Not something I'd recommend generally - happy it's working for you but generally you want to keep shoulders packed, tight, and low during a deadlift.
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Barbell Tips to avoid deadlift injuries
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Steve W.
Level 8 Valued Member
Steve, I don't think he meant to SHRUG the shoulders up, but to think about driving the upper back toward the ceiling (presumably with shoulders packed down).
At least that's how I interpreted his post. I wouldn't expect Ed Coan to recommend shrugging the shoulders up during a back squat.
@Steve W., thinking of pushing the bar up is a pretty common squat cue - I don't think it causes most people to actually perform a shrug because everything up there is pretty locked down by the bar/body position. This is not my area of expertise and by a long ways, too, but when I squat, trying to drive the bar up has been a helpful cue to me.
IOW, I think we're saying the same thing here - but for the DL, it doesn't sound at all good to me.
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IOW, I think we're saying the same thing here - but for the DL, it doesn't sound at all good to me.
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Steve W.
Level 8 Valued Member
TravisDirks
Level 3 Valued Member
Here is something the worked really well for me today. I wonder if those with experience can comment: I was deadlifting and feeling some weirdness/motion from the low back. I also noticed that the low back was feeling more fatigue than normal.
On the next setup I explicitly went through my setup for double KB cleans. Especially paying attention to the cue to push the butt back and a bit up, which feels like it causes a pelvic tilt that stretches the hamstrings. Then I just concentrated on lifting from the glutes. Man it was a totally different lift. Everything felt locked down and solid and the weight just flew up.
I wanted to ask about it because it didn't feel like "neutral" spine, but it was the opposite of rounded.
On the next setup I explicitly went through my setup for double KB cleans. Especially paying attention to the cue to push the butt back and a bit up, which feels like it causes a pelvic tilt that stretches the hamstrings. Then I just concentrated on lifting from the glutes. Man it was a totally different lift. Everything felt locked down and solid and the weight just flew up.
I wanted to ask about it because it didn't feel like "neutral" spine, but it was the opposite of rounded.
Ny Wc
Level 2 Valued Member
I didn't mean to shrug the shoulders. That's an easy way to get back pain. The traps don't actually move. The shoulders are packed and the traps are locked in place. You just push your traps straight up towards the sky. It's funny that you mention driving your back into the bar during squats because that exact cue doesn't work for me. Again, I focus on pushing my traps straight up which is similar but a little different. The cue is a little ambiguous I guess.You definitely can't just lift with your traps and you don't shove your traps up as in towards your ears. You still have to do everything else right.
I find that when I lean back and my hamstrings load up, the bar practically comes up before I'm ready. All I have to do is shove my traps up and hold on.
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Abdul-Rasheed
Level 6 Valued Member
Did you mean by opposite of rounded, an inward curve of the spine?. If that is the case, I believe that is how it should be, right, the curve we naturally have when we stand up straight.
Also, I have the same observations as you, I try to push he hips back as much as possible when I set up, almost to the point of falling back (this is how I am taught) and it helps with the lift a lot.
I must admit, I do not understand what is being talked about here. How can we push traps straight up towards the sky when it actually don't move. Is this more of a cue? Does this mean the two shoulder blades touch each other (shoulders still packed), if I am making any sense?
TravisDirks
Level 3 Valued Member
I think we are talking about the same thing. I'll try to describe in more detail. I take that normal "neutral" spine/standing-spine position and lock it down while I stick my butt as far back as possible, then let me knee flex as much as is required to get down to the bar. This part I was always doing.
The new part: Now that I'm at the bar, I think about making a proud chest and pushing my butt back and up. Not much moves, but it seems like the right things get tight. I feel my glute medius firing (knees out) and my pelvis tilt a bit anteriorly which I feel adding tension to my hamstrings. Now I pull and it all seems to come from the glutes and hamstrings, I don't feel any movement/pain/weirdness in the low back.
(If you were on Geoff Neupert's email list I'm just calling to mind some cues he described well in the context of swings. The emails title was Technique Tuesday - the "Rubber Band" Swing Method?)
Ny Wc
Level 2 Valued Member
The set up is the same. The shoulders are packed like usual (everything is the same) and then when you pull the bar up, you think of it as pushing the traps up.. Pushing the traps up is more of a cue like you said.
Of coarse, your not just lifting with your back. Your hamstrings are supposed to be so loaded that the bar is practically coming off the ground all ready. So your lifting with your legs and hips. You can even turn your feet out and really open up your hips to use them. Then as soon as the bar leaves the ground, you use the cue of pushing your traps up toward the sky as the bar rises. Your shoulders stay packed and you definitely don't pinch your shoulder blades together. The entire back moves as one piece but mentally, you think with the traps. Kind of the mid traps I would say...
If you don't really get what I mean then you should probably ignore it. It may make more sense later even if it's not the cue for you.
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Abdul-Rasheed
Level 6 Valued Member
Thank you for explaining that @TravisDirks and @Ny Wc .
TravisDirks
Level 3 Valued Member
Ok, Both sets are done at 225lbs, which is about 72% of my last 1RM.
Here is my original setup
Here is the new Swing/Clean setup I described
You're tighter in the second one, maybe your shins are a little more vertical.
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TravisDirks
Level 3 Valued Member
Agreed. I think I'm seeing that in the last little bit of drop to the bar, in the first link, I'm losing a little curvature in the low back. And what feels like an exaggerated curvature/pelvic tilt in the second video, it really just me getting back where I was (and at the same time loading the hamstrings).
(This was a nice reminder of the absurd value of the piece of technology we keep in out pockets and mostly waste.)
@TravisDirks don't forget that the idea is to find a position for your lumbar then keep it - starting with it curved in and then having it flatten during the lift isn't the best. My experience: if you really pressurize your belly, you will necessarily flatten out your lourdosis. I recommend doing exactly that, and then striving to keep that position throughout the lift.
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