offwidth
Level 10 Valued Member
As an aside….
I know some vegans (here we go…) who are all right with eating clams, mussels, oysters, etc., because of (they say) not having a CNS. (the mollusks not the vegans)
Time to leave the Paleo diet?
- Thread starter Xcal
- Start date
I know some vegans (here we go…) who are all right with eating clams, mussels, oysters, etc., because of (they say) not having a CNS. (the mollusks not the vegans)
JPCross
Level 6 Valued Member
Well played. I take the approach personally that if it swam, walked, crawled, flew, or moved on its own, I'll probably give it a try.
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
LukeV
Level 7 Valued Member
I'm very sure paleo people would have argued all day about what "they" ate and whether it was good for them
oab
Level 6 Valued Member
The article below speaks for itself.
Dietary Patterns and Non-Communicable Disease Biomarkers: A Network Meta-Analysis and Nutritional Geometry Approach
Now on the dose side ie composition of what is eaten put actual paleo foods (vs unethical marketting) through a nutritional calculator and compare the outcomes with non-paleo foods and there is obviously better nutrient composition. Also, do consider that nutrient calculators do not yet make any allowance for the presence of toxins in foods. For example lections in grains and legumes and those in potato skin and green potatos. The cumulative dietary dose of all toxins needs to be estimated to know the true effect ie due to additive effects and chronic effects.
Dietary Patterns and Non-Communicable Disease Biomarkers: A Network Meta-Analysis and Nutritional Geometry Approach
Abstract
Quantitative rankings of multiple dietary patterns for their effects on non-communicable disease (NCD) biomarkers is lacking and would inform primary prevention strategies. Accordingly, a network meta-analysis (NMA) was conducted to compare and rank the effects of different dietary patterns on NCD biomarkers, and associations of dietary patterns’ underlying macronutrient composition with NCD biomarkers were determined by a nutritional geometry approach. Randomised controlled trials (RCTs) were eligible for inclusion if they enrolled healthy participants, employed food-based dietary pattern interventions without energy restriction, and reported NCD biomarker outcomes. NCD biomarkers were included as an outcome if ≥10 trials were available. A systematic search of five electronic databases identified 4008 records. Sixty-eight articles from 59 RCTs reporting lipids, glycemic, and inflammatory biomarkers were included for quantitative syntheses. Risk-of-bias was predominantly categorized as low or having some concerns, and confidence-of-evidence low. Relative to western habitual diet, the Mediterranean, Dietary Approaches to Stop Hypertension (DASH), dietary guidelines-based, plant-based, and low-fat diets reduced low-density lipoprotein cholesterol (mean difference range: −0.29 to −0.17 mmol/L), total cholesterol (−0.36 to −0.24 mmol/L), and apolipoprotein B (−0.11 to −0.07 g/L) (all p < 0.05); the Paleo, plant-based and dietary guidelines-based diets reduced homeostasis model assessment of insulin resistance (−0.95 to −0.35, all p < 0.05). No dietary pattern ranked consistently highest. The Paleo diet received the highest all-outcomes-combined average Surface Under the Cumulative Ranking Curve value (67%), followed by DASH (62%) and Mediterranean diets (57%), whereas western habitual diet was lowest (36%). Our findings were independent of macronutrient composition, highlighting the significance of dietary pattern-level analysis.Now on the dose side ie composition of what is eaten put actual paleo foods (vs unethical marketting) through a nutritional calculator and compare the outcomes with non-paleo foods and there is obviously better nutrient composition. Also, do consider that nutrient calculators do not yet make any allowance for the presence of toxins in foods. For example lections in grains and legumes and those in potato skin and green potatos. The cumulative dietary dose of all toxins needs to be estimated to know the true effect ie due to additive effects and chronic effects.
Xcal
Level 5 Valued Member
Please confirm/correct my understanding:
- this was a very detailed research.
- on average, Paleo was the best diet (but not too much above 2nd and 3rd), while western habits are considerably lower
- however, individuals following the diet types do stand out as outliers with vert good results. This sounds like a typical Martial Arts problem where a highly trained senior practioner from 1 style can still be beaten by a very junior practioner with the 'killer' mindset from a different style, and the 1st style is regarded as poor. I picture the kung fu movies => "hey that school beat our best fighter, let's go train their!".
This is a fascinating and funny discussion (Clams??? LOL). I'm still on my IF and Mediteranian, with some days of western habit per month. Some comfort eating DOES have a place in overall health maintenance, just like a Hard, Medium, Easy day of training.
Pete L
Level 6 Valued Member
...and, in the same way, eating seasonal produce is analogous to an annual periodisation plan.
They most definitely have a CNS, since its usually bathed in serotonin and under an amygdala hijack. ( the vegans not the mollusks )
Eyetic
Level 6 Valued Member
sure they do....check youtube!But do clams move?
svencandy
Level 5 Valued Member
My interpretation of Paleo diet is meat and veggies, plenty of strong men and women around these parts practice that.
In saying that, if you enjoy some sweets such as baklava or a few beverages on the weekends, you aren't going to die.
Good Relationships are just as important to health.
In saying that, if you enjoy some sweets such as baklava or a few beverages on the weekends, you aren't going to die.
Good Relationships are just as important to health.
Gypsyplumber
Level 7 Valued Member
I understand one aspect of that article been correct and that’s the whole idea of labeling things “Paleo” all of those products that they sell I would probably stay away from there not necessary. My whole problem with labeling diets is that this shouldn’t be a “diet” just eat what people are supposed to eat, and what we have eaten for millennia. One of the biggest problems with nutrition is there so much information out there that humans have become the only species on earth that isn’t sure what they’re supposed to eat. A lion knows exactly what a lion eats. There’s no question about it. But people have been so confused by all these corporations that sell us food like products like industrial seed oils, processed grains, processed sugar, and foods that are full of chemicals. We don’t know what’s real anymore. If you follow the food pyramid to a T and do a really good job you’ll definitely end up with diabetes or heart disease and likely obese. The food pyramid will have you eating tons, and tons of grains every morning way too much sugar, and very little meat. But it will be very low fat. (Which is not necessarily a good thing)
The best thing about the Paleo diet is that it has people eating real Whole Foods… is that expensive? It can be, but what is the cost of your health? I have yet to meet anybody who ditched processed foods and started eating a whole food diet that didn’t immediately feel the benefits. Personally, I eat mostly meat and eggs and some fruits and raw dairy. I don’t know if that’s considered Paleo but I don’t eat anything in a box anymore. I can almost guarantee if the entire United States population started eating a Paleo like diet, we would see a traumatic drop and diabetes heart disease would become less obesity would go down, and people would get off of drugs.
The best thing about the Paleo diet is that it has people eating real Whole Foods… is that expensive? It can be, but what is the cost of your health? I have yet to meet anybody who ditched processed foods and started eating a whole food diet that didn’t immediately feel the benefits. Personally, I eat mostly meat and eggs and some fruits and raw dairy. I don’t know if that’s considered Paleo but I don’t eat anything in a box anymore. I can almost guarantee if the entire United States population started eating a Paleo like diet, we would see a traumatic drop and diabetes heart disease would become less obesity would go down, and people would get off of drugs.
Hrungnir
Level 7 Valued Member
Which millennia of eating do you choose? Which region of the world?
A lion might indeed know what a lion eats, but a lion in captivity lives twice as long as one in the wild.
Bingo!
Gypsyplumber
Level 7 Valued Member
For the most part humans all over the world ate real food. Every region did vary in its cuisine obviously if you lived by the ocean you ate lots of sea food, if you lived where you could hunt land animals that’s what you did, if you had local fruits you ate that. Agriculture came about and people started processing grains but the way in which they prepared them was different than today. For example in mesoamerica corn was ground up and mixed with lime to allow for the corn to be broken down so it could be digested easier. To me I’m referring to the millennia that didn’t include industrial seed oils, processed sugar, and gmo grains. Things like cereals, Oreos, chips, fast food….
As for the lion analogy that’s just ONE example. Yes I’m sure lions in captivity live longer, why? Because they have an abundance of the foods they eat being given to them, they’re not competing for food, and they have no other predators to face.
The internet, in fact this thread alone is a perfect example of “humans not knowing what we are supposed to eat anymore” to me it’s simple eat real foods. Eat meat eat some plants stay away from bs
Hrungnir
Level 7 Valued Member
Romans were consuming massive amounts of lead at the same period of time that mesoamerica mixed masa with lye. Thinking that ancient humans had a better grasp and understanding of how humans should eat is not only ignoring the genetic evolution that has occurred since, but science as well.
You’re picking and choosing what you do, so it is no longer based upon ancient food habits it’s based upon how you want to eat. The Aztec lifespan was 25 years, is that the sort of longevity you want to base your diet off of?
I’m just saying your point is skewed when the example you gave is so erroneous with the lion. You are romanticizing the human diet with how you claim humans used to eat/live. It’s like saying you want a governmental system built off the medieval system but then using Game of Thrones as your governmental system. Regardless of the results of the end verdict, the reasoning for how you got there is nonsensical which detracts from the overall verdict.
Gypsyplumber
Level 7 Valued Member
I’m literally saying eat real food. Westin price wrote a very good book called nutrition and degeneration that studies diets of different tribes before and after the introduction of the western diet. He found that those on their traditional diets were much healthier and had perfect teeth and dental structure. After one generation on a western diet health drastically declined. We do live longer due to many factors now a days, but we also have way more diet related disease. Name one “food” invented after 1900 that has any real benefits for your health….I’ll wait. You’re over complicating something that is so simple eat real food, animals and plants that’s it.
Hrungnir
Level 7 Valued Member
I would do some research on Westin Price, taking nutrition advice from a dentist who cherry picked data isn’t a great foundation for nutritional ethos. Here’s a modern study showing how unhealthy hunter gather teeth are.
We have more diet related disease because we live longer in part due to our diets and overall prosperity. We are suffering from our success.
I would say you’re over complicating it, state that it’s healthier to eat Whole Foods for the plethora of reasons it is healthier to eat Whole Foods. Don’t act like it’s returning to an ancestral way of eating, that’s complicating things.
Edit: Golden Rice was invented in the 1990s to answer your other question.
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watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
Pasteurized dairy.
Granted, Pasteur invented pasteurization in the 19th century, but the first law requiring milk to be pasteurized was in 1908 in Chicago.
Caveat:
I like raw milk, but I also acknowledge that it comes with a degree of risk and it doesn't scale well safely in the mass distribution systems the US uses.
Listeria, e coli, salmonella outbreaks, and other food illnesses from milk used to be a serious public health issue.
Hrungnir
Level 7 Valued Member
That’s a good one, my brain didn’t go down this route. There’s also Vitamin D fortified milk (1930s) and iodized salt (1924).