Kettlebell Swing using a 200 lb Kettlebell.

One individual case study, that was posted on this site, indicted that performing a Kettlebell Swing with around one-third of you body weight was effective.

Base on Contreras's research and my personal experience, it appears that performing the Kettlebell Swing with one-third of your body weight is good starting point, with heavier loads increasing greater Power Output, dependent on your strength level.

The downside is that you'll have to take out a second mortgage on your house to afford a 200 lb Kettlebell.

However, there is a solution...

The Hungarian Core Blaster

Contreras' article provides information on how to make it.

The cost is around $20.00 worth of pipe from Lows and some standard 1 inch weight plates. It takes less than 5 minute to assemble it.

The nice thing about the Hungarian Core Blaster is the it's adjustable. You can increase of decrease the load, as you l

I've Hungarian Core Blaster for about 5 years. At a body weight of 194 lbs, I've worked to Swings with 170 lbs.

Zack Henderson's Stomach Height

Obviously, there is an inverse relationship in regard to the height of a Kettlebell Swing to the Kettlebell weight.

The apex of a good heavy Kettlebell Swing is going to be around the stomach area, as Henderson stated.

If you are able to Swing the Kettlebell any higher, that means the load is too light.

The Banded Alternative Kettlebell Swing

Plyometrics without Jumping

Plyometrics offer many benefits to athletes. It builds explosive power and neurological responsiveness that allows for change of direction…

medium.com

Dr Craig Marker's Banded Kettlebell Swing (video demonstration) shows you to how to increase the top end loading of the Kettlebell Swing with your current Kettlebells.

In the t-nation article linked to above there is a video of a woman doing what is called perfect kettlebell swings. Would you agree that we should bend/be drawn that much forward/downwards? Just curious.

 

[Anna C]

In the t-nation article linked to above there is a video of a woman doing what is called perfect kettlebell swings. Would you agree that we should bend/be drawn that much forward/downwards? Just curious.

I wouldn't recommend bending that far forward, no. StrongFirst hinge standards keep shoulders above hips. Also, StrongFirst swing standards have "no forward knee movement on the upswing", and hers do have some of that.

But having said that, I do think her swing is safe and effective. Just because it's not our method does not necessarily make it wrong. We just know our way works.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

In the t-nation article linked to above there is a video of a woman doing what is called perfect kettlebell swings.

T-Nation Article

My perspective is like Contreras' states, "...Since I'm not RKC-certified, I'm not quite as qualified as those folks to discuss kettlebell swing form."

However, I consider it more of a hybrid.

With that said, I'll defer to Mr Freides on this question

Kettlebell Swing Variation

Like any exercise movement, varying the movement, varies the muscle involved in the movement.

Hamstring Focus

Preforming a Swing with less break in the knees (Squatting back into the the movement) place more of the work hamstring, as well as working the glutes.

Squat Style Hinge

This style was mentioned in Contreras' article. However, no example was provide.

This movement means you Squat (sit back) into the movement. This method places more of the workload on the glutes and quads, less on the hamstrings.

To reiterate, the video demo with the woman, from my perspective, appear to be more of a hybrid movement

Training Objective

Your training objective is one of the primary factors in exercise selection.

For more hamstring work, more of a straight leg swing (slight break in the knees) is what you want.

For more quad work, Squatting back and down into the movement is more effective.

The glues are engage with both movements

 

[NormanOsborn]

For what it's worth: the vast majority of my Swings with the 32 are at chest height. Sometimes I'll Swing to head height if I'm feeling particularly strong. Swinging a bell to my waist would feel like doing half-reps on a barbell exercise like Squats or Bench.