This, uh, heart rate thing, and zones, and averages

offwidth

Level 9 Valued Member
I've been using a Polar HR monitor lately in my training as well. I think you may need to adjust the settings - its calculated HR max for me is considerably lower than the maxes I've been regularly hitting in training.
Steve was talking about his HRM's measured HR, not the calculated HRmax. (If I'm not mistaken) So, settings don't enter into it.

And as an aside, for those folks interested in zone based training... the only way to determine HRmax is to test it...
Have fun with that one...
 

Bret S.

Level 6 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
I'm fine - went out again yesterday weighing 230 in total for 1 mile, about to go out again today with Saturday's weight for a longer outing.
Be careful please, going out on the ruck I listed earlier started a domino effect which left me in a pinch, too much stress and pushing three bars at once is a recipe for problems I'm still learning.

If your stress level is fairly low and training is steady Eddy then you should be fine.

The Inman Mile is pretty well insane in my view. Of course DFYU is my new mantra..
Andy Kirkpatrick | D.F.Y.U
 

Boris Bachmann

Level 5 Valued Member
Steve was talking about his HRM's measured HR, not the calculated HRmax. (If I'm not mistaken) So, settings don't enter into it.

And as an aside, for those folks interested in zone based training... the only way to determine HRmax is to test it...
Have fun with that one...
He mentioned zones and perceived effort. If the calculated heart rate max is off, so will the zones. That's all I'm saying. Some approximation is going to be necessary, of course.
 

Al Ciampa

Level 7 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
I don’t understand what’s going on here. HR response is totally individual. The number doesn’t really mean much, so why guess someone else’s response? The point of HR is for training to help maintain the goal intensity, whether that’s MAF, LT, VO2MAX or whatever. It can also be helpful with pacing in longer races to avoid going out too hard and burning matches too early. Nasal breathing or the talk test can be misleading, as that capability can be developed with practice at higher heart rates.
I’d argue that the point of HR training is to lower it through training. And your proposal.
 

Al Ciampa

Level 7 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
Yes it does vary by individual, but it does indicate meaningful things... sometimes several things at once (some up, some down) which can be misleading. But in a general sense, the amount of work one can do at a given HR using steady state aerobics CAN be indicative of aerobic base / aerobic fitenss / cardiovascular health. I submitted in my previous post that rucking with 70 lbs is not purely "steady state aerobics" so there are other factors ... but it still mostly is.



True, but that's so that you can train within your own capability, so that you adapt and change in the desired ways, which in this case are usually "greater aerobic fitness." So things do change over time -- namely, as you train at the correct intensity like MAF, you get to be able to do more work at the same HR.



Agree.
I see that you beat me to it, lass.
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
I’d like to see less of a HR response to this activity.
I agree. I'm working on building up some distance/fitness/tolerance with these relatively moderate weights, and am hoping to see my HR go down over time.

What's interesting to me is to see such a relatively high HR on the little graph the Polar app provides and not to have found it tiring. I had no idea how all this works/worked and still don't.

Looks like my guess was pretty good. :)

I think the HR is higher because of the weight. You're basically doing a continuous farmer's carry with 2 x 16kg. This is load bearing (if not "lifting") and will bring the HR up accordingly. HR increases while lifting (grinds, get-ups, etc.) are driven by different things than they are during aerobic steady-state, and breathing won't necessarily correspond to heart rate. When rucking with as much weight as you were, you are basically doing both types of exercise at the same time.
You do, indeed, get the prize for the most accurate prediction! I certainly wouldn't have guessed as high as it was.

This is base-building training, so I'm planning on spending some time and accumulating some volume at about this weight, and hoping I adapt, e.g., I'm hoping that being able to comfortably cover 3 - 5 miles at this weight, around 100 kg total, will provide a foundation for completing 1 mile at around 175 kg total, which is what my event requires.

-S-
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
I've been using a Polar HR monitor lately in my training as well. I think you may need to adjust the settings - its calculated HR max for me is considerably lower than the maxes I've been regularly hitting in training.
Done that. The max it has stored for me is the max its every measured for me, which is a good bit higher than the age-predicted number.

-S-
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
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If your stress level is fairly low and training is steady Eddy then you should be fine.
As mentioned previously, I was able to carry on a relaxed conversation with my wife the entire time, I had a huge day rest-of-life-not-lifting day on Sunday, and felt ready to go at it again yesterday, Monday, which I did, for a shorter distance but with a bit more weight in the pack. And today, the computer tells me I walked 5.7 miles, most of it with an empty backpack, and the last mile carrying about 40 lbs. of groceries.

I feel fine - good, even. Did some one-arm, one-leg plank holds and some light, two-hands, one-leg barbell deadlifts before I went out, and some bw-only windmills along the route. I'll check my pulse and BP tonight before I go to sleep - it's been in the upper 40's lately.

-S-
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
I like what @Al Ciampa said, and that's how I look at it. My goal is to be able to repeat some of these early training session - my event will be in the Fall or Winter - later on and see a lower heart rate.

But what @vegpedlr said has merit as an approach, too - keep the effort the same but be able to do more.

I think it's also worth mentioning that there are "newbie gains" to be had here - the last time I trained for this event was five years ago, and I feel like I'm making rapid progress now as I get into doing this. I fully expect that my rapid progress won't continue in this way but I'm enjoying things right now. E.g., today I walked 5.7 miles - I haven't walked more than 3 miles in years, maybe decades, maybe a few decades. I felt fine during the walk, I feel fine now, and I'm planning on a strength training session tomorrow.

This idea that strength helps everything - I'm a big fan. My subjective impression of my current training is that it's going well because I am pretty strong compared to what I'd be if I hadn't been doing all this deadlifting and one-arm pushup-ing and work on the rings and whatnot.

-S-
 

Bret S.

Level 6 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
This idea that strength helps everything - I'm a big fan. My subjective impression of my current training is that it's going well because I am pretty strong compared to what I'd be if I hadn't been doing all this deadlifting and one-arm pushup-ing and work on the rings and whatnot.
Yes, totally agree, and as mentioned before by others, widening the aerobic base along with the strength base is the ultimate.. the wider the base, the higher you can peak off of it. Strength base and aerobic base seem to energize each other, where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

Best of luck in this endeavor Steve, please keep posting on it, I like to keep tabs on what the other old f***s are doing. ROFL:D
 

Al Ciampa

Level 7 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
But what @vegpedlr said has merit as an approach, too - keep the effort the same but be able to do more
The trouble with this thinking is, and I think that observational data confirms, training higher and expecting more doesn’t pan out for most mortals. You have to train easier as you get fitter, to do more later. Strong Endurance touches upon some of your surprise of the results.

For the Inman mile, I’d recommend you do a ton of jogging around 115-120 coupled with what you’re already doing. Anyone from our Center could and would, by experience, agree. I know that you don’t have a ton of time to jog, however.
 

offwidth

Level 9 Valued Member
I like what @Al Ciampa said, and that's how I look at it. My goal is to be able to repeat some of these early training session - my event will be in the Fall or Winter - later on and see a lower heart rate.

But what @vegpedlr said has merit as an approach, too - keep the effort the same but be able to do more.

I think it's also worth mentioning that there are "newbie gains" to be had here - the last time I trained for this event was five years ago, and I feel like I'm making rapid progress now as I get into doing this. I fully expect that my rapid progress won't continue in this way but I'm enjoying things right now. E.g., today I walked 5.7 miles - I haven't walked more than 3 miles in years, maybe decades, maybe a few decades. I felt fine during the walk, I feel fine now, and I'm planning on a strength training session tomorrow.

This idea that strength helps everything - I'm a big fan. My subjective impression of my current training is that it's going well because I am pretty strong compared to what I'd be if I hadn't been doing all this deadlifting and one-arm pushup-ing and work on the rings and whatnot.

-S-
But to be fair... I would wager that if you hadn't been strength training for as long as you have been, and had replaced that with say... walking 5 miles a day for that same length of time (or running) you would feel equally fine!

The flip side of course is not true... :)
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
For the Inman mile, I’d recommend you do a ton of jogging around 115-120 coupled with what you’re already doing. Anyone from our Center could and would, by experience, agree. I know that you don’t have a ton of time to jog, however.
Would you settle for walking with a weight that kept my heart rate in that range? For me, walking and running don't get along, by which I mean that when I run regularly, I don't enjoy walking and don't do it well, and the converse is also true - when I walk a lot, I don't particularly enjoy running and my form also suffers.

I've done a little math, and walking with an additional 40 lbs. brings me to 50% of my total Inman weight, and my guess is that walking with 40 lbs. will get me to the heart range you've suggested. Today, I walked for about 2 hours, just under 6 miles. I can see doing that with a 40 lb pack a few weeks from now.

-S-
But to be fair... I would wager that if you hadn't been strength training for as long as you have been, and had replaced that with say... walking 5 miles a day for that same length of time (or running) you would feel equally fine!
I don't think so. Carrying a pile of weight on your back requires strength, and walking 100 miles a day still won't have you have ready to carry 100 lb. for 1 mile.

Lastly, I must add something that profoundly effects my thinking on this event. It's not an endurance event. It's a _lift_, in a 70-page rule book with hundreds of different lifts in it. I think it's best thought of that way primarily. It takes strength and then the strength to endure.

-S-
 

offwidth

Level 9 Valued Member
I don't think so. Carrying a pile of weight on your back requires strength, and walking 100 miles a day still won't have you have ready to carry 100 lb. for 1 mile.
Of course, but I wasn't referring to that. I was referring to your 5.7 miles with a mostly empty backpack...
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
Yes, more of that in the bank before I started this training would have been helpful, I agree. My thinking about this is that I'm going to progress up to 10 mile walks with a light load, perhaps the above-mentioned 40 lbs. or so. I think that's the kind of base I need.

-S-
 

offwidth

Level 9 Valued Member
@Steve Freides ...
I like the 40lb / 10 mile approach to build a solid base. I think this will serve you well.

A question about specifics though if I may....

The event requires the aspirant to carry a barbell correct? Certainly some technique required to keep that load on your shoulders for the distance. I would think that would be the crux. (At least for me it would)

What are your thoughts / plans for training with the bar?
 

Bret S.

Level 6 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
The lifter will take a bar onto the shoulders with a weight equal to 150 per cent of the lifter’s bodyweight. The lifter will then carry this weight a distance of one mile. Gait is optional. Stopping to rest is allowed, but neither the lifter nor the weight may be supported in any manner. The bar must not be touched by any assistants once the mile has begun or it will be a disqualification. The bar must stay on the back the entire mile. The lifter may be handed refreshments during the mile. Records will be kept for time.

Sounds brutal, so you're talking 225 lbs on a bar for a mile in this 'lift'? That's one hell of a lift! Is it an official event with multiple entrants?
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
The Inman Mile has an interesting history. The AWA just assumed that its creator, Mr. Inman, would be the first to complete it, but he wasn't, and no one has ever managed more than about 800 meters to date.

Training with the bar on my back - last time around, I did it a lot. This time, I'm only doing that once every week or two for now, and with light weight. It's important to have the legs to complete the event, and think about it - if you weigh 200 lbs., you'll be shouldering 300 more pounds and walking a mile weighing 500 lbs. I'm not sure shouldering the bar is the difficult part, actually. In the 70 kg class, my bar weighs 105 kg or about 230 lbs.

As to technique, the only observation I can offer is that I try to find at least two different spots on my back where it feels OK, and stop from time to time to move the bar a little. Your hands can get numb - I found walking a mile with nothing more than a 10 lb. plate on either end of the bar pretty tiring.

So, you train this in the same way you train everything else, you make the efforts easier in some but not all ways, and you mix and match. For now, building a base is important.

Records are currently kept for distance without regard to time. Once the event has been completed once, records are supposed to be kept for time although I could see the AWA changing that to somehow allow both.

-S-
 

Bret S.

Level 6 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
The Inman Mile has an interesting history. The AWA just assumed that its creator, Mr. Inman, would be the first to complete it, but he wasn't, and no one has ever managed more than about 800 meters to date.

Training with the bar on my back - last time around, I did it a lot. This time, I'm only doing that once every week or two for now, and with light weight. It's important to have the legs to complete the event, and think about it - if you weigh 200 lbs., you'll be shouldering 300 more pounds and walking a mile weighing 500 lbs. I'm not sure shouldering the bar is the difficult part, actually. In the 70 kg class, my bar weighs 105 kg or about 230 lbs.

As to technique, the only observation I can offer is that I try to find at least two different spots on my back where it feels OK, and stop from time to time to move the bar a little. Your hands can get numb - I found walking a mile with nothing more than a 10 lb. plate on either end of the bar pretty tiring.

So, you train this in the same way you train everything else, you make the efforts easier in some but not all ways, and you mix and match. For now, building a base is important.

Records are currently kept for distance without regard to time. Once the event has been completed once, records are supposed to be kept for time although I could see the AWA changing that to somehow allow both.

-S-
Seems to me if somebody really, really, really wanted this, it would take probably 3-4 years of base building... the right way..
 
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