Kettlebell Thread for the Newbies...

[Miguel]

@Lew,

Thanks! I will follow in your footsteps and attempt to read all the messages in the forum. That is really the only option we have here since there aren't any SFG I/II around. Not yet, anyhow. Great suggestions though.

Quick question for the masses: I see a LOT of reference to S&S, which I have yet to read. I have read and am still rereading ETK. Pavel says to do ROP until you pass, switching to another program is quitting.
a) Is S&S better than ROP?
b) Are the goals different for each one?
c) Does switching count as quitting?
d) Will one help you prepare better for SFG I?

Sorry for all the questions, but I have a nasty habit of thinking I know it all and this time I am sticking to the saying that all I know is that I know nothing. I want to do this right.

And again, thanks for being so helpful, its almost overwhelming.

 

[JamesR]

cheers Boosh. I added some half getups yesterday which I can just about fit into the room if I position myself right. I think with the hook grip it might be a small hands issue with the 24 bell i have. Also I think the 24 bell exposes weakness in form that my body can compensate for with the 16 but doesn't quite get away with when the weight is upped. I think i'm definitely getting some use out of going back to the 16 and doing more swings than 100 in a session and mixing it up between 2 handed, 1 handed and transfers. I will maybe try this for a couple of weeks with the odd pure S+S session thrown in and then get back to the pure S+S routine and try and work out the best way forward.

Lots of little things I'm trying to dial in on. One thing I have never quite got is the breathing. I think there is an article on the front page where a lady discussing planks explains the breathing in the best way yet for me to understand. So far I kind of think i have been mimicking the hiss I think I am meant to make but missing out on the whole tension thing which seems to be the point of the breathing.

I saw a vid somewhere where there was an instruction to turn the thumb slightly downwards (only slightly) when the bell is passing between the legs to take some strain off the bicep. I cant remember where I saw it. Wonder if any of the experts can comment on this as a positive or negative thing to try to do?

 

[Keep Lifting]

as far as breathing goes - exhale 70-80% as you hit your plank by spitting out the number of swings you have done - as Pavel writes roughly "one, two ... 15 ... 124... by the time you get to 124 you will probably have the breathing down, so you can stop calling out the numbers."

as far as dropping your thumb down slightly as you hike the bell back, many practitioners use this method and others keep a flat palm, most just keep the arms loose and with that there will be a little play as far as hand position - be careful that you do not over rotate the hand as you will pull your shoulder out of the packed position which puts you into a position of weakness and opens you up for elbow issues.

 

[Mach Won]

@Miguel S&S is essentially a polished and "perfected" "Program Minimum," which you should see referenced in ETK. If I recall correctly, ETK encourages you to move onto the ROP program once you have achieved the program minimum. So, if you tested yourself on the "Simple" goal of S&S and pass, congratulations on meeting that goal and it's time for ROP or some other program.

S&S is designed to give you an overall foundation of fitness and strength. Personally, I'm going to work to achieve the Simple goal this year before moving onto ROP. Hope this helps!

 

[Boosh32]

Today was the first 14 minute swing practice, down from 16 minutes. It has been taking me about three weeks to get comfortable at a measured time level and then cut two minutes off of the total time. The heart rate results look good. The average HR was 116 and max HR was 128 which is my Maffetone maximum. This is identical to the 16 minute results two weeks ago so the long rest to improve results works for me. I felt good during the practice and four and half hours later still feel good.

Usual disclaimers and this is my personal history so results may vary for anyone else. Today was my monthly bio-metrics day. Weight, waist, and blood pressure basically unchanged. My blood sugar is now within the normal range the last two measurements. I had an appointment with my GP last week and he was pleased with my physical condition. He said I may not see much change in my blood pressure which is in a healthy range now. I have noticed my resting HR is lower and it feels stronger.

I had blood testing done and received the results today. On my last physical I was instructed to take cod liver oil daily and now my vitamin D level is optimal. My vitamin B12 is borderline but not a major issue and I have been instructed to eat more red meat and liver. Lower vitamin B12 levels are age related in my case so it is just a matter of compensation.

 

[Anna C]

Great to hear, Boosh! Looks like you're doing it just right, and getting great results!

 

[Boosh32]

@Anna C

Thanks! There is still a lot to learn so I am attending the SFG kettlebell course in Prague next month.

 

[Pavel Macek]

@Boosh32 Excellent! See you in Prague!

 

[Boosh32]

An interesting result of the shorted time was excessive fatigue in spite of the favorable heart rate results. After three days I took a rest day and then I was doing well until the third day when I took another rest day. After the one day break the practice was weak and I felt tired. I took a two day break and today was strong and I feel great. I will follow a 1&1 schedule for a few days and see how it goes. This is progress, a problem was identified and a possible solution will be tested.

On the days off as I use the time to read older postings again. Here is a bit of wisdom that is well worth a review.

grow stronger! - StrongFirst

GROW STRONGER!
By Dave ‘Iron Tamer’ Whitley, Master SFG

5. Recovery. “There are two ways off a peak: step down or fall off.” (SFG Master Instructor Mark Reifkind) We can only progress as quickly as we recover. Training to exhaustion takes more time to recover and therefore we cannot train with as much frequency.

7. Technical precision. “Get the technique dialed in as perfectly as possible, the rest is just math.” (Marty Gallagher) Strength is a skill, therefore it is important that we NEVER sacrifice correct movement for the mere act of moving the weight. Let your strength be as beautiful as it is brutal.

 

[Boosh32]

Heart rate day and the chart looks good, AHR 113 and MHR 128. Two weeks ago was the first 14 minute practice and there is small but noticeable improvement in the HR chart. The peak and recovery heart rates rise slower. The first week turned out to be a challenge so I started the 1&1 practice schedule and it seems to be working. I can feel the results of the effort but there is no fatigue. Each practice day has been strong. In a while I will start adding a day here or there to return to a full schedule. It will be interesting to see if this is a one time challenge as my body adapts to the increased work rate or if additional time is require for each progress level.

 

[Mach Won]

I've noticed that different protocols are referenced here on the forum and in blog plots. For instance, there's a blog on military pressing and it references "protocol 410a." Where can we find these protocols? I've searched the forum and don't get any results. Can anyone provide me with an explanation?

 

[Lew]

I've noticed that different protocols are referenced here on the forum and in blog plots. For instance, there's a blog on military pressing and it references "protocol 410a." Where can we find these protocols? I've searched the forum and don't get any results. Can anyone provide me with an explanation?

@Steve Freides , can you help with this?

 

[Steve Freides]

The experimental protocols are available on an individual basis. Contact Craig Marker at StrongFirst for more information, you may PM him here using the username listed below.

My understanding is that some confidentiality is required (e.g., it's OK to say you're on protocol 123 but not OK to post the details of the protocol here or elsewhere), as is your feedback in terms of any pre- and post-protocol testing.

Everyone should be aware that these protocols are being managed by Craig and Pavel, and they're not part of what Al @aciampa is doing. Same organization, different protocols, and being managed differently.

@CMarker.

-S-

 

[Lew]

The experimental protocols are available on an individual basis. Contact Craig Marker at StrongFirst for more information, you may PM him here using the username listed below.

My understanding is that some confidentiality is required (e.g., it's OK to say you're on protocol 123 but not OK to post the details of the protocol here or elsewhere), as is your feedback in terms of any pre- and post-protocol testing.

Everyone should be aware that these protocols are being managed by Craig and Pavel, and they're not part of what Al @aciampa is doing. Same organization, different protocols, and being managed differently.

@CMarker.

-S-

THANK YOU STEVE!!

 

[Mach Won]

@Steve Freides Thanks for the information.

 

[Boosh32]

Mixed results for monthly biometrics. Weight and waist measurement are the same but I can wear a smaller pair of jeans so there is progress. HR is up, probably due to 1&1 practicing, AHR was 123 and MHR 133. I felt strong and will resume daily practicing tomorrow. It will only take three days to know if I am ready to resume daily practicing.

Airline tickets have been purchased and the hotel reservation for SFG Course in Prague next weekend have been made.

 

[Lew]

Boosh, you're a machine!

I like your style.

I have tended to just push through more than you, less than others.

I'm taking my cue from you.

Thank you for your thoughtful post.

 

[Boosh32]

Boosh, you're a machine!

I like your style. I have tended to just push through more than you, less than others. I'm taking my cue from you. Thank you for your thoughtful post.

Thanks Lew! I have now practiced three days in a row and I feel fine now. I have been reducing a session by two minutes once I felt solid, usually two weeks, which is about a 12% increase in kilograms a minute. That worked until 14 minutes then I started the 1&1 schedule for two weeks as a result of the over training. I missed the daily practice and came to the conclusion a one minute reduction might have allowed daily practice. The 1&1 schedule was working and I followed the "If is working don't change it" advice. I have been swinging the 16 kg kettlebell since I started 29 Oct 2015 and maybe a 24 kg would be better, it was a Christmas present. Maybe increased strength would help with the work rate. Six or seven 24 kg swings in 20 minutes is very close to 80 kg/m which is where I am now with seven 16 kg in 14 minutes. The SFG Course is this weekend so that is one of many questions.

 

[Boosh32]

This message thread has gotten long, in short I am almost 68 years old and had a US Army career. The physical fitness was old school so I am still learning the best way to proceed. "Some is good and more is better" doesn't work for me any longer. We didn't listen to our bodies in the Army as it's opinion wasn't wanted.

My knees are shot and I have not been able to run since 1995. Squats are a long term goal and I think I might be able to do goblet squats one day. Swings have great improved my knee stability. I still do half TGUs to stay off of my knees. That will be a discussion point with an SFG instructor this weekend. Maybe my technique is wrong or maybe bent presses and/or windmills are in my future.

 

[Lew]

This message thread has gotten long, in short I am almost 68 years old and had a US Army career. The physical fitness was old school so I am still learning the best way to proceed. "Some is good and more is better" doesn't work for me any longer. We didn't listen to our bodies in the Army as it's opinion wasn't wanted.

My knees are shot and I have not been able to run since 1995. Squats are a long term goal and I think I might be able to do goblet squats one day. Swings have great improved my knee stability. I still do half TGUs to stay off of my knees. That will be a discussion point with an SFG instructor this weekend. Maybe my technique is wrong or maybe bent presses and/or windmills are in my future.

Outstanding.

You will find success with an open mind.