Kozushi
Level 7 Valued Member
What goes on in CC2???
By the way, I can't be sure the Kavadlo brothers aren't Paul "coach" Wade (hahaha! Note the "coach" in brackets - i.e. yet another "wink wink nudge nudge hint hint" that he isn't a real person!)
Bodyweight Thoughts on "Convict Conditioning"
- Thread starter Kozushi
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By the way, I can't be sure the Kavadlo brothers aren't Paul "coach" Wade (hahaha! Note the "coach" in brackets - i.e. yet another "wink wink nudge nudge hint hint" that he isn't a real person!)
Baron von Raschke
Level 3 Valued Member
Convict Conditioning was my "gateway drug" into the world of DD and now Strongfirst. A copy of this book was being passed around my office and it was my introduction to the concept of functional strength and I enjoyed reading about the supposed benefits of bodyweight versus weight training, and how these exercises worked because that's how we evolved to move. I ended up buying my own copy and bought into the progressions to get to the Master Step of each move. I never reached any of them, as some of the jumps were too great. I started to suspect that the 10 steps to get to each Master Step was chosen because it was a nice round number, not because each incremental step was equivalent in strength requirements. I didn't fall for the former convict shtick, however. My feeling was the author had way too much medical knowledge to have just picked this all up in prison and was actually some gymnastics buff using the minimalist appeal of a prison workout to sell books. And there was the big disclaimer right at the beginning of the book, too. With that said, I carried the book around with me for a long time, doubting the author's credentials but the system seemed to make sense.
From there I found Pavel and Naked Warrior (and later Enter the Kettlebell, Simple and Sinister) and it was the first nail in the CC coffin. Then I found Overcoming Gravity by Steven Low and I was done with CC. An entire 400 page book on gymnastics bodyweight training and not a single mention of a one arm handstand pushup pretty much confirmed that it's an impossible feat and made me doubt the rest of Convict Conditioning.
But the book did serve it's purpose. It lit the fire under me to start working out. The simplicity appealed to me, as did the discussions on multi-joint movements versus isolation movements. Maybe it wasn't the best system, maybe the overall concept was hokum and sales oriented, but I stuck with it for months which I'd never done with any program before. And I know now, comparing it side by side with anything by Pavel, or Overcoming Gravity, that it was basically Bodyweight Training 1.0. But it lured me in and opened my eyes to other training possibilities.
From there I found Pavel and Naked Warrior (and later Enter the Kettlebell, Simple and Sinister) and it was the first nail in the CC coffin. Then I found Overcoming Gravity by Steven Low and I was done with CC. An entire 400 page book on gymnastics bodyweight training and not a single mention of a one arm handstand pushup pretty much confirmed that it's an impossible feat and made me doubt the rest of Convict Conditioning.
But the book did serve it's purpose. It lit the fire under me to start working out. The simplicity appealed to me, as did the discussions on multi-joint movements versus isolation movements. Maybe it wasn't the best system, maybe the overall concept was hokum and sales oriented, but I stuck with it for months which I'd never done with any program before. And I know now, comparing it side by side with anything by Pavel, or Overcoming Gravity, that it was basically Bodyweight Training 1.0. But it lured me in and opened my eyes to other training possibilities.
Kozushi
Level 7 Valued Member
What do your workouts look like? I'd be curious as to what you do. I'm doing NW alongside S&S and I follow the GTG concept for NW - basically sets of 5 whenever I feel like it throughout the day. If I wasn't doing S&S I'd probably devise a more formal NW workout.
Baron von Raschke
Level 3 Valued Member
Currently my workouts consist of three days a week of pullups, ring pushups, ring rows and ring support holds. 3 sets of each. Two pull and two push. On the off days I'll do some hardstyle KB swings, a la S&S, to take care of the lower body.
305pelusa
Level 6 Valued Member
You have no idea just how important this is. The best system must have realistic expectations of training and improvement. This is why I like Overcoming Gravity, Kavadlo and GMB's stuff so much. It's so individualized, so "go at your own pace, move up once you feel ready and in control". I'll pick that kind of training over the mythical, made-up training of CC. Or over the unrealistic training of GymnasticBodies (although that's another topic entirely!).
You can take a KB out to a park. You don't have that advantage with bar work (unless the park has a bar... which a lot do!).
However, finding something to use as a bar is much easier than a KB. I've traveled over the US, and even internationally (China even!) and didn't miss a single workout. Not only that, I didn't have to modify my workout. That's not something you can get away with using KBs.
CC2 covers grip, calf, neck and mobility training (plus some flag progressions). It's only marginally better than CC though. It's more ramblings in a very nice, rhetorical way.
Also, no way Kavadlo is Wade. Kavadlo came to DD much later.
I genuinely believe Paul is a person who was in prison, who trained with calisthenics. But the stories of people chinning with just one pinky, doing multiple OAHSPUs on walls, he himself doing the lever to OAHS (which is something only very advanced equilibrists can do), doing a perfect OAPU with no lean. That's all garbage.
Especially amusing is the part where he says "new fish" would come to him to train and get brutally strong in half a year. Yet I've seen people follow CC religiously for 2 years only to be able to do like 5 more Pull-ups (I wish I was kidding). The entire notion of this super-secret survival system is pure rhetoric.
s f
Level 6 Valued Member
Those who think NW only teaches two exercises miss the entire premise of the book.Its the only book I have read that teaches you the importance of tension in building strength--it applies to any exercise pushups,levers,pullups,pistols,etc(I would recommend working with a certified SF bodyweight instructor-- there is no substitute for hands on training vs learning from a DVD or book). Books on progressions are a dime a dozen-find one you like and use with NW to get stronger.
pet'
Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,
Tension technique require lots of time to be performed correctly. I think this is one of the reason why NW is a book that one does not use @100%. Performing a "soft" move is easy. Performing a full tension move is another story.
A. Kavadlo also talks about tension and insists on the proper technique. "Low rep, high quality, less but better philosophy".
Kind regards,
Pet'
Tension technique require lots of time to be performed correctly. I think this is one of the reason why NW is a book that one does not use @100%. Performing a "soft" move is easy. Performing a full tension move is another story.
A. Kavadlo also talks about tension and insists on the proper technique. "Low rep, high quality, less but better philosophy".
Kind regards,
Pet'
Carl
Level 6 Valued Member
Great thread guys!
Naked Warrior is about so much more than just the two exercises as SF points out. The GTG and tension chapters are Pavel gold.
As to Pet's point, I couldn't agree more, both the Kavadlo brothers talk about the importance of full body tension often if you read their stuff.
Anyone that practices calisthenics (or any strength based training) and gets to some degree of intermediate/advanced has to have the ability to switch everything on, even if they don't talk about it.
It would be great to see another Pavel book on bodyweight only training sometime to hear any updated thoughts and maybe include a broader range of exercises (inc pullups).
Naked Warrior is about so much more than just the two exercises as SF points out. The GTG and tension chapters are Pavel gold.
As to Pet's point, I couldn't agree more, both the Kavadlo brothers talk about the importance of full body tension often if you read their stuff.
Anyone that practices calisthenics (or any strength based training) and gets to some degree of intermediate/advanced has to have the ability to switch everything on, even if they don't talk about it.
It would be great to see another Pavel book on bodyweight only training sometime to hear any updated thoughts and maybe include a broader range of exercises (inc pullups).
Kozushi
Level 7 Valued Member
Yes, even though the one arm pushup involves very little movement, it keeps nearly the entire body under intense tension and it's this tension that develops amazing strength. I taught the move to other guys at the kendo club and they've also noticed a huge difference in their strength for the sport. Kendo is all about keeping in constant tension with no let up from toe to scalp.
Kozushi
Level 7 Valued Member
Speaking as a former co-author and an English teacher, which mean next to nothing of course, I doubt that Paul "Coach" Wade exists. Of course, the controversy that is generated from an "is he real?" question helps to sell the book too. Probably he's a cipher for a few different guys working together. People have always used pen names.
pet'
Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,
@Kozushi
Here is the offcial website of Convict-Conditioning:
Convict Conditioning | Ultimate Guide to The Most Effective Body Weight Training on Earth
Here is the pistol part of the DVD (I wrote "convict conditioning" in youtube)
Kind regards,
Pet'
@Kozushi
Here is the offcial website of Convict-Conditioning:
Convict Conditioning | Ultimate Guide to The Most Effective Body Weight Training on Earth
Here is the pistol part of the DVD (I wrote "convict conditioning" in youtube)
Kind regards,
Pet'
MikeMoran
Level 6 Valued Member
Yeah I feel that overall the CC books are good but there are much better ones (Kavadlo,Gymnastic Bodies, ETC) but they do have some good info.
I would not dismiss them entirely but don't hold them up to be the be all end all of BW training. Nothing is.
"Absorb what is useful " - Bruce Lee
I would not dismiss them entirely but don't hold them up to be the be all end all of BW training. Nothing is.
"Absorb what is useful " - Bruce Lee
pet'
Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,
+1 to @MikeMoran 's B. Lee's quote
Basically in CC, some progressions are quite good: HLR, pistols, BB. For the rest well...
Volume also sounds unrealistic in CC.
Kind regards,
Pet
+1 to @MikeMoran 's B. Lee's quote
Basically in CC, some progressions are quite good: HLR, pistols, BB. For the rest well...
Volume also sounds unrealistic in CC.
Kind regards,
Pet
Kozushi
Level 7 Valued Member
Naked Warrior is the most practical one I've come across so far. It's nice to know that I don't have to practice "the big 6" but rather only "the big 2"! Also, the point that it's all about keeping the body under tension - that this is what generates the strength - that's very important. But reading other viewpoints I can pick up other interesting information. The CC book has a lot of stuff about 19th Century strongmen and some really cool pictures I would not have seen otherwise. If I wasn't doing S&S kettle bells, I probably would work on the chin ups towards a single arm chin up.
Tim Randolph
Level 7 Valued Member
In the US at least, this book is out of print and used copies are really expensive. Too bad, as it has been recommended on numerous threads.
305pelusa
Level 6 Valued Member
Hate to be that guy but... There may or may not be a PDF of this book on the web if you look around a bit.
Which frankly is about what it's worth. The book isn't very good for the regular folk, it's literally just gymnastics exercises with very lacking programming. Even Coach Sommers has admitted it to fall well under his standards because he did not understand how to apply gymnastics training to adult populations back then.
His new material, Foundation series, is infinitely better. Albeit people have been getting pretty underwhelming results from that also. If gymnastics is what you're looking into, GMB and Steven Low are much, much better sources with excellent results from people who train with their methods.
Just my 2 cents
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