Tim Ferriss 'From geek to freak'

Discussion in 'Other' started by pet', Nov 29, 2019.

  1. LukeV

    LukeV More than 300 posts

    5/5 is reasonably speedy lol. I've done Super Slow with the weight moved as slow as possible while maintaining momentum. It was the most brutal workout I've ever done. absolute torture
     
  2. pet'

    pet' More than 5000 posts

    Hello,

    @LukeV
    Thank you very much for So if I sum it up:
    - bench + squat + weighted pull up
    - 2x a week
    - 5/5 cadence
    - 5 sets very close to failure
    - about 30s of rest between the sets

    I guess that these short rest periods also make the training quite "heart pumping", so we can get some conditioning from it as well ?

    Other day, AA with heavy swings.

    Do I understand right ?

    Kind regards,

    Pet'
     
  3. LukeV

    LukeV More than 300 posts

    Hi Pet, I wouldn't worry about the cadence if you're doing multiple sets. Slow cadence is usually used to maximise time under tension for a single set. The advice is based on the context you set (limited time, goal is muscle, twice per week etc). If you're time poor and can get to the gym twice per week you'll end up looking pretty awesome on that program. If you've got more time or can go to the gym more often I'd do it differently. Cheerio, Luke
     
    pet' likes this.
  4. North Coast Miller

    North Coast Miller More than 2500 posts

    I recently made it to 205lbs, the heaviest in my life. This was done with about a 500 cal surplus daily and higher training intensity - I did not increase volume one bit. In fact I cut out my supplemental HIIT, iso, metcons etc just 3 sessions/week of about 45 minutes. I went until my belt got tight, by then the rest of my jeans barely fit and all of my numbers were up near where they were 25 years ago.

    Also did a moderate hike w/ family and my usual load of approx 85lbs felt downright comfortable for the first time in years.

    I used a moderate volume HIT approach with one hard working final set in a string of three fairly easy ones to dial in and get a minimum volume for the added calories to be muscle instead of fat.

    Even Schoenfeld conceeded the time effectiveness of traditional HIT. While there aren't many left who espouse it as an optimum strategy, it IS still a good strategy for time efficient results, Ferris claims notwithstanding.
     
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  5. pet'

    pet' More than 5000 posts

    Hello,

    I will train at home.

    Above all, I am very pleased to read that I can build some mass - even if I do not do it for aesthetics - while improving my physical abilitities (for instance hiking).

    This is this program is not perfect: there is better if one wants to do a pure bodybuilding routine, or a pure strength routine. Nonetheless, I was more after some kind of "compromise", which I think I found thanks to your help ! :)

    I'll need to pack on some extra calorie as well. It will be the most difficult part of the story. Some shakes are planned to manage that.

    In tour opinion, do I have to cut out the gtg I currently run ?

    Kind regards,

    Pet'
     
  6. North Coast Miller

    North Coast Miller More than 2500 posts

    Calories are the most important element. Following that is enough effort to make sure the added calories go to muscle.
    Lastly, one needs the most rest possible between bouts.

    I don't know how GTG would effect this, more of a try and see situation. One of the most consistent factors I experience when increasing weight - there is an initial boost in training energy for a week or so, followed by an accumulation of lean (mostly) mass. Normally I use a two stage calorie increase because of this.

    I also feel that training intensity/overreach needs to stay high to encourage max lean muscle growth rather than general size increase. For me this is best achieved with relatively brief but intense workout sessions - hammer it hard and pile in the nutrition.

    This strategy has worked well for me every time I've used it, can only tolerate it for 6-8 week blocks. When its working well I'd swear I can actually feel myself getting bigger on non-training days.
     
    pet' likes this.
  7. pet'

    pet' More than 5000 posts

    Hello,

    @North Coast Miller
    Thank you very much for your answer.

    Then I'll keep running GTG for a while. That way I'll be "sure" that my extra calories will be converted into muscle and not into fat (or at least, not that much into fat).

    I do not plan to follow this calorie surplus for a very long time. I give myself 2 months as a maximum. Then, I'll see where I'll be, but I will probably stop adding calorie and switch to a maintenance (more or less the same routine, but reducing progressively the calorie surplus).

    The routine I'll follow from tomorrow is the following one:
    - bench + squat + weighted pull up
    - 2x a week
    - 1 set very close to failure with a 5/5 cadence + a drop set very close to failure of an easier variation or lighter weight
    - about 30s of rest between exercises

    Other day, AA with heavy swings.

    There will be the additional GTG routine (mainly push ups, squats and pull ups - different variations of the three). During the weekends, 1 ruck (about 2h with 30kg) and 1 run (1h15, nasal breathing). There will also be 2 boxing sessions a week.

    Kind regards,

    Pet'
     
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  8. North Coast Miller

    North Coast Miller More than 2500 posts

    Drop sets work well, Rest/Pause and or Clusters work well too and allow more reps at higher loading in the same amount of time.

    For me, a major component of any weight gain effort starts with leg work, lots of it. This seems to provide a good anabolic boost that signals a "let's go".
     
    pet' likes this.
  9. q.Hung

    q.Hung More than 500 posts

    about the weight gain after starving time, i have my own experience. In the summer ( from May to middle of October), i had a vegetarian diet ( no egg, minimum amount of milk produce), plus cut the morning meal. My bodyweight slowly dropped from 67 kg to 64 kg. After i get my meat and egg back, boom, after more than a month, i weight 72 kg. So that is 8 kg jump.
     
    pet' likes this.
  10. pet'

    pet' More than 5000 posts

    Hello,

    @North Coast Miller
    So I tried the routine I described in my last post. It is harder than it looks even if the session is short.

    I remember that working on the legs with squats (or deadlifts) is what triggers the most growth hormone. I guess this is what we need when we target overall growth. So for the moment, I'll keeep my GTG work as long as I am fresh during the day.

    In your opinion, how many time per week should it be done to get results ? Twice ? Three times ?

    @q.Hung
    Until today, I was running IF (mainly skipping breakfast and doing 16/8 frame). Today's session was quite tough. So I took a breakfast. I'll then get back to a good old fashioned 3 meals a day.

    Did you eat in calorie surplus or simply did you get back to "normal" ?

    Kind regards,

    Pet'
     
  11. North Coast Miller

    North Coast Miller More than 2500 posts

    @pet'
    personally I'd want 3x week.

    The fewer sets you do, the more exercises are needed. I compare this to what the hardcore HIT folks do - a single set to failure and run through a handful of exercises that emphasize different aspects/angles of each movement pattern. Their set totals will still wind up around 10-12 or maybe more.

    I would take as much time between sets and exercises as you feel you need. Is far more important the level of effort per set rather than keeping rest intervals short.

    In your case I'd want minimum 2 exercises per movement x the 2 sets. And that second set should be with "maximum effort". You could experiment with this, I've used varying amounts of lead in sets but one is all that seems to be needed if set extenders are being used on the working set - it will have as many reps as any two "ordinary" sets.
    With relatively low volume I'd even more strongly recommend using Rest/Pause instead of dropsets, the initial effort plus two repeats at about 20-30 second intervals AMRAP. Rep counts can get as low as 2-3 on the repeats.
     
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  12. LukeV

    LukeV More than 300 posts

    I support that with maybe a slightly lower range. Minimum I would do with single set to failure is seven exercises. Adding an additional set, however, I wouldn't go below five exercises. Even with three sets close to failure I would stay at five exercises. But with five sets close to failure I comfortably drop to three exercises. But with hypertrophy it all comes down to your pre-conditions. How often do you want to go to the gym? How long do you want to spend there? The answer to those questions change everything
     
    pet' likes this.
  13. pet'

    pet' More than 5000 posts

    Hello,

    @North Coast Miller and @LukeV
    Thanks for your insight !

    So this is what I'll do then (monday, wednesday, friday).

    I train at home, before going to work. Indeed, otherwise, I am never sure I'll have time to train. So that way, in all cases, I get some physical activity during my day. Because I start quite early, I usually dedicate 30 minutes to the training per se. Afterwards, there is my mobility routine which I consider crucial as well. Basically, I dedicate 40 minutes per day to my morning routine.

    So, as a "compromise" (training session duration, recovery, results) between your two options - which I consider very good by the way ! - would it be "interesting" to do something like:
    - 3 times a week
    - 2 sets very close to failure with 5/5 cadence + 1 rest / pause
    - keeping the 3 "basics": (1 push (bench), 1 pull (pull up), 1 leg (squat))
    - dropping IF to switch to an "old school nothing fancy" 3 meals a day

    Thank you guys ! :)

    Kind regards,

    Pet'
     
  14. LukeV

    LukeV More than 300 posts

    Repeat sets at 5/5 might be too tough without a long rest period but if it doesn't kill you it will certainly make you stronger lol. If it isn't doable think about dropping the second 5/5 set and adding a higher volume pump set at the end, so 1x 5/5, 1x rest/pause, 1x 15+reps. That's some good variability that should also be fun. Good luck! Let us know how you go
     
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  15. pet'

    pet' More than 5000 posts

    Hello,

    @LukeV
    Thank you for your answer.

    Then I'll try doing only one set, and adding an additional pump to see how it goes. The good thing about this additional set is that it also improves muscular endurance and strength (which what I am looking for because I try to do at the same time so GPP and hypertrophy).

    Kind regards,

    Pet'
     
  16. LukeV

    LukeV More than 300 posts

    I'd stick with the two 5/5 plus rest/pause and only drop the second 5/5 if it's too tough. With only three exercises, three sets is better than two
     
    pet' likes this.
  17. North Coast Miller

    North Coast Miller More than 2500 posts

    Agree w/ the above re a third set with only three exercises. When I use this strategy I tend to do one longer initial set close to failure at 10-15 reps, this is the "volume" set. Take a middle set that is a lot heavier but only a few reps - nowhere near failure, maybe 1/2 the reps I could normally do at that loading. This is as much a mental prep for the all-important last set as anything else.

    Final set is done at the heavier weight (usually a 6-8 RM load) using a first effort just short of failure, followed by two Rest/Pause repeats at 20-30 seconds. These don't even need to be all the way to a gravity-wins failure, the accumulated effort of the R/P covers all that just as effectively and with more volume. By the last repeat I am certain when I stop that I couldn't get another clean rep. For legs I normally do only one repeat.

    After that last set I generally don't even want to do any more work w/ that exercise, it feels counterproductive even. Strange with all the high volume programming for hypertrophy that has become popular since Schoenfeld's last big Meta-analysis I find a lower volume HIT approach to spur more lean growth. If I can do much more volume than that, to me it means I'm not working very hard at any single point in time.

    Also, I drifted toward using Rest/Pause on exercises that involve a lock out at the top of the ROM (bench + squat in your case) and Drop Sets for pulling exercises that don't have a lock out (weighted pull-up).
     
  18. pet'

    pet' More than 5000 posts

    Hello,

    Thank you guys !

    Disclaimer: I really apologize for these questions...this is the first time I aim for a little hypertrophy during my training...

    When I read these articles, I see I can also use an heavier weight (in the range of 3-6), to get the best of both worlds (strength and size).
    Drop Sets for Strength | Poliquin Article
    Use Drop Sets to Build Muscle Strength and Size

    Would it also be interesting then ? (1 set + 1 drop set + 1 rest /pause)

    Kind regards,

    Pet'
     
  19. North Coast Miller

    North Coast Miller More than 2500 posts

    @pet'
    I would not recommend using drops and r/p in the same string, they are more interchangeable based on exercise selection and available tools. Ideally when you use one of these techniques there should be not enough left to do an honest effort on any additional sets worth the additional recovery time - maybe a light weight pump set but again, that should be upfront.

    Yes, using either you should be using heavy weight. With dropsets you can actually use higher weight initially and still get good volume. Eg a 2-3 rep effort close to failure, strip weights and continue as quickly as possible with another 8-10 reps. I never though much of multiple drops, a single step down should be more than sufficient to finish your effort off. If you are wanting to do more drops, the starting weight is maybe too light IMHO.

    With R/P you should use a lighter weight - something in the 5-10 rep range. Number of repeats can vary but I generally stop at two. A third can be added if using lighter weight - more at the 10 rep end of the spread, but generally I prefer to increase weight and put all my effort into two repeats (one initial effort plus two repeats).

    Am not a fan of hitting my repeats for anything less than two reps, nothing more than 6. Sounds like a lot of rules but in practice it is pretty easy to hit those specs based entirely on keeping the starting weight in the 5-10 RM range.

    This is a great template I found that matches my approach very closely but with Thib spin:

    The Best Damn Workout Plan For Natural Lifters | T Nation
     
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