Barbell Twice a week Deadlift

[305pelusa]

Long story short, I'll be hitting a gym 2 times a week for the next 12 weeks. I've decided to mainly focus on Deadlifting, although I'm open to other assistance work.

Max is 350 lbs at a Bodyweight of 140. I never Deadlift unless I want to try for a max with some friends. Technique is good as far as I'm aware. I think it would be unbelievable if I could reach 420 by the end (triple BW DL). I don't think 70 lbs to add is impossible, especially for someone who essentially never Deadlifts (so plenty of fast adaptations at the beginning). Well anyways I mainly just want a stronger DL.

Anyone have any recommended twice a week routines? With sets/reps all figured out for me? Any thoughts? Figured I'd ask here instead of just follow another one online. Thanks!

 

[ShawnM]

@305pelusa- Mondays start with 3 singles at say 275 and add 2 singles a week until you hit 15 reps. Add 20 pounds and repeat. Assistance work would depend on your stance and set up. Thursdays start with 8 sets of 2 speed pulls from a 2" deficit at 50%. follow with rack pulls at say 75% in a 5x5 LP fashion. Add 10lbs when you get all 5 sets for 5 reps. Heavy 2HS help my deads a ton.

 

[D-Rock]

An option

Kettlebells and Deadlifts, Part 2

This was written for kettlebells and deadlifts, alternating sessions between the two. It is a neat deadlift cycle. I really don't think it would be a stretch to just adapt the schedule to twice per week deadlifting. I actually dropped the kettlebell portion and tried it for 3 times a week deadlifting and really liked it.

Furthermore, if you choose the second cycle with 12 sessions, you could run through it twice in your twelve week period!

It's pretty straightforward, idea is to pull a double with the weight of your current single the session before you try for a new weight. It is based on a "sort of max", so I would suggest knocking some off your 350 to base the cycle on, especially if the max was awhile back and since you don't deadlift very often.

 

[David S]

Another option to consider may be this outline posted in the tsc section by @Ryan Toshner .

• Train 2x/week

• Warm up by doing one set each x5, 3, 2 (at easy-to-calculate weights... I just used 225, 315, something under that day's working weight... which ended up being about 60%, 75%, & 90% of the day's working weight)

• Do one set each x5, 3, 2 at the working weight; start the program at about 70% of 1RM

• Add 5-15 lbs (3-5% of 1RM) total each session (keep this the same throughout the program... i.e. add 10 lbs every session) until you reach your 5RM

• Next session, add weight as usual, but only do x3 and 2

• Next session, only do x2

• Next session, test your 1RM (if TSC day); otherwise re-start the program @ 10-20 lbs more than the first time around

• Do 3x5 back-off sets at about 70% effort with an alternate stance (i.e. sumo if you normally do conventional, and vice versa)

I can get to the gym twice a week , so have been doing this for a few weeks, along with the program minimum a couple of times a week, and so far so good. Worth checking out the thread to see the context.

All the best.

 

[pet']

Hello,

3 * 3 or 5 * 5. Both are done with a percentage of your 1RM. The first one will have less volume but it is closer to your 1RM. On a twice a week basis, it lets you time to rest. A 3 reps approach is proven solid, efficient and simple.

In the gym, if you have access to heavy kb, some heavy 2H swings would definitely help you to lift more. From my experience, heavy swings are a powerful assitance to DL. The first time I DL, I did it with 2X bdw (thanks to S&S).

I edit this message after reading the Dr. Hartle last article. I think it can interest you, @305pelusa. A mix between volume and quality.
http://www.strongfirst.com/quality-and-quantity/

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[305pelusa]

Really great options thus far, I appreciate it.

Maybe I'm over my head, but since I'll only be Deadlifting twice a week, I'm looking for something that goes a bit higher in volume in the hopes of adding a lot of weight to my max.
@ShawnM : This sounds like a good routine, but the issue is that I think it's a bit slow. It would take 6 weeks just to put on 20 lbs on my singles. I could most likely pull 275 for like 10 reps so I feel like the first few sessions are just kind of a waste. Is this well-founded?

@D-Rock : Thank you very much for the article (as well as Part 1!). It's definitely something along the lines of what I'm looking for. The only issue is that if I'm making my 1 RM into a double every 6 weeks, it also seems a bit slow no?

Also, I pulled 350 about 6 months ago yes. However, I did it without any Deadlifting previously either, just a warm-up. There's so many terms nowadays thrown in SF (max, "sort of max", 1R Technical Max) so I don't know what to call it. It's the weight I could lift any day if you asked me to, as long as you let me warm up and psyche up a bit.

@David S : That program looks very promising! I like that it's a bit higher in volume (3 warm-up sets, 3 work sets, 3 back-off sets) and I like that the weight goes up quickly. I have never pulled sumo, but for an alternate stance, do you think I could pick something from PTTP? Say like Snatch-grip DL, or conventional on a deficit?

I have no idea what thread you got it from. Any link? I'll definitely check it out right now.

@pet' : At the moment, I'm looking for something that ideally tells me % and sets/reps because I don't want to mess this up.

The idea of the KB swings after is interesting though. I will have access to KBs as well.

Would it be fine to do a normal DL routine, and then just 100 swings after?

 

[pet']

Hello,

Would it be fine to do a normal DL routine, and then just 100 swings after?

Depending on your state after the DL (tired or not) you could do the swings after. However, maybe not the heavy 100 (at least at the beginning) because it could be quite taxing.

I would start about 60 - 70 the first time, just to see how it goes. It would be a kind of test. If that is ok, go for higher reps.

Here is frame of Pavel:
Kettlebells and Deadlifts Go Together Like Vodka and Pickles

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[D-Rock]

so I feel like the first few sessions are just kind of a waste. Is this well-founded?

It depends. For someone with "beginner gains" so to speak, they might keep responding even if they start at a higher intensity. For a long cycle, or for someone who has been at it awhile, the easy sessions at first are useful to "build momentum" as I believe Stuart McRoberts has said. In some curl or press programs I tried from Dinosaur Training, I started ridiculously easy. But it was really neat how long I could keep adding poundage each time. You don't want to waste sessions especially if you only have x amount of weeks, but you also don't want to start too heavy because if you burn out before the end of the cycle then you wasted your whole cycle! To quote from the first deadlift vodka and pickles article "The deadlift severely punishes those who overextend themselves—and rewards those who treat it as a practice, not a challenge."

The only issue is that if I'm making my 1 RM into a double every 6 weeks, it also seems a bit slow no?

Again it depends. For someone expecting a lot of progress in the beginning like yourself, it might seem slow. I will let others weigh in as well, but it is decent progress. I myself would be happy if I could pull a double with what was once my 1RM in 6 weeks. And you never know what kind of reserves you have. In other words, by time you get to a double with your previous single, who knows how much you have got in you when it's time to test your progress, it could be a significant gain.

Whatever program you choose I still think an interesting option is to include two cycles so you can take the first cycle somewhat conservatively to get used to deadlifting on a regular basis, then really get after it the second cycle.

It's the weight I could lift any day if you asked me to, as long as you let me warm up and psyche up a bit.

If that's the case, I don't see a problem with basing the Vodka and Pickles cycle off this number

Also, just want to say IMO pulling 350 at your weight without deadlifting before is pretty incredible. I weigh a little bit more than you, and it took a couple cycles to get to twice bodyweight. Do you think your bodyweight skills and training had a good carryover? I have heard of gymnasts having some insane deadlifts without ever training it because they have really good coordination and understand how to get really tight and build tension.

 

[Steve Freides]

I think the Bear protocol would fit here.

-S-

 

[Manuel Fortin]

If you never in your life did a linear cycle of deadlifts, this could be an option before getting to more complex programs. Look for example at ‘Unrealistic’ Athletic Goals: Why and How to Pursue Them . Doing the optional light day will give you 50 lifts a week at the beginning. This will give you a lot of practice to polish your form. I agree with the others that you are already really strong, stronger than me for sure, but you may be able to get beginner's gains with a simple program.

 

[JeffC]

I think the Bear protocol would fit here.

-S-

. Such a simple answer, and program. I like it. Take 70-80% of your max, do 100%x5, 90%x5, and 80%x5 OTM until death. Strategically add weight by whatever means you feel works for you. I plan to try The Russian Bear at some point this year.

Simple, not easy.

 

[David S]

@305pelusa - here's the thread for the context:

Tsc template

 

[305pelusa]

@pet' : Noted. If time allows, maybe I could use some conditioning.

@Steve Freides and @Geoff Chafe : Thank you for the suggestion. I am very confident in my technique to pull heavy weights, not sure about a program having me do heavy sets of 5 on the minute to start with 0_o Also muscle is not a goal here. I don't think I'd be able to eat enough to sustain a true Bear protocol.

@Manuel Fortin : I absolutely love that program! Looks like exactly what I'm looking for. Meant to be done twice a week. Now if the end goal is a 420 single, then perhaps my end goal should be 390 for 2 x 2 correct? Working back by 10 lbs (roughly 2.5% jumps) it looks like my first workout would be 5 x 5 reps at 270 lbs. That's 77% of my 1 RM, so it looks like a very reasonable and great starting point frankly.

Light day seems like an excellent day for some Swing too. Umh.

@David S : Thank you for the thread. The program looks very sensible. Will have to decide between this and Pavel's father's cycle.

@D-Rock : Yes perhaps because it would be something new, I might be OK with something more intense. My reasoning is that for a person DLing frequently, those improvements are excellent. But for someone looking for a fast peaking cycle, maybe I can push it harder.

As far as the DL, I mean it certainly has to be the calisthenics training I do, since I don't do anything else Front Levers especially have been good at developing rock-solid abdominal and lat tension. It's just not possible to do it otherwise. I also Pistol with weights, I think maybe that helps a bit too.

 

[Manuel Fortin]

I do not compete, so when I run that type of program, I usually go by feel, meaning that I start at a reasonable weight, and do 5X5 with a 10 pounds increase each week until 5X5 becomes too heavy. Then, I do the 3X3 and 2X2 weeks as per the program. If the cycle is 12 weeks instead of 10, I don't care. Since you never deadlifted before it is almost impossible to know how you will react to the program and scheduling a peek and a weight for a certain week is probably asking too much. Even experienced athletes can miss their peek. The first time I ran that type of program I just started at some weight and saw where it took me. If you have 12 weeks, maybe plan a 9 or 10 weeks cycle based on your current 1RM and extend the cycle with a few additional 5X5 weeks if everything goes well. Your 340 1RM is almost identical to the 345 weight given in the chart in the article. You could just use those numbers, and if in week 6 your 5X5 seems light, add one or 2 weeks of 5X5 and increase the weights of the 3X3 and 2X2 weeks accordingly.

As to the light day being for swings, its one option. But if your deadlift form is not 100%, why not do the light deadlifts? That would add other opportunities to perfect your form. Maybe some swings in addition would be useful either at home on other days or after your deadlift session. For myself, I try to keep the volume of heavy swings low when I do any deadlift plan in which they are not programmed. The deadlift can be very taxing. Since you never did a deadlift cycle, you will probably have to adjust as you go.

 

[Steve Freides]

@Steve Freides and @Geoff Chafe : Thank you for the suggestion. I am very confident in my technique to pull heavy weights, not sure about a program having me do heavy sets of 5 on the minute to start with 0_o Also muscle is not a goal here. I don't think I'd be able to eat enough to sustain a true Bear protocol.

There are middle grounds to be found here - limit the volume, keep the rests long. I'd aim for an average of 200 lifts in 4 weeks, and best to vary it so something like one month of 180 lifts and then one of 220 lifts.

-S-