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Nutrition Undereating vs Fasting

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Grant Taylor

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Hello all.
My main goal for right now is to loose body fat. I have about 50-60 pounds to loose. Just doing S&S, I’m seeing some progress. My family has started to notice. If I’m going to meet my goal, I have to clean up my diet.

I’m interested in fasting, as it gives you more freedom with what you eat. I often eat with family, so don’t have as much control over the content of my plate. Also, fasting provides benefits for mitochondrial health.

My main question is aimed at the Warrior Diet. Is there any big advantage to undereating, opposed to strict fasting? Is it a compliance benefit, or are there additional physiological benefits? Also, which fasting program would y’all recommend most? Love this forum, and can’t wait to hear back! God bless!
 
Much of what I've been reading lately suggests this:
Calories in and calories out are very dependent. When you go into a calorie deficit, you may lose weight initially, but it eventually slows down your Basel metabolism, and you plateau out.
Insulin is the hormone responsible for storing fat
The idea of fasting is to increase your insulin sensitivity to where you produce less insulin and over a smaller duration of time. This is supposed to lower the set point of how much fat your body will burn an store.
In a nutshell, the latest literature is promoting fasting as a more sustainable way of losing fat and keeping it off.
I'm far from an expert. I'm just trying to learn myself.
 
The problem with undereating would be maintaining higher daily protein intake. Undereating, so called seems to present a difficult problem to solve here. Keep protein high while doing s&s. Preferably beef, since it's high in creatine. On average 1g protein per lbs of body weight. The less carbs and fat, the more you'll lean out. Seems that many people have satiety problems when you have about 1:1 fat to protein which is right around Grass fed Grass finished steaks. And grain finished steak and eggs is a pretty good maintenance diet around 2g fat to 1 gram protein. Ymmv. But I hope that's a useful barometer.
 
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Is there any big advantage to undereating, opposed to strict fasting?
I find it easier to fast than to undereat. If I eat, I eat a lot. In the book, Ori talks about many benefits of undereating fruit during the day: enzymes is the first that comes to mind. However, my appetite triggers the moment I eat something, so undereating fruit hasn't worked for me very well.

The scheme that worked best for me during S&S was 8/16. I ate a lot, felt well and had better body composition.
 
Adachi, thanks for your response. I’m not really talking about underrating as a long term strategy, but underrating in relation to the Warrior diet. In most intermittent fasting protocols, you follow a fast and eat plan. WD is undereating most of the day, then feasting at night.
 
Oh
Adachi, thanks for your response. I’m not really talking about underrating as a long term strategy, but underrating in relation to the Warrior diet. In most intermittent fasting protocols, you follow a fast and eat plan. WD is undereating most of the day, then feasting at night.
Interesting. I assumed warrior diet was basically 24hr daily fasting. One meal per day.
 
Sort of. It’s 20 hours of undereating (snacking periodically on fruit juices and light proteins) followed by a 4 hour feasting window. Some people report feasting on one meal for the 4 hours, but it’s the interpretation of the follower.
 
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In the book, Ori talks about many benefits of undereating fruit during the day: enzymes is the first that comes to mind.
That’s what I was wondering. This approach seems interesting to me. Sometimes I get into situations where I have a “social lunch,” and the WD seems flexible in this way. Also, having the option to snack if I need to seems helpful, and not eating big lunches will likely stop the post lunch slump I can experience.
 
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I’m interested in fasting, as it gives you more freedom with what you eat.

Freedom To Eat

This is one of the definite advantages to Intermittent Fasting.

It allows you to eat thing you would normally eat in a social setting or any other time.

A case in point on this is...

Metabolic Flexibility

This article is from Mike T. Nelson, one of the leading researchers on Intermittent Fasting.

I recently received a very interesting voice mail from Adam, one of my current group of "lab wabbits." He said he'd lost over 20 pounds of body fat between November and July, dropping from 17% to 12% bodyfat while adding over 4 pounds of lean mass.

...Adam was reportedly consuming plenty of "evil" carbs, red meat, and beer as he achieved these results – and that his results were about average in the group of test wabbits.

Metabolic Flexibility is defined as being about to utilized ketones (body fat) or glucose (carbohydrates) dependent on the activity.

Metabolic Flexibility: What the Heck Is It?

Metabolic flexibility is the ability to switch from one fuel source to the next. Due to possible discontinuities in both the supply and demand for energy, humans need a clear capacity to use lipid and carbohydrate fuels and transition between them.(1) This capacity is a healthy state called metabolic flexibility.

Let break this down some more...

Glucose Dependent

Individual on the SAD, Standard (High Carbohydrate) American Diet are "Glucose Dependent". They are adept at utilizing glucose for energy but not ketones.

Fat Dependent

Individual on a Ketogenic Diet appear to be able to utilize ketones (body fat) more so than glucose. There is some research that indicates that individuals on a Ketogenic Diet may be about to access and utilize glucose. However, that is still up in the air

Hybrid Car Effect

One of the benefits of Intermittent Fasting is your metabolic system resembles a Hybrid Car that runs off electricity and gas

Think of electricity as ketones (body fat). Ketones/body fat is utilized for low level activities. The Hybrid Car does the same, using electricity for lower level activities, like in town trips.

Gas is like glucose. When you punch down on the accelerator to speed up to pass another car, the Hybrid Car uses gas to power you around it.

The same applies to exercises or activities that are over 30 seconds. Glucose is the gas is the predominate fuel source.

Intermittent Fasting turn you in to a Hybrid Car; able to access either ketones or glucose dependent you your needs.

Is there any big advantage to undereating, opposed to strict fasting?

Intermittent Fasting

Intermittent Fasting is under eating; being in a Caloric Deficit.

Is it a compliance benefit, or are there additional physiological benefits?

Papa Georgio covered some of this. There are a many good online article on this.

Also, which fasting program would y’all recommend most?

The Best Intermittent Fasting Plan

As you are aware, there are a multitude of plans.

The best plan for you is the one that you like.

The only way to find out which one you like to experiment with them, like Goldilocks did.

"Everything Works But Nothing Works Forever"

Losing weight with a Calorie Deficit only works for so long before you plateau. That because the body adapts to your new lower caloric intake.

The same occurs with an exercise program.

The MATADOR Diet Research Study

One of the keys to maintaining weight loss is to rotate your calorie intake approximately every two weeks.

Drop your calorie intake around 20% for two weeks. Then increased it back to your previous intake, your previous maintenance level, for two weeks.

This calorie rotation is what Bodybuilder have done for decades, via Bulking and Cutting.

With that in mind, as your body weight decreases, you energy demands decrease. Think of it like going from a 8 cylinder car down to a 6 cylinder car then down to a 4 cylinder car.

The 6 cylinder car burn less than the 8 cylinder bar, 4 cylinder car is going to use less gas than the 6 cylinder. In your case, dropping your body weight down, does the same thing, your going to burn fewer calories.

That means you will need to take your new body weight into account and adjust your calories accordingly.
 
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That’s what I was wondering. This approach seems interesting to me. Sometimes I get into situations where I have a “social lunch,” and the WD seems flexible in this way. Also, having the option to snack if I need to seems helpful, and not eating big lunches will likely stop the post lunch slump I can experience.
Perhaps @Steve Freides will 'weigh' in here. He has been on the WD for longer than most around here, and he always has good things to say about it.
All I know is that you can't outrun the laws of thermodynamics...
 
That’s what I was wondering. This approach seems interesting to me. Sometimes I get into situations where I have a “social lunch,” and the WD seems flexible in this way. Also, having the option to snack if I need to seems helpful, and not eating big lunches will likely stop the post lunch slump I can experience.
Yes.

@kennycro@@aol.com has used the phrase “metabolic flexibility.” I think there is also a quantity side of this. One of the benefits I’ve found to the WD approach is that it’s easier to vary the quantity of food you eat, easier to tolerate eating less when that’s your choice.

-S-
 
Freedom To Eat

This is one of the definite advantages to Intermittent Fasting.

It allows you to eat thing you would normally eat in a social setting or any other time.

A case in point on this is...

Metabolic Flexibility

This article is from Mike T. Nelson, one of the leading researchers on Intermittent Fasting.

I recently received a very interesting voice mail from Adam, one of my current group of "lab wabbits." He said he'd lost over 20 pounds of body fat between November and July, dropping from 17% to 12% bodyfat while adding over 4 pounds of lean mass.

...Adam was reportedly consuming plenty of "evil" carbs, red meat, and beer as he achieved these results – and that his results were about average in the group of test wabbits.

Metabolic Flexibility is defined as being about to utilized ketones (body fat) or glucose (carbohydrates) dependent on the activity.

Metabolic Flexibility: What the Heck Is It?

Metabolic flexibility is the ability to switch from one fuel source to the next. Due to possible discontinuities in both the supply and demand for energy, humans need a clear capacity to use lipid and carbohydrate fuels and transition between them.(1) This capacity is a healthy state called metabolic flexibility.

Let break this down some more...

Glucose Dependent

Individual on the SAD, Standard (High Carbohydrate) American Diet are "Glucose Dependent". They are adept at utilizing glucose for energy but not ketones.

Fat Dependent

Individual on a Ketogenic Diet appear to be able to utilize ketones (body fat) more so than glucose. There is some research that indicates that individuals on a Ketogenic Diet may be about to access and utilize glucose. However, that is still up in the air

Hybrid Car Effect

One of the benefits of Intermittent Fasting is your metabolic system resembles a Hybrid Car that runs off electricity and gas

Think of electricity as ketones (body fat). Ketones/body fat is utilized for low level activities. The Hybrid Car does the same, using electricity for lower level activities, like in town trips.

Gas is like glucose. When you punch down on the accelerator to speed up to pass another car, the Hybrid Car uses gas to power you around it.

The same applies to exercises or activities that are over 30 seconds. Glucose is the gas is the predominate fuel source.

Intermittent Fasting turn you in to a Hybrid Car; able to access either ketones or glucose dependent you your needs.



Intermittent Fasting

Intermittent Fasting is under eating; being in a Caloric Deficit.



Papa Georgio covered some of this. There are a many good online article on this.



The Best Intermittent Fasting Plan

As you are aware, there are a multitude of plans.

The best plan for you is the one that you like.

The only way to find out which one you like to experiment with them, like Goldilocks did.

"Everything Works But Nothing Works Forever"

Losing weight with a Calorie Deficit only works for so long before you plateau. That because the body adapts to your new lower caloric intake.

The same occurs with an exercise program.

The MATADOR Diet Research Study

One of the keys to maintaining weight loss is to rotate your calorie intake approximately every two weeks.

Drop your calorie intake around 20% for two weeks. Then increased it back to your previous intake, your previous maintenance level, for two weeks.

This calorie rotation is what Bodybuilder have done for decades, via Bulking and Cutting.

With that in mind, as your body weight decreases, you energy demands decrease. Think of it like going from a 8 cylinder car down to a 6 cylinder car then down to a 4 cylinder car.

The 6 cylinder car burn less than the 8 cylinder bar, 4 cylinder car is going to use less gas than the 6 cylinder. In your case, dropping your body weight down, does the same thing, your going to burn fewer calories.

That means you will need to take your new body weight into account and adjust your calories accordingly.

Wow awesome info can’t wait to dive in thank you!!!!!
 
Hello all.
My main goal for right now is to loose body fat. I have about 50-60 pounds to loose. Just doing S&S, I’m seeing some progress. My family has started to notice. If I’m going to meet my goal, I have to clean up my diet.

I’m interested in fasting, as it gives you more freedom with what you eat. I often eat with family, so don’t have as much control over the content of my plate. Also, fasting provides benefits for mitochondrial health.

My main question is aimed at the Warrior Diet. Is there any big advantage to undereating, opposed to strict fasting? Is it a compliance benefit, or are there additional physiological benefits? Also, which fasting program would y’all recommend most? Love this forum, and can’t wait to hear back! God bless!

Hello!
Warrior diet is good decision. I tried it some years ago and managed to loose easily... circa 1kg/weeks .
 
Let's say you drop 5 lbs of fat. Where does it go? You breathe most of it out. To breathe it out you need to burn it. A nice big window of no calories coming in or maybe a bit of quality fat for satiety purposes allows for some stored fat to be used for fuel, gives the system a rest from digestion, and increases insulin sensitivity and a host of other benefits. And something else I have found interesting. The first comment I usually get from students is " It is nice not to have to think about food, the shopping, the prep. I feel better and have a couple more hrs. of productive time." Works for me, and if nothing changes,nothing changes. Safely give something different a try, see what happens, adjust from there.
 
between November and July
Just pointing out that this wasn't "six weeks to a beach body" and expectations have to be based on long term results.
Intermittent Fasting is under eating; being in a Caloric Deficit.
Without tracking, even IF can easily lead to calorie surplus, especially eating keto. A lot of calories can be packed into a "feast". I've heard though that only so many calories can get absorbed if all eaten in a short time period but I don't think I've ever had that experience.

A tracking app can help a lot regardless of the diet schedule though.
 
Based On What?

What research data states that?

Dr. Ted Naiman mentions this as an aside in this interview. falling below a 1g to 1g protein to energy ratio, that is .

His point is that there is a lower threshold of energy intake where difficulty with satiety come into play. The satiety issue in general , being important for compliance with any diet.

 
Just pointing out that this wasn't "six weeks to a beach body" and expectations have to be based on long term results.

The point is that an intermittent Fasting Plan that decreased caloric intake lead to weight loss.

As you know it also increases insulin sensitivity. That is one of the keys for individuals who are insulin resistant.

Research show that longer periods between meals promotes the fat burning via increases.

The Long Term Effect

As with anything, when you stop doing it, it stop working.

Without tracking, even IF can easily lead to calorie surplus, especially eating keto. A lot of calories can be packed into a "feast". I've heard though that only so many calories can get absorbed if all eaten in a short time period but I don't think I've ever had that experience.

Counting Calories

Yes, this is the foundation of all weight loss or weight gaining program.

It applies to all diets.

Intermittent Fasting

Restriction in the number of meal makes it a little more difficult to over eat.

As you probably know, after fasting for a period of time, most individual are hungry.

Eating Keto

Yes, more calories can be taken in with higher fat with the Keto Diet. However, one of the things fat does is suppress hunger.

It hard to let's say consume 100 gram of fat with 40 gram of protein, 10 - 20 gram of carbohydrates in breakfast at 7 am and be hungry for lu lunch at 12 noon, as I have.

Hunger Drives Over Eating

Both Intermittent Fasting and the Keto Diet suppress hunger which drive hunger, over eating.

A tracking app can help a lot regardless of the diet schedule though.

Tracking Calorie Intake

Agreed. Counting Calories is fundamental to diets and weight loss program.
 
Dr. Ted Naiman mentions this as an aside in this interview. falling below a 1g to 1g protein to energy ratio, that is .

His point is that there is a lower threshold of energy intake where difficulty with satiety come into play. The satiety issue in general , being important for compliance with any diet.

The 1:1 Protein/Fat Ratio

This ratio is one of the quick, easy method for individuals on the Ketogenic Diet to use to make sure they are in the right Protein:Fat Ratios for Ketosis.

Satiety is definite is a major factor in maintaining a weight loss diet.

Protein suppresses appetite a bit more than fat. However, fat comes in a close second.

Protein Intake On Keto

The 1:1 Protein:Fat intake ratio is a good general guideline for those on the Ketogenic Diet.

However, research indicates around 1.8 gram per kilo is effective on the Keto Diet.

Research indicates that the Keto Diet is more effective at utilizing body fat/ketones and preserving protein; specifically greater levels of Leucine are preserved for maintaining and/or increasing muscle mass.

Thomas DeLauer

DeLauer presented information in one of his videos regarding research that demonstrated consuming 2 gram per kilo/1 gram per pound of body weight was effective for increasing muscle mass; as long as fat intake was in around 70% of macro intake. This ensured these individual remained in ketosis.

Mike T. Nelson

Nelson's is one of the leading researcher on Intermittent Fasting.

In working with individual on the Standard American Diet who want to lose weight is, Nelson recommendation is, "Eat more protein".

As you noted, doing so is effective at suppressing hunger.
 
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