Kettlebell Thread for the Newbies...

[Lew]

I started this thread to see if there is any interest in sharing thoughts, ideas, frustrations, and the like if you are just starting out.

I have seen practitioners here with years of experience, millions of swings, seemingly impossible weights for swings and get-ups, (I'm talking to YOU, Motz ), and I would like to see some stuff I can apply today, at my beginning, and specifically things I may not have thought of.

Male, 53yo. 6'. 266lbs. Health ok.

Primary goal: strength.
Secondary goal: weight loss.
Ultimate goal: be the last one to wipe my a#@.
(I read that on the forum. Thank you to whomever posted it first.)

I am about to finish my second week.
The initial 'amazing' feeling after I practice has been replaced with an overall feeling of wellness.

No aches, no pains, just feels good.

So here are my issues...

1) Can't get to 90' or less on the goblet squat.
I can do it if I hold onto a bar or shelf, but I can't do it free-standing with a kb.
Anyone else have this problem?
How did you overcome it?
How long did it take?

2) I'm hitting about 5 nearly perfect reps out of every set of swings.
The moment I focus on one thing like the plank,I forget about attacking the zipper.
Seems like about 5 things have to happen perfectly to get a good, hardstyle swing.
I feel like I should nail two-handed swings before I switch to one-handed.
Or should I switch to one-handed when I'm strong enough?

3) TGU. I loathe them. I'm sure it's a great exercise, but, and I'm embarrassed to admit this,
I can only do 2 on each side, and that's with a 4.5kg bell. (That's not a typo, that's 10lbs)
Again, the weak link seems to be the strength in the legs around the 90' angle.

I'm warming up with 8kg, swinging 16kg, and as aforementioned, TGU with...10lbs, barely.
Total time right now, with only 2 TGU each side, about 32:00.
My best time for practice is fresh out of bed.
HR low, and recovery time faster in morning than during the day or evening.
My HRM is a Polar FT7.
My last practice at night took 54:00 (about 9 minutes past forever!)

So?

How about you other newbies out there?

I'm at two weeks.

How are YOU doing?

What gets harder?

What gets easier?

What do YOU do for active rest between sets?
(Walking seems to work best for me, right now)

 

[Steve Freides]

1) if you can squat deeply while holding onto something, you can learn to squat deeply using a kettlebell as a counter balance. Give yourself some time, maybe do your goblet squats with a spotter behind you or with a wall close behind you for a while.

2) Add 1h swings slowly as you are able.

3). Be patient and both the volume and the weight will come. Let's see where you are at two months.

-S-

 

[jrosto]

Hi Lew; I'm also a noob.

Male, 53 years old, today I weight 157 lbs. At my heaviest I weighed 289 lbs. I had a bi-lateral lung transplant on January 1st. I started with S&S to build strength and endurance, I'm keeping with it because I really enjoy the program.

My first swing was on 7/25, and it was with 20 lbs. My first weighted TGU was on 7/28, it was with 15 lbs.

I'm doing S&S 5 days/week. Three on 1 active rest, two on 1 active rest.

Today's swing workout was T 20 kg - T 24 kg - L 20 - R 20 - T 24 - L 20 - R 20 - T 20 - L 20 - R 20 kg.

I did five TGU's each side with 15 kg. Today was the first day I did TGU's for time and completed the set in 9 mins 26 secs. It is time I started progressing weight in the TGU's.

My workout log is here if you want to see my progression.

1 - Goblet Squat: That took me awhile also. I first had to develop a good air squat and I did that with a 30 day squat challenge. Continue to use your support, and keep a very close eye on your form. Maybe have someone film you while you do it so you don't have to worry about watching a mirror. Only go as low as you can keep good form. Also, try changing foot position, maybe spread feet out further and see what happens.

2 - You will get there. Practice makes perfect.

3 - TGU: Lunges, lunges, lunges. Lunges are what helped me thru your exact situation. I was doing them before starting S&S and changed them up a bit to help with the TGU. Work up to a set of 10 lunges, rest, set of 10 walking lunges, rest, set of 10 reverse lunges.

4 - I know you didn't have 4 questions, but I have 4 answers Look up an SFG and schedule a visit. I see mine once/month and his input is invaluable to me.

For active rest I do high steps, shoulder rolls, shake out my arms and rubber band finger flexes.

I use heart rate to time my rest between swing sets, that has really helped my progression.

 

[shinch]

If I might add some advice.

First go see a strong first instructor

Since doing the squats and being comfortable in that position seems to be an issue for you, work on becoming comfortable there. It's ok to hold on to something to get familiar with getting lower. Once you feel okay use the 16kg for goblets. The weight will help getting in and out of that position. Sometimes adding weight helps

For the get ups work with the 16kg to the kneeling position until your squats become stronger. The try the standing step of the get ups.

For the swings go to 2 hand swings and build there and being crisp like a mid winter morning. Perfect technique. It's ok for you to take as step back to make sure your foundation is solid. The guy who does the red delta project on YouTube a few weeks ago mentioned that every new technique you do you are building on previous ones. And it's less like an elevator where you are only on floor 3 or 4. And more like a pile of sand. Where your current stage is built on previous ones and that to reach the top of the pile you need to go up the sand that is along the way and make sure your footing is secure before going higher. And like a pile of sand some Times it will slip and you have to rescuer your footing before making it to the top again. Also you will find as you progress you will likely need to revisit techniques you might think you no longer need.

Believe me brother getting out of the noob stage takes a while. I'm still not out of being a noob. And that's okay too. In some schools of martial arts the only belts were white, brown and black. so it takes a long time to no longer be a noob. And even in some Japanese judo dojos there is white and black. The white is for the learner and the black is for the amateur. Everyone had to start at the beginning at some point. So don't feel embarrassed about where you start from. Just keep plugging at it.
Try to savor the beginning. Don't treat the exercises as something to get through but to enjoy. Experience the movement as a celebration of strength and flexibility and getting closer to the man you want to be.

 

[Baron von Raschke]

Hi Lew. I've been doing S&S for about a month and a half now. I'll be 47 next month, 6'1" and 155 lbs, in good shape for my age I guess, have always been thin. My resting HR is in the mid-50's and I have a brand new Polar FT7 monitor that is working out great for me. I do S&S about 4-5 times a week, in the late afternoon. I'm not a 100% newbie because I had dabbled with Pavel's Program Minimum from Enter the Kettlebell about a year ago, so I felt pretty comfortable with swings and getups before S&S, though the getup technique in S&S is slightly different and I had to learn a couple new tricks. Currently my routine looks like this:

Warmup using goblet squats, hip thrusts and halos as shown in the book.

Then I do 24kg swings. Two sets of two handed, 7 reps. One set of left, one set of right, 7 reps. One set of left, one set of right, 5 reps. One set of two hands, 5 reps. Total of 7 sets. The reason my reps tail off is due to a lengthy thread here regarding heart rate. I had been doing 5 sets of 10 but (before I got my HR monitor) it felt as if my HR was way high. Reading the thread I mentioned and some advice that Harald Motz and Al Ciampa provided, I decided to cut back on reps to keep my HR below 140 and waiting until it got down to the 90's. Right now that takes me about 1 - 2 minutes. My HR doesn't get up to 140 until after my first set of left hand swings. My active rest between sets includes walking around my workout area while doing deep slow breaths per the S&S book.

After the swings I do 5 sets of getups that look like this: L 16kg, R 16kg, L 24kg, R 24kg, L 24kg, R 24kg, L 16kg, R 16kg, L 16kg, R 16kg. As you can see I'm transitioning up to the 24 kg bell, per the books recommendations. Adding another set of 24 kg every week or whenever I'm comfortable.

Keeping an eye on my HR has allowed me to feel refreshed shortly after the workout and ready to go again the next day. Sometimes the overall volume with the getups after a few days in a row is too much and I'll do only one set with the 24 kg bell, whatever feels safe.

Several of the pro's on here have singled out one word to describe the best way to use this system: patience. Patience made me rethink my swing sets and reduce reps to keep my HR down in the aerobic zone. Otherwise I would have just kept ramping up until I hit 10 x 10 and probably crashed hard. Patience applies to the getups too. Probably more for the getups for safety reasons. I'm pretty flexible and don't have trouble with the squats, and because I'm 47 I'm very cognizant of my heart and not beating the hell out of it like a 22 year old, and with the getups conscious about keeping my shoulder packed so as not to risk a dislocation from making an awkward move.

Just be patient and changes will come. A month ago I looked at the 24 kg bell like it was an engine block, something I'd never be able to TGU. Now I can do it quite comfortably, though only for 2 reps. I could probably squeeze out 3 right now, but I wouldn't feel safe. Patience. I'll be at 5 reps soon, I know. It's a fantastic program!

 

[Phil12]

3). Be patient and both the volume and the weight will come. Let's see where you are at two months.

When I was having trouble with the 32kg bell, this is really what I needed to be told (although y'all were very nice and couched it with some other advice).

Start to think in terms of weeks and months, and you'll realize how much progress you're making.

As for the goblet squat, I wish I had an easy answer for you. My form on them used to be pretty ugly with back rounding, so I reduced the range of motion to what looked good on camera and paused there for a few seconds each rep, trying to gradually increase the ROM over time. Over time my issues went away and now it looks good.

 

[DM 1234]

Lew, when I first started, the 16kg seemed an impossible weight, I held it in starting getup position and arms wobbled all over, I could only manage holding for a few seconds so that is all I did and then switched sides. I did that for a few reps on each side. I could just about do the swings with struggle so I did whatever number of swings I could do (2 handed only). Start with wherever you are, persist and you will build up.

On the squat, I would recommend adding rocking as many times as a day as possible, just do 5-10 rocks whenever you can (see Original Strength book, site and YouTube channel for more information).

Good luck and great thread

 

[Lew]

1) if you can squat deeply while holding onto something, you can learn to squat deeply using a kettlebell as a counter balance. Give yourself some time, maybe do your goblet squats with a spotter behind you or with a wall close behind you for a while.

2) Add 1h swings slowly as you are able.

3). Be patient and both the volume and the weight will come. Let's see where you are at two months.

-S-

Steve,

I have looked at your various sites. Very good. KBNJ is particularly good, but nothing about S&S that I could find.

In your book list, is there one you would recommend specifically for a newbie with squat issues?

I am willing to put in the time and be patient; but I don't want to take 6 months to do something I could as easily do in 3 months out of ignorance

 

[Lew]

Hi Lew; I'm also a noob.

Male, 53 years old, today I weight 157 lbs. At my heaviest I weighed 289 lbs. I had a bi-lateral lung transplant on January 1st. I started with S&S to build strength and endurance, I'm keeping with it because I really enjoy the program.

My first swing was on 7/25, and it was with 20 lbs. My first weighted TGU was on 7/28, it was with 15 lbs.

I'm doing S&S 5 days/week. Three on 1 active rest, two on 1 active rest.

Today's swing workout was T 20 kg - T 24 kg - L 20 - R 20 - T 24 - L 20 - R 20 - T 20 - L 20 - R 20 kg.

I did five TGU's each side with 15 kg. Today was the first day I did TGU's for time and completed the set in 9 mins 26 secs. It is time I started progressing weight in the TGU's.

My workout log is here if you want to see my progression.

1 - Goblet Squat: That took me awhile also. I first had to develop a good air squat and I did that with a 30 day squat challenge. Continue to use your support, and keep a very close eye on your form. Maybe have someone film you while you do it so you don't have to worry about watching a mirror. Only go as low as you can keep good form. Also, try changing foot position, maybe spread feet out further and see what happens.

2 - You will get there. Practice makes perfect.

3 - TGU: Lunges, lunges, lunges. Lunges are what helped me thru your exact situation. I was doing them before starting S&S and changed them up a bit to help with the TGU. Work up to a set of 10 lunges, rest, set of 10 walking lunges, rest, set of 10 reverse lunges.

4 - I know you didn't have 4 questions, but I have 4 answers Look up an SFG and schedule a visit. I see mine once/month and his input is invaluable to me.

For active rest I do high steps, shoulder rolls, shake out my arms and rubber band finger flexes.

I use heart rate to time my rest between swing sets, that has really helped my progression.

jrosto,

Thank you for your reply.
Very inspiring.
I once had massive bi-lateral pulmonary embolisms that nearly killed me. I can't imagine a bi-lateral transplant.
I'm glad you are well.

Lunges are a good suggestion. I'll finish my TGU part with lunges to complete the set. So only 2 TGU means 3 more lunges.

You mentioned a 30 day squat challenge.
Was that a formal program?

Sounds like I need to meet my local SFG sooner than later

 

[Kettlebelephant]

You'll find everything you need about the 30 days squat challenge on a quick google search.
It's about air squats with increasing volume over a months period.

For me one of the best things to improve my squat was Ido Portal's 30/30 Challenge.
"Sit in a relaxed squat position for 30 minutes a day, for 30 days"
Do it to the best of your ability, so if you're not able to do it with free hands just hold onto something (the bar or shelf you mentioned).
Everything else you need to know you can find here 30/30 Squat Challenge by Ido Portal

 

[Lew]

If I might add some advice.

First go see a strong first instructor

Since doing the squats and being comfortable in that position seems to be an issue for you, work on becoming comfortable there. It's ok to hold on to something to get familiar with getting lower. Once you feel okay use the 16kg for goblets. The weight will help getting in and out of that position. Sometimes adding weight helps

For the get ups work with the 16kg to the kneeling position until your squats become stronger. The try the standing step of the get ups.

For the swings go to 2 hand swings and build there and being crisp like a mid winter morning. Perfect technique. It's ok for you to take as step back to make sure your foundation is solid. The guy who does the red delta project on YouTube a few weeks ago mentioned that every new technique you do you are building on previous ones. And it's less like an elevator where you are only on floor 3 or 4. And more like a pile of sand. Where your current stage is built on previous ones and that to reach the top of the pile you need to go up the sand that is along the way and make sure your footing is secure before going higher. And like a pile of sand some Times it will slip and you have to rescuer your footing before making it to the top again. Also you will find as you progress you will likely need to revisit techniques you might think you no longer need.

Believe me brother getting out of the noob stage takes a while. I'm still not out of being a noob. And that's okay too. In some schools of martial arts the only belts were white, brown and black. so it takes a long time to no longer be a noob. And even in some Japanese judo dojos there is white and black. The white is for the learner and the black is for the amateur. Everyone had to start at the beginning at some point. So don't feel embarrassed about where you start from. Just keep plugging at it.
Try to savor the beginning. Don't treat the exercises as something to get through but to enjoy. Experience the movement as a celebration of strength and flexibility and getting closer to the man you want to be.

shinch,

My seeing an SFG sooner than later is a more common theme lately.
I may have to elevate that in priority.
Money and time...

Interesting point to start with the 16kg and simply go as far as I can in the TGU while maintaining form.
I am surprised how quickly the 16kg became manageable for swings when it felt like a monster just two weeks ago.

The one-handed swings will stay until the two-handed swings feel crisp. Good advice.

So much of this is deja-vu.
Time to refresh S&S again.

 

[Lew]

Hi Lew. I've been doing S&S for about a month and a half now. I'll be 47 next month, 6'1" and 155 lbs, in good shape for my age I guess, have always been thin. My resting HR is in the mid-50's and I have a brand new Polar FT7 monitor that is working out great for me. I do S&S about 4-5 times a week, in the late afternoon. I'm not a 100% newbie because I had dabbled with Pavel's Program Minimum from Enter the Kettlebell about a year ago, so I felt pretty comfortable with swings and getups before S&S, though the getup technique in S&S is slightly different and I had to learn a couple new tricks. Currently my routine looks like this:

Warmup using goblet squats, hip thrusts and halos as shown in the book.

Then I do 24kg swings. Two sets of two handed, 7 reps. One set of left, one set of right, 7 reps. One set of left, one set of right, 5 reps. One set of two hands, 5 reps. Total of 7 sets. The reason my reps tail off is due to a lengthy thread here regarding heart rate. I had been doing 5 sets of 10 but (before I got my HR monitor) it felt as if my HR was way high. Reading the thread I mentioned and some advice that Harald Motz and Al Ciampa provided, I decided to cut back on reps to keep my HR below 140 and waiting until it got down to the 90's. Right now that takes me about 1 - 2 minutes. My HR doesn't get up to 140 until after my first set of left hand swings. My active rest between sets includes walking around my workout area while doing deep slow breaths per the S&S book.

After the swings I do 5 sets of getups that look like this: L 16kg, R 16kg, L 24kg, R 24kg, L 24kg, R 24kg, L 16kg, R 16kg, L 16kg, R 16kg. As you can see I'm transitioning up to the 24 kg bell, per the books recommendations. Adding another set of 24 kg every week or whenever I'm comfortable.

Keeping an eye on my HR has allowed me to feel refreshed shortly after the workout and ready to go again the next day. Sometimes the overall volume with the getups after a few days in a row is too much and I'll do only one set with the 24 kg bell, whatever feels safe.

Several of the pro's on here have singled out one word to describe the best way to use this system: patience. Patience made me rethink my swing sets and reduce reps to keep my HR down in the aerobic zone. Otherwise I would have just kept ramping up until I hit 10 x 10 and probably crashed hard. Patience applies to the getups too. Probably more for the getups for safety reasons. I'm pretty flexible and don't have trouble with the squats, and because I'm 47 I'm very cognizant of my heart and not beating the hell out of it like a 22 year old, and with the getups conscious about keeping my shoulder packed so as not to risk a dislocation from making an awkward move.

Just be patient and changes will come. A month ago I looked at the 24 kg bell like it was an engine block, something I'd never be able to TGU. Now I can do it quite comfortably, though only for 2 reps. I could probably squeeze out 3 right now, but I wouldn't feel safe. Patience. I'll be at 5 reps soon, I know. It's a fantastic program!

BvR,

It looks like you started out strong and progressed from there.

The common theme I'm seeing from S&S practitioners is patience.
Start from wherever one is and 'simply' progress through the program.

I'm not impatient, I just want to be efficient; get the most out of doing the right things right, the best way possible.

The heartrate thing is counterintuitive. It has sparked much debate elsewhere in the forum. But it works. I use my body at work, so feeling recharged after the practice is a bonus for me.

Thank you for your comments.

 

[Lew]

When I was having trouble with the 32kg bell, this is really what I needed to be told (although y'all were very nice and couched it with some other advice).

Start to think in terms of weeks and months, and you'll realize how much progress you're making.

As for the goblet squat, I wish I had an easy answer for you. My form on them used to be pretty ugly with back rounding, so I reduced the range of motion to what looked good on camera and paused there for a few seconds each rep, trying to gradually increase the ROM over time. Over time my issues went away and now it looks good.

kbell12,

I already feel different after two weeks.
Weeks more and months from now I'm sure will be amazing.

I've had many good suggestions about improving my squat.
If after I try all of them, including seeing an SFG, I can't do a squat, I'll probably take up....

knitting.

 

[Cr3do]

Hey Lew,

I did my first S&S session last night.

Male, 30, 280lbs

Goals to get body more bulletproof and strong for my main sport of BJJ and submission grappling.
Secondary goal: weight loss.

I found the warm up good. I did the Goblet and Halo with the 16kg KB. I got really low in the prying Goblet squat, and could really feel my hip range improving with each rep.

I then proceeded with KB deadlifts, 2 sets of 10 with the 24kg KB.

After that I then did the KB Hitch Hike? Focusing on brininging it back and letting it swing back. Again 2 sets of 10 with 24KG.

Then I did the Two handed KB Swings with 24kg. Two sets of 10.
Watching back the videos back, the swings wasn't great.
I wasnt hinging back enough on some of the reps, and need to concentraite more in the plank.

The Get Up, I started off with a couple of reps with the shoe. Which I was doing ok with.

I then did the 16kg KB.
I have a little MCL injury through BJJ, so I only got up to the lunge postion, as I didn't want to push my knee.

Reay enjoyed the session, but lots to work on. Cheers

 

[Lew]

Hey Lew,

I did my first S&S session last night.

Male, 30, 280lbs

Goals to get body more bulletproof and strong for my main sport of BJJ and submission grappling.
Secondary goal: weight loss.

I found the warm up good. I did the Goblet and Halo with the 16kg KB. I got really low in the prying Goblet squat, and could really feel my hip range improving with each rep.

I then proceeded with KB deadlifts, 2 sets of 10 with the 24kg KB.

After that I then did the KB Hitch Hike? Focusing on brininging it back and letting it swing back. Again 2 sets of 10 with 24KG.

Then I did the Two handed KB Swings with 24kg. Two sets of 10.
Watching back the videos back, the swings wasn't great.
I wasnt hinging back enough on some of the reps, and need to concentraite more in the plank.

The Get Up, I started off with a couple of reps with the shoe. Which I was doing ok with.

I then did the 16kg KB.
I have a little MCL injury through BJJ, so I only got up to the lunge postion, as I didn't want to push my knee.

Reay enjoyed the session, but lots to work on. Cheers

Cr3do,

You are off to a great start.
Any start is a great start.
And we all seem to start somewhere a little different.
But the journey for all of us is relatively the same.


I'm just starting the third week of mine.
These are the points I have already learned:

Do the program as outlined.
Review it for 5 minutes daily until you have it memorized.
Then review it once a week so you don't misremember something.

Consistency and patience reign supreme.

Reviewing yourself from a video is excellent.

BJJ and submission grappling?

There's a local gym run by a 50yo retired cop who is a black belt in BJJ and Muy Thai.
When I achieve simple I'd like to take a few classes.

But no matter what, and I struggle with this in my life,

Don't quit.
Keep at it.
It will pay off.

 

[Cr3do]

Thanks for the great tips Lew!

I would defiantly recommend trying some BJJ classes. I did boxing and Mauy Thai when I was a little younger, but I find BJJ a bit easier on the joints as I'm getting older and it's so much more fun!

S&S also seems the perfect fit for BJJ, I wish I found it earlier!

But know is probably the perfect time as I currently have a small MCL injury so I'm cutting my BJJ down to 3 light intensity classes per week, while also doing 3 S&S sessions.

I just hope I don't start getting bored of the routine, but I'm sure once you are feeling better, performing better and getting stronger, that will keep me motivated!

 

[Buffalo]

There's no need to worry about what weight you use. I have always been stronger than my friends. Then I found strongfirst. My first bell for s&s was a 35 lb kettlebell. I wanted to get the 53 first. But I'm thankful I didnt. I'm working with the 53 now. If I hadn't taken 3 months off for summer. I would be close to owning my 80lb.
But even as strong as I have become, I just did 10 getups with a shoe. As strick and tight as I could, and it kicked my tail.
I see this place not as a forum of strenth, but a family of strength. You never see anyone making fun of someone for a lack of strength only encouragement.
Keep it up till the end of the year, you will see results. "Remember the party is always right" ETK

 

[Lew]

On the squat, I would recommend adding rocking as many times as a day as possible, just do 5-10 rocks whenever you can (see Original Strength book, site and YouTube channel for more information).

Faisal,

I have Original Strength now and will be using it!

Thanks for the endorsement of it and the encouragement to stick with the 16Kg bell.

It already feels easier!

 

[Will Moore]

How are YOU doing?

What gets harder?

What gets easier?

What do YOU do for active rest between sets?

Doing:
All things considered, I am doing well. Those things include nearly a year of research and work coupled with a StrongFirst Kettlebell course.

Harder:
Everything gets harder because you are pursuing virtuosity, or should be. Essentially, doing the common uncommonly well. (Note: virtuosity comes from gymnastics.)

The thought occurred that Simple & Sinister is somewhat like completely peeling onions with chopsticks. In that there is quite a lot of learning the subtle as each layer is peeled away. That said, holding a smoking match stick in your lips doesn't seem to help.

Easier:
I believe that patience gets easier. Especially, when a practitioner gets involved here, on the StrongFirst Forum. There is near daily reminders about both the technical as well the intention behind the plan. Additionally, "liked" posts and individual replies are more precise reminders. All those reminders help to facilitate the essence of Simple & Sinister, and StrongFirst in general. The result, for me, is both encouraging and empowering.

Active Rest:
My sets are pretty compressed, at this point. This likely needs to change. That said, my go to behind walking would be an air squat or Burpee.

Neat thread. Live well!

 

[Lew]

Will,

Did I correctly understand you to say you have been a kettlebell practitioner for a year and went to a one-day course somewhere along the way?

If so, where in your journey did you take the course and how would you rate it's impact on your practice?

Do you use a heart rate monitor?