Old Forum Upper Body Hypertrophy

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Level 6 Valued Member
@Inunnguaq – I know that video, but it doesn’t help. The way Cotter teaches it is dropping the KB down. Doing it that way feels very weird and i can’t really get a swing going.

@David – I have that article in my personal KB file :D along with things like Pavel’s Total Tension Complex and Dan John’s Armor Building Complex. The problem with those, as you stated yourself, is the requirements for them. Like i said i have still problems with the one handed clean. There’s no way i start doing double KB complexes or routines. And btw, did my second S&S session today and really like how it feels. Looking forward to stay on that path.

@jon_ace Thx :D

Marlon Leon

Level 3 Valued Member
Just do some pull ups and you will be fine. Ladders, GTG or EDT - all works. Yes you won't be doing 8 to 12 reps but the upper body will grow nonetheless.

Important is to use perfect technique. There is no muscle growth when kipping.

And otherwise just let somebody teach you the clean (as you said yourself).




Level 3 Valued Member
OP, while he's fallen out of favor over the last few years, Charles Poliquin had some articles that stressed strengthening the external rotators to improve your pressing. Based on some of your other abilities, you may want to explore adding some Cuban rotations or external rotations with your elbow on your knee.

Also, personally I never did the PM before starting the ROP (this was before S&S). I worked on swings a bit and got used to pressing and didn't worry about my snatches. I guess in the end, I wasn't doing the ROP and just jumped into doing C&P ladders. The ROP is intended to get you to a 1/2 Bw press and 20 snatches in 10 minutes. Neither that I've done, but I still grew and amazingly, I don't have any regrets about not reaching those goals. ;)

Bill Been

Level 6 Valued Member
We've heard quite a few reasons why you can't do this or that. You can obviously do whatever the heck you want. And I can obviously feel free to tell you you're wasting your time trying to get big before you get strong.  What you actually need is to quit paying attention to what all the other weaklings in European gyms can't do and get yourself strong. Why would you want to try to look strong rather than be strong? This is a wonderful time in your life (I'm making an assumption that you're relatively young) during which your body can do some amazing things. You can stress it, see it recover and adapt, and be ready to be stressed again in 48-72 hours - over and over again. You can take advantage of that fact with a serious progressive strength program over a few months and be the beneficiary of increased strength literally for the rest of your life. As a delightful side benefit, if you eat enough to support your training, guess what else happens? You get BIG. In this paradigm, getting big is a side effect of getting strong. Guess what a guy who presses double 32s is compared to a guy who presses double 16s....BIGGER!

Train for strength and let "big" happen as a consequence. You're not strong enough to have any other priorities. Sorry to be blunt.


Level 2 Valued Member
I was a bit in the same boat as you are, and asked a related question

Actually what Pavel told me is to stick it out with S&S, and once you start using the 32 regularly magic will happen... well guess what, it does!

Forearms, shoulders, triceps, back (to some extent), butt, hamstrings and quads got somewhat bigger (not that much, but rock hard and defined, which to me beats size every day). Even biceps got more defined and looks a bit bigger although that probably is an optical illusion.

I know this is not what you wanted to hear... It wasn't what I wanted to hear either but I figured if Pavel takes time to reply himself I may as well listen! And boy that was a good idea!

I do however like your idea of doing presses for some steps of the TGU, but make sure that does not limit your bell size for the TGU (i.e. if you can't press the 24 or a 28 but can do TGUs with it that will limit your progression on the TGU). Maybe you can rotate them between PressTGU and heavy TGU

A purely hypertrophy focused program will add a lot more size than S&S, but then I do really prefer the very athletic look S&S is giving me. Don't forget to eat btw!

btw, I really get your comment about US guys having different ideas about size and strength than us regular soccer guys... Fully agree!!


Level 3 Valued Member


Like babies needs to crawl before they learn how to walk, so must you learn to do a proper clean, before you learn how do continuous cleans.
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