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Kettlebell Using a heart-rate monitor ... for the data-averse

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Rob Lawrence

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I recently got myself an HRM to track my calorie burn during workouts. I used to be very data-averse in my workouts and didn't like to track stuff like this. But I have found that tracking HR can actually be quite freeing and help me improvise more within the workout.

Among other things, I've rediscovered what a sick amount of calories KB snatches burn, even if you've been doing them for ages and have grooved technique. The only thing that comes close for me is running intervals, and I find that far more unpleasant as well as more likely to cause injury.

If you're personally data-averse (it's common enough), I recommend biting the bullet and trying out using an HRM for a while ... you may find you like it a lot more than you anticipated. For me, it helps direct and simplify my activity which has always been and remains my preference.
 
Can something like counting your pulse immediately after a session for fifteen seconds and multiplying that number by 4x also work in a pinch?
 
I've recently got myself a hr monitor. As I've got into using the breath control in S&S I wanted to see if my own interpretation of being ready corresponds to heart rate whilst reading more about the maffetone method for running aerobically. There is a difference, and not exactly comparable, to heart rate training anaerobically to that of steady aerobic training from what I understand. However, it is interesting as my hr doesn't skyrocket in S&S and I largely stay at or just over my aerobic zone of maffetone's 180 formula. I go again when it returns to the lower range, for me it is 114 - 124, so below 110 or so. I don't stare at the clock though, use it as a guide with breath leading the way. And old tech works too!! Pulse for 15 secs times 4 gives a good guide but a monitor is so much better and easier. And with running, to keep it low is difficult and very revealing how quickly you can go into glycolysis rather than aerobic. Far too early - and I'm not really running much anyway - to notice any run time improvements. I only use the monitor for heart rate - it does have a calorie thing on it but don't use it - and as a data averse, old tech, old dinosaur I have to admit I quite like it. NOt sure if using it as helped but it certainly has reassured me that I'm on the right track.
 
Alistair, what bell are you using? I have noticed similar effects, I am 42 - swinging 32kg bell - I routinely get up to about HR 140-145 in my sets of 10 and then let it drop back to <110 before the next step. I try to keep my breathing through my nose between sets and under good control.

However if I try and compress down to 5 minutes (managed it for the first time this week) for 10 sets of 10 then I can hit 178 (and I gasp like a dying fish at the end).

Interestingly if I look at the profile after a typical session (can't figure out how to post a picture here) then the bumps from the swings and from the get-ups are pretty similar (I do manage to stay just below 140 during get-ups though.

I only manage a 6-8 km run 1-2x a week (keeping below 180 - age) and to be honest I am not seeing much improvement in MAF test at all. I do think the weight work interferes with building an aerobic base. However, I am definitely still getting stronger.

However, to be able to do this volume of work and feel fresh and (touch wood) injury free has convinced me that you can combine S+S with Maffetone style aerobic work.
 
Karl, on 32 aswell. I've been off running for a while but when I transitioned my form to barefoot I did a lot of slow, slow runs that, although not monitored, were maffetone like, in that I'm sure I stayed well within the aerobic zone going on feel. My sets come in about 8/8.30. Before the hr monitor they were 7/7.30, so I've backed off a little, which is fine. My plan is just to keep going until I get to 5 breaths between each set and see what the time is before pushing it. Now and then, nothing set in stone, I'll pop out for a maffetone run and increase the time in zone. ONly done one maf test and 1 25 min run. Had to walk the hills!! Surprising how quickly hr climbs. I'll test maybe after a month or so, depending on how it goes. It isn't a goal as such, more about experimentation and a run in the woods using nasal breathing.

I'm 51 and use 124 as my top limit with the maffetone formula. It could be 129 but I've knocked off 5 as I take hay fever meds at the moment, to be cautious. I'm not overly concerned if I spike at 130 in the swings, as it doesn't stay there for long and maybe 129 is a truer representation due to previous running. Get ups get me to 110/100 but feel they are more fatiguing than the swings. Therein is the difference, I think, between strength work and pure aerobic training. Even though the hr maybe low, the cns is getting whacked and the hr doesn't really reflect the work being done. At least, that is what I think is going on!!
 
Hallo All,

the heart rate monitor is a great tool to... monitor your heart rate in real time, conviniently.

I have an old polar (maybe 10years or older) and used it a lot back than to monitor bike riding.

Almost a year before I rediscovered this device and made extensive use of it to monitor S&S sessions. I wrote about it in older posts. (I literally soak the belt in water and put the transmitter a bit out of the center line of the body. That makes the polar work exactly 97% of the time).

The monitor helps to stay alactic and recover airobically really well. You can be in your personal zone enjoy the training and devellop yourself gradually.

The last three weeks I had holiday off from work, delved a little bit in re- reading Al Ciampas and Pavels posts, orderred a book by Maffetone, to decide to work on my aerobic base.

I ordered a weight-vest and started rucking into the westwood accompanied by the polar. To strengthen foot, calves and heart I do a bit of ropeskipping. I try this according to Maffetons recommendations (180bpm - 38). I track my training at haraldmotz@blogspot.de.

To give an example what i monitorred today:

- workout 50min, a mix of ropeskipping & swings (40kg - 2arm: 10r x 4s - 1arm: 10r x
8s) & rest
- 819kcal/50%fat
- 154max/132avg
- while skipping i came to my aimed max hr of 142 in about 10min
- the 10 swings, especially the later sets spiked my heart up to 30bpm
- the bpm is rising up 10 to 15 sec. after the swings
- to calm down to 115-130bpm I concentrated on slow exhalation
to begin another set of skipping or swings

Without the monitor I surely would go to hard. With it I know I do something right, and build me up aerobically even when I rest. I like to train frequently so I have to recover from my training and avoid to overtax myself.

Have a nice summer day all of you.
 
Rob... absolutely recommend using a HR monitor, and learning how your body feels at different HRs. Why track calorie burn though?

Lonerider... no where near as accurate.

Karl... how do you expect your MAF test to improve if you're consistently "busting" your aerobic max with swings? Even 1-2 BPM has a huge affect on blood La and H+.

Allistair... sounds like you are saying that you test your run, but use swings as your primary aerobic tool, yes? If so, please report your results to me, good or bad. Thanks.
 
AL - S&S is my mainstay and running once a week max using a low hr and maffetone. With the runs, I'll just add time to it but I don't have any set goal or distance, just to see where it takes me, an hour will be my max. This is new to my set up. I used to run a lot more regularly but haven't at all in the last year, apart from sprints. I've left the sprints for the time being because I thought it may counter-productive, at the moment, that is. My goal is the simple goal, currently 4/5 times a week. So the bulk of my training is alactic/aerobic swings, staying below, or at just above very briefly and only for a few of the sets, the top limit of Maffetone's 180 formula for me. I'll let you know, maybe a while.....don't hold your breath!! Pun very much intended!
 
Hmmm, for some reason, I am no longer receiving an email when a thread I marked is updated. Craig... advice?

Allistair... so your "test" is any improvement in S&S; i.e., more swings in less time @/under your aerobic HR?
 
Yes, pretty much...going to keep on keeping on with S&S. Not going to test at all until I get to 5 breaths between each set keeping below my aerobic hr, as you say. See what the time is, then work on shorter breath/rests as appropriate. Meanwhile, easy runs, as and when the notion takes me, add time in aerobic zone and test out with a maf test. I have a baseline and route which will be the same each time. I'm not having a set day to run as it will depend on how I feel and in Scotland, the weather! So, a bit of both really....the maf run test will measure any aerobic efficiency adaptation in run times and S&S is an ongoing improvement, well hopefully,of alactic and aerobic efficiencies. I know from other threads, yours included and from what Pavel has said, that S&S and running is a good combo. I combined ETK a few years ago and running in a weekly schedule which worked really well but I wasn't using a 32!

Back to the data-averse issue. Really, I couldn't be bothered or see the need or place for someone who trains regularly to be consumed by too much tech, numbers and stuff. Simple, minimal and effective...stripped of guff, that's the deal, isn't it? As far as heart rate monitors go I'm a total convert now. Rather than having someone shout at you to go harder or have your inner self pushing you on, this little device is your guardian. Informs you when to slow down! It looks after you, telling you to take care. Wonderful. Every home should have one.
 
Al, I take your point. I just wanted to see the outcome of the experiment. S+S as I do it (and i try and follow the book) just breeches my aerobic threshold (5 bpm or so) consistently. Alongside that I have not improved my MAF test) as measured by running. Interestingly my top speed and endurance over 2-3 miles has improved in this time.

However I can't see anyway to do swings and avoid breaking aerobic threshold whilst progressing in bell size, I think the only way I could remain fully aerobic is by dropping a bell size. I feel at this point in my life I am getting more benefit from getting stronger using the bigger bell. In honesty, it would hurt my ego to drop back down as well.

I'd be interested in your advice - would you consider maintaining HR below aerobic threshold to be ideal (or even realistic) in kettlebell / strength training?
 
I find heart rate monitor training quite interesting. I need to get one that has the chest belt (although I dislike the feeling of the belt) and constant feedback on the monitored heart rate. The one I have is a watch that displays the heart rate only after you press your fingertip to the screen for a few seconds. It is adequate for my needs, but a more tech-savvy monitor is calling my name.
 
I have a belt one that produces graphs (when it plugs into the computer and phones home). I think you miss out if you just take readings. I learned for example that my heart rate remains very high for quite awhile after lifting (compared to recovering very quickly from rucking).

You get used to the belt quickly.
 
Karl,

What is the experiment?

How much rest between sets of swings are you getting (in min/sec), and which bell are you using? How long have you been doing this? What else are you doing?

As I said, even a few BPM difference on the monitor can mean a huge physiological difference. One of my most difficult tasks has been to convince people that "1" is not a small number... do not minimize 1, or 2, or 3, etc. A HR ceiling, is a hard ceiling, when prescribed (for aerobic training).

How many times have you run the MAF test? How long apart? How long have you been doing S&S in this way, w/r to your MAF test dates? Do you warm up properly for the MAF test (very important)? Are you an experienced runner? Any other issues that can affect HR... illness, injury, overtraining, medication, etc?

However I can’t see anyway to do swings and avoid breaking aerobic threshold whilst progressing in bell size, I think the only way I could remain fully aerobic is by dropping a bell size. I feel at this point in my life I am getting more benefit from getting stronger using the bigger bell. In honesty, it would hurt my ego to drop back down as well.

There is no difference between adapting strength or adapting the aerobic system. Practice each session, be patient, and let time do it's thing. Because you can't see it, doesn't mean it isn't possible. Question: how do you rate "getting stronger" as more beneficial than aerobic conditioning? Are you coming back from an injury?

And, why can't you do both? Rest a little longer, and your HR will stay under your cap; + you will still be enjoying the strength benefits.
 
I bought a HRM chest strap a few months ago and have really enjoyed experimenting with it. I've done a few different Prowler protocols with it; some relatively light (90lbs) for 20 seconds with long recovery times (1+40) which are designed to facilitate recovery from heavy weight training on your off days; and some with 230lbs loaded doing 50' pushes "as many" in 15 minutes; and some with the same but using a reduction in HR to <80% as the cue to go again. I've done only a little work on the Concept2 rower wearing it, and the same 20/100 protocol feels completely different - the work is easier, but the recovery is harder because of the active rest. Of particular interest to me are my Starting Strength barbell sessions. When you examine the trace afterward, it looks exactly like a really long bout of interval training with slightly lower peaks (HR 83%) and the valleys are lower due to the long intraset rest periods.

I'm purely looking for alactic glycolytic improvements. I want to be able to produce high levels of force, not puke, and recover quickly. It's pretty easy to dial into whatever energy pathway you'd like to train using this tech. A simple Polar chest strap, a free Polar app (which is probably pretty basic compared to some out there) and it all works together quite seamlessly. Very good addition to my inventory and a great way to indulge my Inner Data Nerd.
 
Al - I appreciate you taking the time to share your knowledge. Apologies for the long post. Answers below

What is the experiment? - I was interested in seeing how well purely aerobic Maffetone type running (or rowing) combined with S+S. Background is I'm a big guy (42 yo 102 kg @ 1m 85 and too much of that is body fat) I wanted to combine gentle cardio with strength work to help set up a calorie deficit without trashing my body.

How much rest between sets of swings are you getting (in min/sec)? - typically rest about 1 min between sets (until HR drops back to 110 bpm).

and which bell are you using? - 32 kg

How long have you been doing this? - Kettlebells about a year, S+S about 10 months, 32 kg bell for the last 6 weeks or so.

What else are you doing? No other strength work, just S+S and warm-up 4-6 times a week. On one of those days I mix in some snatch practices (3 sets of 2 each arm of 16, 20 and 24 kg) into the warm-up on another day I do some tension work - hard-style plank, other abs, and light bottom-up presses (3 sets of 1 per arm 12-16 kg). In addition to this I'll try and get out for a run twice a week - about 6-9 km, but slow - keeping HR <138. Alternatively I'll get on a concept2 rowing machine and row 10 km staying aerobic as well.

How many times have you run the MAF test? - About 4 times since April
How long apart? about a month

Do you warm up properly for the MAF test (very important)? - In truth, not brilliantly 5 minutes on a bike to get heart rate up gradually.

Are you an experienced runner? - Not to any level, have run off and on for years - never seriously.

Any other issues that can affect HR… illness, injury, overtraining, medication, etc? - Don't think so, I feel very fresh with my current exercise regime (why I like S+S so much) - I guess the weather has been getting progressively warmer (SE England) since April and that may impact.

Question: how do you rate “getting stronger” as more beneficial than aerobic conditioning? - I can run for 90 minutes and feel fine, I can only press 20 kg and get-up 32 kg, I think that getting stronger combined with diet will have the greatest effect on body composition (could be wrong about that though).

And, why can’t you do both? Rest a little longer, and your HR will stay under your cap; - Tried this last night, stretched rests between sets out to 90 seconds - 2 1/2 minutes (HR dropped back to around 90-95), managed to stay purely aerobic for 7/10 sets so I think with longer rests between later sets this should be doable. Interestingly went through my TGUs as normal and looking back over the data afterwards these were enough to get me spiking above 138 bpm - I will try longer rests between these as well.
 
Karl,

The largest element to body fat loss is nutrition and energy intake, no matter anyone tries to sell you. Tie down your food intake, first.

You can make progress both on the aerobic front and the strength front if you do not destroy your work in one with the other. Keep your HR under 138 in both your runs and your swings. Do Pavel's suggestion of a 2-h swing bimonthly test with the next lower bell. Make sure that you are properly warmed up before your MAF test: 15min of activity with YOUR heart rate @ 118. The increased heat and sunlight of the summer will affect your MAF test. Clean up your running technique, if need be... midfoot strike, good posture, etc; as this will skew your results as well.

Stay with the 32 for your swings and rest as much as you need to keep your HR under 138. This will improve over time, and you will rest less and less. Get ups will always spike your HR... rest 5-10min after swings, and pay no attention to your HR.

Swings and get ups with the 32 is not weak, regardless of how big your eyes might get at the sight of the buffet of KB sizes. Stay in your lane and continue your practice.
 
Karl, I think I have a similar problem. A single set of swings, even with a light weight, takes my heart rate to 150's. Unless I don't do them hardstyle. Next sets will touch a HR of 160's, even if I let my HR drift to 100 between sets. I'm 41 and and by Maffetone's calculations should keep HR less than 139.

Tried maffetone method for running for a few months last year, as well. Could run a mile in around 6:30 at the time, but I couldn't even shuffle for 2 minutes before HR was greater than my aerobic max. Did so for a number of months with mild improvement; got so that I could shuffle my way to a 12 minute mile under the specified HR. But improvement was excruciatingly slow, never really used a full stride pattern, and after a few months I loosened the reigns and would train to a HR of 156 (on a hard hilly run I saw my HR go up to 195, so I used that as a "max"), and seemed to make better progress (around an 8.5 to 9 minute mile under the heart rate).

I am considering the Mihaly Igloi/Bub Schul (5k olympic champ in the 60's) method. Seems similar to S + S version of endurance building. Short and easy intervals with short rests (for example, 10 x 100 "fresh" stride with 50m walk; 6 x 150 "fresh" stride with 50m walk). Keep the heart rate less than 80% max, with the intermittent walk to loosen the muscles, decrease the HR, and prevent lactic acid accumulation. I like the idea of building up endurance using a full but easy stride pattern, rather than shuffling my aerobic base in the right direction. Would be curious if anyone here has trialed such a method.
 
Al,

I appreciate the advice. I'll stick with the longer rests and report back on any MAF test improvements.

I have transitioned to midfoot strike on running now. Nice flat shoes, insoles removed - feels great.

Diet is improving but always a work in progress....can keep it under control if I really obsess on it - relax and it all goes wrong.

Finally, in my opinion, this has to be the best forum on the 'net, so much knowledge, so little attitude.
 
Bryant, my HR also goes to 150s or 160s too if I stay with 10 swings. The "rest as much as I need to" isn't enough - for aerobic training sessions, I have to cut back to 8 or even 6 swings per set to keep HR in range; all max power hardstyle swings (24kg). Here is a session from today; 10 swings per set for first 4 sets, then 8 swings per set for 6 sets, then 6 swings per set for remainder of 40 min session. https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/834520613

I've been doing this for many weeks now... have learned a lot about how HR reacts. I'm 47 and trying to keep HR below 145. Still learning more each session. I think it's doing me a lot of good, though - I love the protocol!
 
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