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Other/Mixed Training Guidance

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
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Jonathan796

Level 1 Valued Member
Hey everyone,
I just recently joined the forums, but I have been following Pavel and StrongFirst since I was 16. I am now 18 and an EMT in the perfect climate of Minnesota (winter included).

I just graduated high school and am finishing up my enlistment into the Army. I am 6’3” and about 220 pounds, and I would say I have a pretty athletic build.

I recently had surgery on both of my labrum back in December of 2017, otherwise I am injury free. I have performed a functional movement screen, and I move well.

I played football, baseball, was a thrower in track and field (thanks to Pavel’s education did pretty well), and I have ski raced competitively for some time.

I am finishing my enlistment into the Army, and have always pursued the mentality and embodiment of a warrior and functional strength. Now that I am no longer tied to a high school training program I have been training with a good trainer, but I feel I am not performing as much functional exercising as I could be. my goals in life are to pursue medicine and serve others, hopefully in a tactical medicine environment, and build mental grit and a warrior mindset. My current weaknesses are running past 2 miles, some body weight movements and exercises such as pull-ups and push ups, and I’m always looking to improve my ruck marching. I have never been a strong aerobic/endurance athlete. Any guidance and advice would be much appreciated!
 
Jonathan796 said:
Hey everyone,
I just recently joined the forums, but I have been following Pavel and StrongFirst since I was 16. I am now 18 and an EMT in the perfect climate of Minnesota (winter included).

I just graduated high school and am finishing up my enlistment into the Army. I am 6’3” and about 220 pounds, and I would say I have a pretty athletic build.

I recently had surgery on both of my labrum back in December of 2017, otherwise I am injury free. I have performed a functional movement screen, and I move well.

I played football, baseball, was a thrower in track and field (thanks to Pavel’s education did pretty well), and I have ski raced competitively for some time.

I am finishing my enlistment into the Army, and have always pursued the mentality and embodiment of a warrior and functional strength. Now that I am no longer tied to a high school training program I have been training with a good trainer, but I feel I am not performing as much functional exercising as I could be. my goals in life are to pursue medicine and serve others, hopefully in a tactical medicine environment, and build mental grit and a warrior mindset. My current weaknesses are running past 2 miles, some body weight movements and exercises such as pull-ups and push ups, and I’m always looking to improve my ruck marching. I have never been a strong aerobic/endurance athlete. Any guidance and advice would be much appreciated!
Click to expand...
First... welcome to SF.
Also congratulations on graduation, EMT training, and Army Enlistment, and some nobel life goals.

What is the timing of your enlistment? I ask because once the Army gets a hold of you, you won't need a training programme for a while, if you get my meaning.

If your arrival in basic training is months/years out then that is a different story.

The good thing is that there is a ton of programming available to help address your stated weaknesses... and there are a lot of knowledgeable and well meaning people here to offer advice.

The most usual first advice given here is this:
  • Make sure you are medically cleared to train. (In your case I would check with PT/Doc regarding labrum related restrictions... 2017 is pretty recent)
  • If you plan on embarking on any serious bodyweight, BB, or KB training, and if you have the means, consider taking a SF course or get some hands on skill coaching, preferably by an SFG, SFL, or SFB instructor.
Again welcome, and knowing your timing will help people frame some appropriate responses...
 
If you have a couple months, definitely start doing some MAF style endurance work to build up your aerobic base, with both rucking and running. The bodyweight stuff will come along as you work on it, being tall and heavy you're at a bit of a disadvantage. My knee jerk reaction is to tell you to start a program with a mix of aerobic work, higher rep bodyweight work, and low-rep strength work. That being said, I agree with @offwidth that knowing your timeframe is important.

Jonathan796 said:
mentality and embodiment of a warrior
Click to expand...
Jonathan796 said:
build mental grit and a warrior mindset
Click to expand...

So, there's a book out there, called Extreme Ownership. It's written by a couple of retired SEALs; Jocko Willink and Leif Babin. Jocko also has a very popular podcast, fittingly called Jocko Podcast. If you want to get your mind right, read the book and give the podcasts a listen. I know it sounds trite to say "read this book to learn about being a warrior," but I listen to the podcast on a regular basis, and I often think "Why wasn't this around when I was in?!" Not that I was a bad soldier, but I would have been a much better one.
 
Snowman said:
So, there's a book out there, called Extreme Ownership. It's written by a couple of retired SEALs; Jocko Willink and Leif Babin. Jocko also has a very popular podcast, fittingly called Jocko Podcast. If you want to get your mind right, read the book and give the podcasts a listen. I know it sounds trite to say "read this book to learn about being a warrior," but I listen to the podcast on a regular basis, and I often think "Why wasn't this around when I was in?!" Not that I was a bad soldier, but I would have been a much better one.
Click to expand...
Seconded.
 
I should add, if your strength baseline is good enough, you would probably benefit more from A+A power training instead of the regular barbell strength work. Your physical goals, in my opinion, should be to get strong enough and develop the highest aerobic capacity you can. How you pursue those depends on how strong you already are. As far as aerobic capacity, most people under the age of 30 aren't even close to maxing that out (and you said your endurance wasn't great), so I think we can assume that you'll benefit from working on that.
 
Always start with the requirements for the job. You face the APFT to stay employed and should focus your training on improving it.
  1. For your run, work on 200-800m intervals to improve your pacing. I like 600m runs @ 2:30-3:00 pace followed by walking the remaining 200m around the track which takes about 3min (so ~6min each interval). Run 4 intervals 3-4 times per week. As you get closer, move down to 400m and then 200m and increase the number of intervals and the pace a little.
  2. The Fighter Pull-Up Program (FPP) is a great way to start boosting calisthenics numbers. The program can be applied to push-ups and sit-ups just as well as pull-ups.
Once you're in and have more liberty in how you train to do your job, or you face the combat readiness test, consider other programs but for now worry about the APFT.
 
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Awesome thank you
offwidth said:
First... welcome to SF.
Also congratulations on graduation, EMT training, and Army Enlistment, and some nobel life goals.

What is the timing of your enlistment? I ask because once the Army gets a hold of you, you won't need a training programme for a while, if you get my meaning.

If your arrival in basic training is months/years out then that is a different story.

The good thing is that there is a ton of programming available to help address your stated weaknesses... and there are a lot of knowledgeable and well meaning people here to offer advice.

The most usual first advice given here is this:
  • Make sure you are medically cleared to train. (In your case I would check with PT/Doc regarding labrum related restrictions... 2017 is pretty recent)
  • If you plan on embarking on any serious bodyweight, BB, or KB training, and if you have the means, consider taking a SF course or get some hands on skill coaching, preferably by an SFG, SFL, or SFB instructor.
Again welcome, and knowing your timing will help people frame some appropriate responses...
Click to expand...

I have been training since May with a trainer I have known since my high school football days, he really did a good job at developing me into an explosive and strong athlete. I am looking at potentially leaving in the month of October. I currently can sprint a mile in 6 minutes flat, but my challenge is maintaining a pace and also bringing that 6 minute mile down.
 
Snowman said:
If you have a couple months, definitely start doing some MAF style endurance work to build up your aerobic base, with both rucking and running. The bodyweight stuff will come along as you work on it, being tall and heavy you're at a bit of a disadvantage. My knee jerk reaction is to tell you to start a program with a mix of aerobic work, higher rep bodyweight work, and low-rep strength work. That being said, I agree with @offwidth that knowing your timeframe is important.




So, there's a book out there, called Extreme Ownership. It's written by a couple of retired SEALs; Jocko Willink and Leif Babin. Jocko also has a very popular podcast, fittingly called Jocko Podcast. If you want to get your mind right, read the book and give the podcasts a listen. I know it sounds trite to say "read this book to learn about being a warrior," but I listen to the podcast on a regular basis, and I often think "Why wasn't this around when I was in?!" Not that I was a bad soldier, but I would have been a much better one.
Click to expand...

great I will see if I can get a copy, and I am definitley going to check out the media on it. I found a ted talk that I will check out.
 
Snowman said:
I should add, if your strength baseline is good enough, you would probably benefit more from A+A power training instead of the regular barbell strength work. Your physical goals, in my opinion, should be to get strong enough and develop the highest aerobic capacity you can. How you pursue those depends on how strong you already are. As far as aerobic capacity, most people under the age of 30 aren't even close to maxing that out (and you said your endurance wasn't great), so I think we can assume that you'll benefit from working on that.
Click to expand...

any guides to aerobic development and progression? I am very green to anything past 100m, and am still learning about pacing myself and understanding the discomfort of long distance running.
 
Bro Mo said:
Always start with the requirements for the job. You face the APFT to stay employed and should focus your training on improving it.
  1. For your run, work on 200-800m intervals to improve your pacing. I like 600m runs @ 2:30-3:00 pace followed by walking the remaining 200m around the track which takes about 3min (so ~6min each interval). Run 4 intervals 3-4 times per week. As you get closer, move down to 400m and then 200m and increase the number of intervals and the pace a little.
  2. The Fighter Pull-Up Program (FPP) is a great way to start boosting calisthenics numbers. The program can be applied to push-ups and sit-ups just as well as pull-ups.
Once you're in and have more liberty in how you train to do your job, or you face the combat readiness test, consider other programs but for now worry about the APFT.
Click to expand...

I will include these intervals for sure thank you. And I have been using the fighter pull up program for about a month now and am moving up to 20 pound pull ups. I respond well to the weight. Plateaued during the body weight portion.
 
Since I have about 2 months until I leave, I will seek out kettlebell instruction, but if that does not happen, my thought was I would like to set up a program for when I get with my unit so that I can start exercising and prepare myself for any schools/selections I might volunteer for.
 
Jonathan796 said:
any guides to aerobic development and progression?
Click to expand...
My understanding is that the best way to develop long term aerobic adaptations is through good old fashioned Long Slow Distance work. I was on the High Intensity Interval Training bandwagon for quite a while, but it just doesn't deliver the long term results. The majority of you aerobic base-building work should be running, rucking, swimming, etc at a very comfortable heart rate. The MAF formula (180-age) will give you a decent approximation of your maximum training heart rate, but there actually seems to be some value in staying a little bit below that.

All that being said, it's a process that take times. Months and years. Doing a couple low intensity recovery runs each week might be all you can do right now, if you're also trying to improve everything else. Get a feel for it now, and do it for the rest of your life.

Jonathan796 said:
pacing myself and understanding the discomfort of long distance running.
Click to expand...
Pacing is just something you have to get a feel for on the track, or using a GPS watch that can tell you your pace.

As far as the discomfort part, the majority of your long distance training shouldn't be all that uncomfortable. It might be long and boring, but you should be able to throw on some music or a podcast and cruise for a while. If you can't, your heart rate is probably getting too high for too long. Most people have to take the first step towards real aerobic development with a big ol' slice of humble pie. It feels weird to walk the hills and run slow, but this will not be the only time you'll have to sacrifice your pride on the alter of effective training ;)
 
I'll second everything that @Snowman said, but I'll add this. LSD is a bit of a misnomer. I prefer to call it LED and here's the reason why. The S in LSD is for Slow. And yes it may be slow at first. But in reality you want it to be Easy 'E'.

Easy doesn't necessarily mean Slow. Once you become aerobically adapted you will be able to go much faster at an easy pace.
 
@mprevost has good info on the ruck training, his 9 week training programme is here. Has some good explanation in there too, which will help you decide what parts to incorporate into your training plan.
 
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offwidth said:
I'll second everything that @Snowman said, but I'll add this. LSD is a bit of a misnomer. I prefer to call it LED and here's the reason why. The S in LSD is for Slow. And yes it may be slow at first. But in reality you want it to be Easy 'E'.

Easy doesn't necessarily mean Slow. Once you become aerobically adapted you will be able to go much faster at an easy pace.
Click to expand...

Yes, the cross country runners I worked with at the Naval Academy had a LSD pace of a 6 minute mile (give or take) , which they could hold easily for 10-12 mile "easy" training runs. It was truly an easy pace for elite runners. They got this fast largely from week after week of 100-120 mile per week mileage, mostly at a zone 2 pace (easy to steady).
 
mprevost said:
Yes, the cross country runners I worked with at the Naval Academy had a LSD pace of a 6 minute mile (give or take) , which they could hold easily for 10-12 mile "easy" training runs. It was truly an easy pace for elite runners. They got this fast largely from week after week of 100-120 mile per week mileage, mostly at a zone 2 pace (easy to steady).
Click to expand...

I appreciate the in-site. Is there a program out there to help with building up weekly mileage? I was looking at your PDFs and found them to be very informative. I am at 5 to 6 miles a week on running, and recently have started putting in about 6 miles of rucking, slowly working my mileage up. I am just trying to figure out how to fit this all into my weight lifting regime.
 
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