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Kettlebell Total Volume / 30 minutes

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Im out

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Lately I set a timer on 30 minutes and just perform a fixed number of reps for as many sets possible. Without racing the clock.

So far its been going wel.
I perform C&J and MP in 2 week blocks. And for both exercises I use my theoretical 15RM for C&P, which is a pair of 16s.

So far I got 75 reps of c & j and 85 reps of MP for my best sessions. Using sets of 5 reps.

I wonder at how many reps (total) I should consider increase the weight, when the goal is strength and muscle?
 
I would say that you should bump up to 20’s and see how you feel after a session.
Or increase your reps per round on the movements your doing now.
How many reps are you doing at a time now. I see your total reps, what range are you working in to get the total that you are getting?
If doing sets of 5 jump to 8-10 and see how that works for you.
 
Lately I set a timer on 30 minutes and just perform a fixed number of reps for as many sets possible. Without racing the clock.

So far its been going wel.
I perform C&J and MP in 2 week blocks. And for both exercises I use my theoretical 15RM for C&P, which is a pair of 16s.

So far I got 75 reps of c & j and 85 reps of MP for my best sessions. Using sets of 5 reps.

I wonder at how many reps (total) I should consider increase the weight, when the goal is strength and muscle?

How difficult are the sets of 5?
5 reps of a 15RM effort sounds light, I'd consider closer to half of the RM for 7-8 reps, or increase the loading.

A lot depends on how you feel at minute 31.
 
A lot depends on how you feel at minute 31.

This and the goal/purpose.

I like a wavy approach but I'm not bothered by time.
Have you thought about introducing some waviness to the volume? Linear v wave - article on the blog about reload v strong endurance, for instance and plenty of blog articles about percentages to aim for etc.....
 
How difficult are the sets of 5?
5 reps of a 15RM effort sounds light, I'd consider closer to half of the RM for 7-8 reps, or increase the loading.

A lot depends on how you feel at minute 31.

progression table.png

I'm not wrecked at 31th minute. Can sneak up on more total reps, but would it do much for my goal ?
 
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I'm not wrecked at 31th minute. Can sneak up on more total reps, but would it do much for my goal ?

For strength and size I'd say you want to increase the reps per set or keep them at around 5 but increase the load. Otherwise I'd say a great deal of your volume is not going toward any meaningful adaptive response.

Looking at the chart it does appear you're advancing toward higher rep counts, which is a good thing in this case. How do the 7 and 9 rep sessions feel?

Right now you're using approx 60-65% of your RM and doing 30% of your capacity per set on the 5 rep days. With loads like that I'd be thinking 7 reps minimum or higher, 10 per set.

Personally I'd be thinking about increasing the load to your 10 RM and do 4-7 reps/set if training for volume. When you get down to 65% RM the literature would suggest you train to failure or at least higher per-set intensities (as a measure of momentary capacity, not loading).

This is a pretty interesting read for a study where the subjects worked at 60% RM for sets of 10 and increased set counts as the only variable.

A Thorough Breakdown of the “Extreme Volume Study” • Stronger by Science
 
How do the 7 and 9 rep sessions feel?

Haven't tried yet. I don't think my lunges etc can even take doing sets of 9 for 30 minutes on C&J (atm). I'll stick with the chart and tomorrow (friday) is my first day of doing 6s. But what you say makes sense. 10RM with 4/7 reps per set. Thanks for your insight. I feel my current 'gains' lean more towards endurance, which is what i never focus on :)

That study you linked is way too huge for a read....
 
Haven't tried yet. I don't think my lunges etc can even take doing sets of 9 for 30 minutes on C&J (atm). I'll stick with the chart and tomorrow (friday) is my first day of doing 6s. But what you say makes sense. 10RM with 4/7 reps per set. Thanks for your insight. I feel my current 'gains' lean more towards endurance, which is what i never focus on :)

That study you linked is way too huge for a read....

I can see where your current schedule would lean toward endurance, I've recently increased my metcon quotient to see what it does for both my heavier resistance work and to see if it will maintain my recovery levels without any LSD or HIIT. Mostly interested in the former over the latter, I can always add a session of HIIT to my week if I need to.

Normally I try to keep the two separate. Am not a fan of doing strength work and muscular endurance stuff on the same day or even with the same tools unless minimalism is a prerequisite.

As for the study, these two charts sums up the construction. Added to this they did increase load when their subjective RIR (reps in reserve) went above 3 - 4. They started out at 20+20 sets upper/lower total 40. By the end of the study they were doing 64+64 and pretty wiped but most made OK gains. It wasn't meant as an actual training template, so much as a volume study.


Screen-Shot-2019-01-02-at-12.47.31-PM.png



Screen-Shot-2019-01-02-at-12.47.23-PM.png




Implications
a.) If you go very high RIR to begin with and don’t increase bar weight, you can recover from lots of sets, more than most expected. At least one potential insight we can glean from this is that when people claim success with exceedingly high-volume programs, we should be very interested in their per-set RIR before drawing any tentative conclusions based on their experience. A 40-set program of compound lifts with 5 RIR averages can be survivable, whereas the same program with 0 RIR might be highly prohibitive.

b.) Because both high RIR and stable bar weight are likely not the best ideas for consistent real-world training, lower RIR and increasing bar weights are likely to cause more fatigue on a per-set basis, meaning that the total number of sets you can tolerate is probably lower than the set volume used in this study.

c.) Subjects were probably near or beyond their MRVs by the time they were doing 30 sets per muscle group per week at the end of this program. Since higher loads and lower RIRs will likely cause more fatigue per set, it’s unlikely that most people’s MRVs will be greater than 30 sets per muscle group per week in most practical settings. This gives us some insight as to the limits of volume progression in practice.

However, it stands to reason that stable bar weights in the context of overloading other training parameters (e.g. frequency, rest intervals, reps per set, total sets, etc.) might be a good option in some contexts, considering that hypertrophy was observed using the volume progression in this study. Stated differently, load progression for hypertrophy isn’t the ONLY way to productively overload training for hypertrophy, and it wasn’t necessary in this study to elicit a hypertrophic effect for some subjects. Future research can help clarify specific effects of load progression, frequency progression, or other progression styles to better understand adaptive responses.
 
How about upping the weight once you can surpass the total number of reps that you currently have....or upping the weight once you have beaten your total rep tally twice?

So if you take your 85 MP total....next time you get 88 in the same time, the time after you get 90 - then up the weight. It might take a few sessions to beat your total twice - thats ok, it will happen.

Richard
 
How about upping the weight once you can surpass the total number of reps that you currently have....or upping the weight once you have beaten your total rep tally twice?

So if you take your 85 MP total....next time you get 88 in the same time, the time after you get 90 - then up the weight. It might take a few sessions to beat your total twice - thats ok, it will happen.

Richard

Because so far I've been progressing lineair, because the weight I use is light. But it is a good suggestion. I will keep this in mind for future sessions :D
 
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@Shawn90, you might find reading up on Bryce Lane's 50/20 program useful. Basically you'd take a compound lift or two, start with a weight you could manage 30 reps in 20 minutes with, and work up to getting 50 reps in 20 minutes.

There are lots of ways to work this, and you can tweak the focus by tweaking the target rep range, e.g., you could pick a weight you can do 200 snatches in 10 minutes with (that comes from the Rite of Passage), then move up in weight, which will mean you start with fewer reps, and work your way back up to 200.

If your goal is strength and hypertrophy, I don't think a 15RM weight is your best choice. I'd say an 8RM weight where you do sets of 3-5 reps would be better, and a 5RM you do with singles, doubles and triples would really be the ticket. I'd also consider making some sort of squat part of what you do.

-S-
 
I'd also consider making some sort of squat part of what you do.

Sound advice. But i really dont want more muscle in my legs. My thighs already touch when i stand normally and the chafing spot (itchy...)is almost gone (took few weeks)

The progression table i use is partly from rmf . And thus for the C&J. I noticed some huge increase in my MP capability after a.block of C&J.

Theres a 2nd 20kg bell on its way. So ill increase the weight after finishing my current block
 
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