Kettlebell Tips for increasing snatch weight

[El Cid]

So I took a fall while hiking not long ago, but it looks like I'm a few weeks from resuming training. I left off with a PR on a 5 minute snatch test and my next step is making a 4kg increase in bell size to build up to another 5 minute test peak.

In the past I've made the jump by adding in sets of the new bell gradually, building a volume base and compressing rest periods between sets to peak for a 5:00 test when it's time.

Being that I'm injured and have some time to think it over I'm looking for tips on what anyone else has done when bringing a heavier bell into their multi-set snatch practice. Mainly just brainstorming and looking for new tips and ideas -- waving of volume, set/rep schemes, frequency, anything really.

Please share what's worked (and even what hasn't) for you. Thanks in advance!

 

[Miguel]

In the past I've made the jump by adding in sets of the new bell gradually, building a volume base and compressing rest periods between sets to peak for a 5:00 test when it's time.

Sir, I think that says it best.

waving of volume

Absolutely

frequency

Here is a question, sir: How are you training? Is snatching and your chosen metric of the 5 minute snatch your sole focus?

When I made my jumps, the frequency was 3-4 times a week, snatching (the first time I was doing presses also, it was a little much. Second time Just snatches) A+A style, with no glycolytic peaking. Sufficient time between sets of snatches to allow for aerobic recovery. After 6 weeks, this still netted me gains on the 5 and 10 minutes Snatch tests.

"Use the heavier bell for 1-2 sets per session initially. Add it in more each following session as your body calls for it. Take care of your hands" (Ciampa, A. 2016, loosely paraphrased...)

Hopefully some of this was helpful, sir.

 

[coachnathanwhite]

@El Cid For myself, waving the load on 1H SWINGS has always been my protocol for increasing and now maintaining my snatch performance. Before my initial SFG cert, I was practicing with the 20kg for months while waving my 1H Swings between the 24, 28, and 32kg. Once I was ready to attempt the 24kg snatch, it went up easy and my overall performance on the snatch test averaged between 4:05 and 4:20.

Also, I believe training my swings easily at a ratio of 5/1 to the snatch saved my shoulders and hands from over-training.

 

[El Cid]

@Miguel

6 days per week; alternating days of low volume grinds and days of ballistics for usually 3 of each. I'll likely be moving to 4 days ballistics/2 days grinds.

KB Snatch isn't my sole priority, but I'm planning to place it as my first priority for at least 6 weeks, with 2nd priority being maintain as much of my Deadlift and Press 1RM as reasonably possible.

Nice quote from Al Ciampa. Direct wisdom to follow.

 

[El Cid]

@El Cid For myself, waving the load on 1H SWINGS has always been my protocol for increasing and now maintaining my snatch performance. Before my initial SFG cert, I was practicing with the 20kg for months while waving my 1H Swings between the 24, 28, and 32kg. Once I was ready to attempt the 24kg snatch, it went up easy and my overall performance on the snatch test averaged between 4:05 and 4:20.

Also, I believe training my swings easily at a ratio of 5/1 to the snatch saved my shoulders and hands from over-training.

Nice. I've always kind of displaced my Swing volume with Snatches when I've tried to make progress on the Snatch. I might rethink that approach and try something in the direction of what you've outlined here and see how it goes. Thanks

 

[Steve Freides]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it recently, but a classic assistance lift for snatches is swings with a heavier weight.

-S-

 

[GeoffreyLevens]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it recently, but a classic assistance lift for snatches is swings with a heavier weight.
-S-

What about heavier cleans? For me at least, that has seemed to be a very helpful step as I can do fairly strong, snappy, one hand swings quite a bit heavier than I can clean and it does take a good swing to be able to clean a clean clean if you know what I mean.... Shakespear

 

[Kozushi]

Learning how to fall safely is a good thing - gymnasts and judo guys know this secret. It's well worth learning. One fall and you're injured or dead, no matter how strong you are.

 

[Anna C]

next step is making a 4kg increase in bell size to build up to another 5 minute test peak.

@El Cid, do you mean doing 100 in 5 min (like the SFG snatch test), or doing max reps in 5 min (like with the TSC)? And if max reps, would this be > 100?

One thing to think about is: What is your limiter? I think it's Dan John who says that it's going to be "guns, buns, or lungs" (in other words, your grip/arms/shoulders, your hip hinge, or your cardiovascular endurance).... which of these holds you back in your 5-min test performance? This might help target your approach.

I did the A+A protocols along with Miguel and had similar gains. Snatching 24kg for small sets with lots of recovery did provide a significant improvement in a 5-min test with the 16kg (133 max reps), as well as a 5-min test with the 20kg (94 max reps). VERY little time spent on high rep sets (such as 5-min test mode) was needed, and I'm also a believer in this, thanks to Al Ciampa... don't spend your time in glycolytic land, snatching to find a peak.... Instead, build the base, then test occasionally.

I'm inclined to agree with @GeoffreyLevens on the heavy cleans, although I can only say this theoretically and in hindsight, because I didn't take that approach going into it. And as @Steve Freides said, heavy swings did help too, especially heavy 1H swings. But they don't cover all the bases; although swings gave me a good hip hinge and grip, I was lacking in bicep strength/endurance and shoulder stability when I started in with the heavy snatches. And there's not much that can give you that shoulder stability at the top of the snatch (no, not even heavy get-ups) other than time and practice working up to heavy snatches.

 

[Steve Freides]

Just to clarify: What @Anna C has been doing seems to allow one to do things they haven't trained directly for in high intensity, which is just way cool no matter how you slice it; what I mentioned is simply an assistance exercise for people who are doing high-rep snatches several times per week with their competition weight, e.g., if you need to snatch 24 kg for 10 minutes, you might do a few sets of 6-8 minutes each in length, then follow those up with 32 kg swings for high reps. The swings are in _no_ way going to prepare you for snatches, they are just an assistance exercise.

-S-

 

[Anna C]

Ah, yes... long sets of "Die but Do" (S&S reference) non-stop, continuous swings... yes that might indeed be good for prepping for the endurance aspect of a non-stop snatch session. I did this one day, leading up to the Spring TSC... non-stop swings w/ 16kg, got to 8 minutes, 300 swings... I thought, "That's got to be good for something!" I do think that can help with hip hinge endurance, grip/forearm endurance, mental fortitude, breathing, cardiovascular endurance... all important for snatch testing.

@El Cid, I thought of one other question: Do you like to "sprint snatch" and take breaks when you set the bell down during your 5-minutes? Or do you prefer to have the bell in one hand or the other for the duration?

 

[El Cid]

@El Cid, do you mean doing 100 in 5 min (like the SFG snatch test), or doing max reps in 5 min (like with the TSC)? And if max reps, would this be > 100?

One thing to think about is: What is your limiter? I think it's Dan John who says that it's going to be "guns, buns, or lungs" (in other words, your grip/arms/shoulders, your hip hinge, or your cardiovascular endurance).... which of these holds you back in your 5-min test performance? This might help target your approach.

I did the A+A protocols along with Miguel and had similar gains. Snatching 24kg for small sets with lots of recovery did provide a significant improvement in a 5-min test with the 16kg (133 max reps), as well as a 5-min test with the 20kg (94 max reps). VERY little time spent on high rep sets (such as 5-min test mode) was needed, and I'm also a believer in this, thanks to Al Ciampa... don't spend your time in glycolytic land, snatching to find a peak.... Instead, build the base, then test occasionally.

I'm inclined to agree with @GeoffreyLevens on the heavy cleans, although I can only say this theoretically and in hindsight, because I didn't take that approach going into it. And as @Steve Freides said, heavy swings did help too, especially heavy 1H swings. But they don't cover all the bases; although swings gave me a good hip hinge and grip, I was lacking in bicep strength/endurance and shoulder stability when I started in with the heavy snatches. And there's not much that can give you that shoulder stability at the top of the snatch (no, not even heavy get-ups) other than time and practice working up to heavy snatches.

Max reps in 5:00 TSC style. Yes, my last PR was over 100 reps.

Excellent point on identifying my limiting factor. For me my limiters would be: 1) grip, 2) lungs. In that order. My hips usually have plenty to spare even venturing into 10 minute land on ballistics (at least with any weight I can snatch over 10 times lol).

I was slated for an A+A swing protocol, but then took a tumble hiking. I know the A+A protocols are offered on a limited basis...but in general could the snatch be subbed into a swing protocol?

 

[El Cid]

@El Cid, I thought of one other question: Do you like to "sprint snatch" and take breaks when you set the bell down during your 5-minutes? Or do you prefer to have the bell in one hand or the other for the duration?

As grip usually limits me first with a weight increase, I'd likely show the best number of reps in 5:00 if I "sprint" with rest breaks (at least that's been my experience with past weight jumps). However, I prefer to stay busy and always be Snatching, that is, if my grip endurance is up to the task at a given weight.

 

[Anna C]

Max reps in 5:00 TSC style. Yes, my last PR was over 100 reps.

I prefer to stay busy and always be Snatching, that is, if my grip endurance is up to the task at a given weight.

Good... so the goal is 100 or more with a given weight in 5 min, without setting the bell down if possible. And I may be reading into this, but sounds like the 5-min test isn't your true end objective - the real objective is to "own" a new weight, and a successful 5-min test is your measure of when you do.... Agree?

So on your limiters.... grip and lungs. Grip technique definitely improves with heavy snatch practice, and becomes much more efficient. For example, when you learn to be patient in the backswing, there's less strain on the grip from reversing and coming back up. And when you learn to be loose in the grip as the bell is traversing up and down, the grip gets a break. But even so, I still get tired forearms when doing high reps. I did a few sessions just before the TSC of increasing the reps per hand (i.e. 25 snatches R w/ 16kg, rest, then 25 snatches L w/ 16kg). This might be the ticket to being able to hold onto the bell longer. Long and light farmer's carries seem to work those same muscles so I think that might help too; i.e. carry snatch weight for 90 seconds or more, maybe 4 times with some rest in between. As for lungs, this too could be complicated... any improvement in your aerobic condition will help, a good warm-up will help (what do you do before your 5-min test?), good breathing technique during your 5-minutes will help. Just some areas that could be explored.

I was slated for an A+A swing protocol, but then took a tumble hiking. I know the A+A protocols are offered on a limited basis...but in general could the snatch be subbed into a swing protocol?

Yes, but the volume is a bit less, and the approach has been modified somewhat. You could PM Al for more info.

 

[Steve Freides]

What about heavier cleans? For me at least, that has seemed to be a very helpful step as I can do fairly strong, snappy, one hand swings quite a bit heavier than I can clean and it does take a good swing to be able to clean a clean clean if you know what I mean.... Shakespeare

Sure, a heavy clean is a good thing. Typically, the double clean is used as a conditioning exercise, but a single, heavy clean is also a great way to prepare for working with a larger weight. Carry on with those heavy swings and cleans - if the heavy clean is an issue, perhaps post a video for some feedback here.

-S-

 

[GeoffreyLevens]

if the heavy clean is an issue, perhaps post a video for some feedback here.

-S-

What I have found is that while I can only occasionally do a single, shoulder/chest slamming clean w/ 24 kg, I can do 5 or 6 good ones per set with 20 kg and 16 kg cleans are quite good. Pretty sure if I build up a few more reps/set with the 20 I will be able to start hitting the 24. Last few days have learned a lot about timing the launch from the fully hinged position i.e. I have been firing just a fraction too soon and losing power and velocity to fighting momentum instead of gaining them by coming in just as gravity starts to help and momentum of back swing has completely stopped. That learning has come by necessity in a sense, due to getting into high(er) rep snatch sets. Even with a light weight kb, the late set reps really need all the power and velocity I can find in order to have a smooth catch at the top.

 

[Steve Freides]

@GeoffreyLevens, I recommend you try some sets of 10 cleans with your 20 kg - make sure you stop right before your form would deteriorate away from good, but owning 10 reps with one weight will make your singles at almost any kettlebell ballistic better at the next highest weight.

And to keep things in perspective, we want you to clean 24 and then heavier - when you figure out what you're supposed to do and practice it, 32 kg and higher cleans will be possible for you.

-S-

 

[GeoffreyLevens]

Thanks Steve. Right now 5-6 cleans w/ 20 kg is limit for me for "clean" cleans. For me, 24 kg is 1/2 body weight and I have learned that for me going slowly with smaller increments of increase in weight is much better than trying to go the bigger gaps and just power through. I do think 5 sets each side of 10 reps of cleans is good goal to increase weight from so I am on same page I think.

My longer term goal is short snatch sets w/ 24 kg and solid swings and cleans w/ the 32; maybe 10 reps each. And maybe Long cycle- one handed w/ the 32 but again not very high reps. My GS competition weight per my age is only 16 kg, though of course that is for high reps

 

[Steve Freides]

@GeoffreyLevens, then see about 16 kg cleans x 10.

-S-

 

[GeoffreyLevens]

@Steve Freides , that I am close to now but have been working with the 20 on my "strength days" so not 100% certain. Will have to test it and see