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Other/Mixed Types of Strength

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)

rvaldrich

Level 5 Valued Member
Straight-arm strength vs bent-arm strength.
Vertical pulling vs horizontal pulling.
Rotational strength vs explosive strength.
One-arm vs bilateral.

I know the answer is ultimately 'it depends', followed by 'what are your goals', but come on. We can paint with some broad strokes occasionally.
I'm not a minimalist but I am a moron so the fewer moving parts, the better. What are the biggest bang-for-your-buck strength types to pursue?
What types of Strength are generally worthwhile to pursue? What's worthless? Is straight-arm vs bent-arm largely just a sport-specific distinction? Is static straight secondary to slow dynamic strength?

If my goal is to be ready for Bruce Wayne to pull up, throw me the keys to the Batmobile, and say 'you're up', what should I put in my training arsenal to cover as many bases as possible?
 

function2surf

First Post
...I don't know if you can say outright that either vertical or horizontal pulling is superior to the other as they're in two completely different planes of motion - albeit the common muscles involved in each movement. I think that's going to be context dependant ie your overall goals....are you a bell ringer (on an overhead rope) or a tug of war enthusiast? :rolleyes:
 

offwidth

Level 9 Valued Member
Straight-arm strength vs bent-arm strength.
Vertical pulling vs horizontal pulling.
Rotational strength vs explosive strength.
One-arm vs bilateral.

I know the answer is ultimately 'it depends', followed by 'what are your goals', but come on. We can paint with some broad strokes occasionally.
I'm not a minimalist but I am a moron so the fewer moving parts, the better. What are the biggest bang-for-your-buck strength types to pursue?
What types of Strength are generally worthwhile to pursue? What's worthless? Is straight-arm vs bent-arm largely just a sport-specific distinction? Is static straight secondary to slow dynamic strength?

If my goal is to be ready for Bruce Wayne to pull up, throw me the keys to the Batmobile, and say 'you're up', what should I put in my training arsenal to cover as many bases as possible?
To paraphrase Dan John… people that want to be prepared for anything, need to be prepared to make a spaceship from dental floss…

I am a big fan of fewer moving parts too… unfortunately I don’t always practice what I preach…

And yeah… it depends…
 

Steve W.

Level 7 Valued Member
Straight-arm strength vs bent-arm strength.
Vertical pulling vs horizontal pulling.
Rotational strength vs explosive strength.
One-arm vs bilateral.

I know the answer is ultimately 'it depends', followed by 'what are your goals', but come on. We can paint with some broad strokes occasionally.
I'm not a minimalist but I am a moron so the fewer moving parts, the better. What are the biggest bang-for-your-buck strength types to pursue?
What types of Strength are generally worthwhile to pursue? What's worthless? Is straight-arm vs bent-arm largely just a sport-specific distinction? Is static straight secondary to slow dynamic strength?

If my goal is to be ready for Bruce Wayne to pull up, throw me the keys to the Batmobile, and say 'you're up', what should I put in my training arsenal to cover as many bases as possible?
You're way overcomplicating things, especially for someone who wants broad strokes and few moving parts.

If your needs are general, your training can be general.

Legend has it that Rabbi Hillel was challenged to explain Torah while the questioner stood on one foot (in other words, sum it up succinctly). Hillel said, "What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. The rest is commentary. Now go and study."

Here's the training equivalent:
Do some strength training (lift weights or do bodyweight strength skills).
Do some things that get your heartrate up.
Do some things to maintain your mobility and flexibility.
The rest is commentary. Now go and train.

This is Dan John's quadrant 3, which Dan John only semi-jokingly defines as: “We don’t do much and we don’t do it very well."
 
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silveraw

Level 7 Valued Member
If my goal is to be ready for Bruce Wayne to pull up, throw me the keys to the Batmobile, and say 'you're up', what should I put in my training arsenal to cover as many bases as possible?
Seems like you have some pretty clear goals. Although I don’t think any ”gym” work is going to be necessary to start out with And will probably slow down your progress.
Start with martial arts training 4x a week. The other days should be Parkour. Those are your AM workouts.

PM is going to be routefinding and scouting the city. Along with driving lessons. The batmobile will kill you faster than anything cooked up by the joker. You gotta be prepared for that.

Once you have progressed with your MA and driving training and built up a decent conditioning base from them, then you probably want to start working on filling out the batsuit. But you aren’t going to go all mass all the time. It is probably going to look like 3-4 weeks of mass building followed by 6 or so weeks of strength training. Then cycle through that again as needed. gym time cannot get in the way of everything else, so adjust accordingly.

At least that would be my approach. Skills first, then supplement it with strength and size.
 

Steve W.

Level 7 Valued Member
Seems like you have some pretty clear goals. Although I don’t think any ”gym” work is going to be necessary to start out with And will probably slow down your progress.
Start with martial arts training 4x a week. The other days should be Parkour. Those are your AM workouts.

PM is going to be routefinding and scouting the city. Along with driving lessons. The batmobile will kill you faster than anything cooked up by the joker. You gotta be prepared for that.

Once you have progressed with your MA and driving training and built up a decent conditioning base from them, then you probably want to start working on filling out the batsuit. But you aren’t going to go all mass all the time. It is probably going to look like 3-4 weeks of mass building followed by 6 or so weeks of strength training. Then cycle through that again as needed. gym time cannot get in the way of everything else, so adjust accordingly.

At least that would be my approach. Skills first, then supplement it with strength and size.
It would probably be a lot simpler to get ready for Tony Stark to turn over his Iron Man suit.
 

LukeV

Level 6 Valued Member
Now I’m saying this as someone who doesn’t do bodyweight exercises or cardio but …

If you do as many push-ups, chin-ups and sit-ups as you can and go for a run, almost every day.
And every now and then lift some heavier stuff.
Then you will be strong, look good and feel great.

Most people should be happy just to be that. The rest of us make it more complicated but we aren’t any happier and we don’t live longer.
 

william bad butt

Level 6 Valued Member
I think strength is a very general adaptation, for most people. Certain movements are more effective at building full body strength. For example, a barbell squat will elicit total body strength improvements versus wrist curls. I classify 2 types of strength: Absolute vs Relative. By the way, this certainly is not my original thought. I just dont know who to credit since I have had many teachers/books/etc...

I'm oversimplifying, but absolute strength improves your ability to interact with external objects. Such as lifting furniture, or pushing a car, or wrestling another person.

Relative strength improves your ability to manipulate yourself in the physical world. Such as running, pullups, climbing, etc... Relative strength is a function of Absolute Strength AND bodyweight.

My recommendation is to spend 1 day per week focusing on increasing your Absolute strength. If you are too small, bulk up. If you are too large, slim down... Unless you practice a sport or activity where you preferentially favor a certain bodyweight. Either way, dedicate a small fraction of your weekly training to maximizing your strength.
 

Antti

Level 9 Valued Member
Like it says on the site, get strong first.

There absolutely are exercises that have better carryover to other things. You likely know them already. Pavel has even written an article about the best of each exercise, so that's something you could check out.

But there really is no need to choose. Just change things up every now and then. I think it's not a bad idea to approach it from a movement perspective or a muscle group perspective. Cover most bases. Switch things up after six weeks or so. Focus on your weak points or what you enjoy the most.

A horizontal pull will improve your vertical pull and vice versa. The better you're at either, the less carryover will there be. You could train the biceps in addition to the pull, but it gets some work with the pull as well. But how bad is it to do a single set of curls to failure in addition? Takes a minute with no fatigue or recovery cost.
 

Mark Limbaga

Level 8 Valued Member
Elite Certified Instructor
Straight-arm strength vs bent-arm strength.
Vertical pulling vs horizontal pulling.
Rotational strength vs explosive strength.
One-arm vs bilateral.

I know the answer is ultimately 'it depends', followed by 'what are your goals', but come on. We can paint with some broad strokes occasionally.
I'm not a minimalist but I am a moron so the fewer moving parts, the better. What are the biggest bang-for-your-buck strength types to pursue?
What types of Strength are generally worthwhile to pursue? What's worthless? Is straight-arm vs bent-arm largely just a sport-specific distinction? Is static straight secondary to slow dynamic strength?

If my goal is to be ready for Bruce Wayne to pull up, throw me the keys to the Batmobile, and say 'you're up', what should I put in my training arsenal to cover as many bases as possible?
I'd definitely say straight arm and strength endurance for most bodyweight drills if that is the goal
 

rvaldrich

Level 5 Valued Member
Maybe I phrased my question wrong, so how about this: are there goals for strength besides weight (2x bodyweight bench press) and difficulty (planche pushup)?

If I don't compete in a sport with specific strength standards (power lifting, Olympic lifting, gymnastics), it seems like 'strength' becomes a wee bit nebulous. So do we (meaning athletics, StrongFirst, whoever) have a definition of strength in these cases? Or do we just substitute one of the above sports' standards as a general default?
 

Don Fairbanks

SFG II
Certified Instructor
Maybe I phrased my question wrong, so how about this: are there goals for strength besides weight (2x bodyweight bench press) and difficulty (planche pushup)?

If I don't compete in a sport with specific strength standards (power lifting, Olympic lifting, gymnastics), it seems like 'strength' becomes a wee bit nebulous. So do we (meaning athletics, StrongFirst, whoever) have a definition of strength in these cases? Or do we just substitute one of the above sports' standards as a general default?
Your question was fine, I was running with the Batman thing.
Whatever strong means to you.
 

offwidth

Level 9 Valued Member
Maybe I phrased my question wrong, so how about this: are there goals for strength besides weight (2x bodyweight bench press) and difficulty (planche pushup)?

If I don't compete in a sport with specific strength standards (power lifting, Olympic lifting, gymnastics), it seems like 'strength' becomes a wee bit nebulous. So do we (meaning athletics, StrongFirst, whoever) have a definition of strength in these cases? Or do we just substitute one of the above sports' standards as a general default?
I don’t think there necessarily are such ‘standards’ in those cases, nor does there need to be. For me it becomes self-defining. You are either strong enough to do what you want to do, or you aren’t. A bit like what @Don Fairbanks just said…
 

william bad butt

Level 6 Valued Member
Maybe I phrased my question wrong, so how about this: are there goals for strength besides weight (2x bodyweight bench press) and difficulty (planche pushup)?

If I don't compete in a sport with specific strength standards (power lifting, Olympic lifting, gymnastics), it seems like 'strength' becomes a wee bit nebulous. So do we (meaning athletics, StrongFirst, whoever) have a definition of strength in these cases? Or do we just substitute one of the above sports' standards as a general default?
I would pick what you are passionate about, and just get better at it, a wee bit at a time.

Although I do like to chase a goal from time to time (I did a powerlifting meet in 2017 and 2019), I think I prefer being process oriented vs goal oriented, in terms of my fitness. I just choose a program (or write a program, whatever) and not worry top much about hitting a certain number. I just trust the process and know that over time I will get stronger.
 

rvaldrich

Level 5 Valued Member
See, that's interesting to me @william bad butt
I've always approached programs with an end-point in mind. You do S&S to get to Sinister; you do NW to get to the OAOLPU and the Pistol. Doing the program to...do the program almost hurts, it seems so alien to me.
I wonder if this suggests a component to, or paradigm of, strength that I'm not seeing.
 
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