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Kettlebell To wave the load or not? A contrary point of view from Brooks Kubik

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Marius_Lefter

Marius_Lefter

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Hi all. I am reading a book by Brooks Kubik, lawyer by trade and a very accomplished lifter by vocation. Look after his credentials to know more about him.

The book I am reffering to is called Dinosaur Training. A lot of his ideas resemble the Strong First system and principles. But in one point he is very different: he does not believe in periodization, waving the load, peaking. Over and over again he is repeating that periodization is a waste of valuable training time and energy. He says that periodization is keeping you busy without becoming as big and strong as you can become. As a very accomplished lifter this sounds very strange.

He argues that periodization is for beginners, maybe intermediate level lifters, but not more.

A fragment from the book where he is advocating heavy singles: "[...] plan to train with heavy weights week after week, for a long long time. Forget about 'periodization' programs, conditioning phases or anything similar. Forget about programs where you take 10 or 12 weeks to work up to a single rep effort, then drop down and take another 10 or 12 weeks to get back to another single rep effort. Get to the point where you are training hard and heavy on a consistent basis for a long, long time and watch what happens to your body. A couple of years of heavy singles will transform your body."

What do you guys think of this?
 
Louis Simmons seems to be having decent results with max efforts each week. Daily dose deadlifts work. The body adapts to what you ask of it. Ask it to do 3x10, then 4x8, then 5x5, then 5x3, then 6x1 over 12 weeks and at the end of 12 weeks you'll be able to do 6x1. Ask the body to do 6x1, then 6x1, then 6x1, then 6x1 over 12 weeks and at the end of 12 weeks you'll be able to do 6x1.

I think it comes down to what allows a person to keep training. If 6x1 injures you the first week, then you don't have much accumulated work at the end of 12 weeks. Bulgarian weightlifters trained heavy daily but also reflected survival of the fittest. Strength = Accumulated Work. Injury = No Work. Therefore, Injury ≠ Strength.
 
Most examples of Westside conjugate does periodize by changing max effort exercises (as often as every 1-2 weeks for advanced lifters). So while the 1-3 RM is once per week, the exercise is constantly changing and 80% of lifts are supplemental or accessory movements at lower intensity.
 
Bro Mo said:
I think it comes down to what allows a person to keep training.
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+1

I think a "fundamental truth" of strength training is that you want to lift as much weight as you can, as often as you can, while still remaining within your ability to effectively recover. Obviously, the first two parts of that statement are in opposition to the last part. Programming seems to be all about managing the balance between those oppositional forces of intensity & volume vs recovery.

I'm no expert, but I think periodization is as much mental as physical. It gives people the satisfaction of handling heavy weight (or a lot of volume), but then gives them a break before they can push themselves past the point of productivity. Arguably, you could accomplish the same thing with lots of moderate, consistent work, S&S style. I like consistency, so I keep things moderate and the level of variation is kept to a minimum. I just plug away and slowly accumulate more volume. I don't know if that's actually a better way to train than doing all sorts of load waving, but it fits me better mentally.

That being said, it does seem like hitting the higher loads/volumes for short periods of time, as we see in periodization, generates faster adaptation. It would be interesting to compare the two approaches over a multi-year period.
 
I love Dinosaur Training, it's one of my favorites. It is the book that inspired me to get strong.

When looking at my workouts or goals from 10,000 ft, there are definitely times when I use periodization to get stronger in a specific lift, improve the technical aspects (neurological efficiency and technique), and to maximize the amount of weight I can lift on a specific lift such as powerlifting. To me this, as Dan John would describe, a bus bench program.

There are also times when I just lift heavy every day and continue to push my max single or max reps. This is what I'm doing right now. I happen to be getting stronger, linearly, as it happens, but I am not necessarily planning my workouts weeks and months in advance. This tends to be more bus bench to me. I lift heavy but don't push myself too far into injury (health is first). This is more park bench for me. Under this type of program, I am usually feeling the healthiest and my my general strength or GPP is is better than when I'm peaking. For example, yesterday I did heavy squats and they were tough. However, the weight was only about 50or 55% of my max. But when I do a max squat, I take 20 weeks to prepare and practice, hire a coach and video tape and scrutinize my lifts, wear a belt, wear lifting shoes, and wear knee wraps. My 55% of max squats I did yesterday were with a safety squat bar that I am not technically proficient in, barefoot, wearing nothing but shorts and a aT shirt. And yet I may be stronger now than when I'm peaking.

I think most strength coaches would say to build the base of the pyramid and get strong in general (or GPP) then start peaking, then repeat. I think Brooks is just saying that the peaking is not necessary (unless maybe you compete), just keep focusing on the base of the pyramid and pure strength programs. Who cares if you can squat 500 lbs 1 day every 4 months (unless you are a competitor). How much can you squat any day?
 
I agree peaking plans for a strength enthusiast or cellar dweller never makes sense to me. Peaking for an athletic endevor or competition does make sense.

He is saying working heavy singles builds qualities you can not build any other way. He is not saying max out and kill yourself every workout. He is saying hard work for along time makes you strong.

Periodization is very important for athletes and less important for recreational lifters. Everyone does some form of periodization. Strength is not linear and needs will change over time. If you only do what you have always done you will adapt to that stress and most times start to get weaker.

He uses a lot of partials and overload work which is less taxing on recovery and CNS. He wants to build structures more than muscles. He also did crazy long and high reps workouts, so he did not just work up to singles everyday.

If you are focused on peak strength periodization seems like a waste of time, but often you have to move backward to move forward again.

I like Dinosaur Training a lot. I have read and skimmed it many times, but he contradicts himself a lot. He even says do not believe everything, and try to use, everything he says, even if you get a few principles to grasp onto he has done his job.
 
"A lot of his ideas resemble the Strong First system and principles. But in one point he is very different: he does not believe in periodization, waving the load..."

I'm not sure where this comes from- the S&S book has a section in it where Pavel states there's no periodization in that program, to keep it simple repeatable every day. So, in a flagship program, there's no periodization. Good to use the right tool for the right job at the right time, and if it's not needed, good t o be able to leave it alone. I agree that it's more valuable for experienced athletes,

Periodization serves some good purposes, if done properly. It allows athletes to peak for important meets or races, and allows large increases in volume by compensating with a reduced load to allow recovery. I agree that it's more valuable for experienced athletes, who can handle and recover from the heavier volumes. No reason to be dogmatic about it, though, either way. Use it if it's helpful, don't if it overly complicates.
 
On Wendler 5/3/1 I was doing the Joker Sets for about four months. I was doing heavy singles every three weeks. I was making great progress until life caught up with me and I let my recovery slip. Then I started going backward.

I recently switched to a Boring But Big protocol. It has higher reps and no singles. You could add the Joker Sets if you want, but I will do the basic program until I build back some work capacity again.

The problem with low volume training is work capacity diminishes. Personally I have found my ability to do work is closely related to my recovery and tolerance to stifffness and soreness.
 
The quote (unsure where it came from originally but I first heard from Charles Staley) is-

In order for there to be a peak by definition it requires to be surrounded by two valleys.

Hitting the best you can be takes a toll on the body, it also requires periods of base building - a pyramids height is limited by the width of its base.

Does this apply to people who just want to be 'generally' strong? Possibly not.
 
Marius_Lefter said:
...he does not believe in periodization, waving the load, peaking. Over and over again he is repeating that periodization is a waste of valuable training time and energy. He says that periodization is keeping you busy without becoming as big and strong as you can become. As a very accomplished lifter this sounds very strange.
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Periodiaztion Training

Books is a smart guy but somewhere his train jumped the track on Periodization Training; which has proven via science and empirical data, to be necessary for optimizing your results. That providing the program is well written and executed.

Night And Day.

The world revolves around night and day, a time to work, play and rest (sleep).

Based on Brook belief, play and rest is a waste of valuable time. You'll get further ahead if you limit play and rest and just focus on work.

Training

In this case, Training is work. When executed with a well written program, it provide stress that stimulates the body to adapt and become stronger, However, that stress must allow for...

Recovery

This ensure allows time to adapt, recover and become stronger.

Active Recovery

This is incorporated into all good training program. A well written program contain planned periods (Periodization Training Protocols) that are fairly light and easy which progress to a training week with an all out effort. A good training program contains this type of continuous cycle; like Night and Day or the Ebb and Flow of the ocean.

As Snowman stated, the recovery process is a vital metal as well as physical component. At some point, you mentally "Burn Out".

Traditional Periodization Training

This means phases of ...

1) General Physical Prepardness Training

2) Hypertrophy Training

3) Limit Strength Training

4) Power or Speed Training

I am not a fan of it. However, research has demonstrated that it is effective.

Non-Linear Periodization Training

This plan revolves around shorter training cycles in which intensity and generally exercise are changed in shorter time periods. It also incorporates Active Recovery.

The Foundation of Periodization Training is built on...

The General Adaptation Syndrome

This means periods of planned recovery and times to push hard.

This has to do in part with...

"Wound Healing"

This is one of the underlying components of The General Adaptation Syndrome.

Research simply reinforces common sense on this. The greater the stress/trauma place on the body, the longer the recovery time required.

Continuously long term heavy training eventually lead to "Overreading". Continuing to push yourself in "Overreaching" eventually lead to "Overtraining"; digging a deeper hole that takes you longer to get out of, i.e. Wound Healing.

Marius_Lefter said:
...plan to train with heavy weights week after week, for a long long time.
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A Recipe or Disaster

Constant continuous heavy training for "a long, long time" ensures that you physically and mentally are going to burn out; along with increasing your chances of injury.

Marius_Lefter said:
Get to the point where you are training hard and heavy on a consistent basis for a long, long time and watch what happens to your body. A couple of years of heavy singles will transform your body."
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Continuous Long, Hard, Heavy Training Transformation

This approach provides short term rather than long term results.

An interesting caveat on this is the...

The Bulgarian Vs Russian Method

The Bulgarian produced literally over night champions by pushing long, hard and heavy training sessions with multiple daily training sessions.

They were noted for their near high max daily training loads. However, those training load were based on their Training Max rather than their Competition Max.

The Russian used a longer Periodization Training Program. The Russian based their training percentages off their Competition Max rather than their Training Max.

Thus, the Bulgarian Training Percentage Load intensity was relative the same as the Russians.

The Comparisons of Bulgarian and Russian Results

1) The Russian had the same lifers dominate Olympic Lifting, year after year. Their lifter had a longer "Lifting Life Span", so to speak.

2) The Bulgarian had overnight results with short a "Short Lifting Life Span". The only Bulgarian Olympic Lifter that dominated for years was, Naim Suleymanoglu. Naim Suleymanoglu eventually lifted for Turkey because they paid him more money.

Summary

"...Training hard and heavy on a consistent basis for a long, long time" is a recipe for disaster.

Kenny Croxdale
 
apa said:
I am not too familiar with his work but didn't old time strongmen do lots of singles training?
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Heavy Singles

Heavy singles, double or triples are integral part of any Limit Strength Training Program (1 Repetition Max Training). As a Powerlifter, I have employed them for decades.

However, heavy near max singles need to be used sparingly; performed in a progressively overload Periodization Training Program.

Non-Linear Periodization Training Program Example

Let's base this on a three week Cycle.

Week 1: Think of it like a "Warm Up Set". Your top set should be fairly easy.

Week 2: Increase the work load on the top set to be moderately hard.

Week 3: Increase the work load on your top set to be a max or near max effort.

Week 4: This become Week 1; dramatically drop the load to just a little more than you did in your first cycle. Then follow the same protocol above.

The objective in Week 3 of the new cycle is to push/pull more than you did in your previous Week 3.

Again, think of each each week as a "Warm Up Set" for the following week.

apa said:
Doug hepburn method

Doug Hepburn: Power & Pump Routines | Myosynthesis
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Doug Hepburns: Power and Pump Routine

There isn't much Power and virtually No Pump in this program.

1) The Pumps. The Pump is produced with "Metabolic Stress". To produce it, 8 Repetition and higher per set need to be preformed, with short rest periods between sets, with load of around 65 to 80% of 1 Repetition Max.

Higher repetition pump blood into the muscles. The continuous muscle contraction restricts blood flow back to the heart; blood is trapped in the muscle blowing the muscles up like a balloon.

Lactate accumulates in the muscle producing a down stream anabolic hormonal cascade, muscle building effect.

This article advocates lower repetitions that work for increasing Limit Strength but does not produce a Pump.

2) Power: Traditional Exercise (Squat, Bench Press, Deadlift, etc) produce Power with load of 47 to 62% of your 1 Repetition Max for set of 1 -3 Repetitions.

This article provide some quazi-Power Training instruction.

"He (Hepburn) felt the Pump program was overkill and probably did him more harm than good."

Yes and No.

Hypertrophy "Pump" Training is the primary key to increasing muscle mass. The downside is when Hypertrophy Training is used exclusively, Power and Limit Strength decrease.

However, when Hypertrophy Training is implemented in a well written Conjugate Training (multiple type of Strength trained in the same program), it elicits an increase in Power and Strength.

Dr Michael Zourdos' Non-Linear Periodization Strength Training Research

Zourdos (a Powerlifter) found a synergistic effect occurs when combining different type of Strength into one program; Strength, Power and Muscle Mass increase.

Westside Powerlifting Method

This method incorporates Limit Strength, Power and Hypertrophy as a mean of increasing Limit Strength. It been around since around 1980.

Growth Factor Shoulder Training | T Nation

Chinese-Lifter.jpg


Chinese Olympic Lifters, "...do plenty of rows, dips, and pull-ups for higher reps (8-10). They often go for 6 sets of 8-10 reps with short rest periods on several bodybuilding exercises at the end of their session. ...they understand that muscle moves weight, ..."

Kenny Croxdale
 
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apa said:
I am not too familiar with his work but didn't old time strongmen do lots of singles training?

Edit. Some food for thought. Doug hepburn method

Doug Hepburn: Power & Pump Routines | Myosynthesis
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So I can definitely attest to the effectiveness of this routine. I personally love heavy and simple. I also like adding reps rather than weight as the workouts progress. Which is probably why I like the ROP system because you are adding reps not load. Nice link
 
I have cycled between conjugate and easy strength routines for several phases now. I can say based on experience that there is a difference between improving strength and getting good at a lift. The easy strength method will make you stronger but this is primarily due to the frequency and volume of practice reps. The conjugate method works by max effort with a compound lift . This is based on high mechanical tension. Both getvtou stronger but through different mechanisms.

If we set aside the fact that many lifters on the conjugate system long term could have drug support(that’s a tangled web), consistently maxing out with loads over 90% has a detrimental effect on the CNS. Which is why it’s tough to sustain that kind of training. It’s also not enough practice to get good at a particular lift. I’ve seem this work great for lifters with a high training age.

The periodization is great because it gives a lot of practice reps at a lift which could be good for intermediate/beginner. The problem is by the time you are at a point max, the training effect from the previous phase has started to fade.

I think a question that should be answered prior to starting a program is whether you want to improve a lift or improve overall strength for carryover to something else.
 
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