all posts post new thread

Other/Mixed USMC Combat Fitness Test Prep

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)

JRiggs

Level 4 Valued Member
Hello everyone,

I am an active duty Marine hoping to find some advice for prepping for my Combat Fitness Test this year and specifically the ammo can press event. Here is a link for a demo of the exercise:



To get max points this year (the standards just got harder) I have to do 120 of these with a 30lbs ammo can in 2 minutes.

My question is how would you recommend training for this? Should I GTG with this specific press and weight, do ROP, work volume on heavier kb clean and press, etc?

Background/context: I am 32, 160lbs (9%ish bf). I just finished 16 weeks of Simple and Sinister and was working with the 32kg but havent reached the standard yet. I have about 16 weeks before the test. In previous years (on old standards) I did 100 in 2 minutes but was pretty gassed by the end of it and would like for it to be easier. I will also be training loaded carries and sprints/swings for the other events.

Thanks in advance for any advice!
 
@JRiggs, welcome! I am excited to hear how this goes and I think you will get some good advice on how to train for it.

Good job on S&S with the 32kg!

Question - is there a standard of whether the legs can move during the Ammo can press or not?
 
@JRiggs, welcome! I am excited to hear how this goes and I think you will get some good advice on how to train for it.

Good job on S&S with the 32kg!

Question - is there a standard of whether the legs can move during the Ammo can press or not?

Thanks for the reply and encouragement! Yes, a push press movement can be used. Also, a split stance can be used as well. In the past I've trained with the strict press and tested with the push press technique. Not sure if this is the best approach though.
 
I'll take a stab at it, though I think you'll probably get some better input from others. I'm close to a novice at programming, so keep that in mind... just giving you some ideas.

You said you have 16 weeks, and that you are also training for other events, so, in addition to your other training:
  • Week 1-4: Military press (MP) (no leg movement) barbell or pair of kettlebells, challenging weight (maybe 70% of your 1RM press weight) for 5 x 5 - building strength in pressing muscles.
  • Week 5-8: MP, challenging weight for 3 x 5, push press lighter weight for 3 x 10 (three sets of 10) - still building strength in pressing muscles but also working on endurance and explosiveness.
  • Week 9-13: MP, challenging weight for 3 x 5 (heavier than previous weeks if it feels right), jerks for 3-5 sets of 10 - working on strength, endurance, explosiveness, and stabilizing weight overhead.
  • Week 14-15: Push press for 3-5 (at least 3, up to 5) 1-min all-out AMRAP sets, 3 min rest between, steady/fast cadence. Do this three times per week, one day with event weight (30 lb ammo can if you have it, otherwise bumper plate or something else you can hold with 2 hands), one day with slightly lighter, and one day with slightly heavier weight. - a bit of glycolytic peaking, and practice for event conditions.
  • Week 16 Easy week leading up to event day. Practice but keep load and volume light to moderate. Taper week.
Since you mentioned doing some loaded carries, I'd add in some waiter's walks too. Kettlebells overhead, walk, 1-2 minutes. Then drop to the rack and walk for another 1-2 minutes.

Thoughts from you or others?
 
If it were me I'd load up an ammo can or similar with 32-35 lbs and twice a week I'd run the drill.

I'd experiment with breathing, shifting from a square stance to a slight split and back, experiment with alternating push and straight press in groups of ten or so. The straight press will be quickest, so to hit the 1 rep/second you won't be able to do only push, but these can be used to do recovery periods. Maybe shoot for 15 rep in 10 second on the straight press and then 10 reps in 15 seconds on the push. You may find a technique of a shallow push that will hit the one/second requirement, but my gut feeling is that changing technique on a schedule will keep you more fresh.

Maybe start out doing only one minute drills or giving yourself 2.5 minutes to complete and tighten it up as you go.

It sounds to me like you have the strength and endurance to pass this thing already as long as you have good pacing and play with ways to spread the pain around.
 
My 2-cents worth:

Get an FMS, make sure your shoulders are up to the task of a lot of overhead pressing.

Test yourself to get a max rep count in 2:00 according to the competition rules.

Start training the thing itself in the 50-80% max reps range, e.g., if you can get 60 reps now, try doing sets of 30 for a while. Seek to build up your weekly volume because that's a significant determinant of success in an event like this.

Have a weekly near-max day, where you do a few reps to warm up, then go for what we call a "training max" - push yourself but only so far, never to the point of failure, just to the point where you feel you've done all the good reps you can do. Every few weeks, cycle back the weekly max day and build up again.

-S-
 
@JRiggs
I have a few thoughts that overlap with the previous posters. Keep in mind I don't have any experience with this event, so I'm largely speculating:

--How is your shoulder mobility (as @Steve Freides alluded to)? This is important for shoulder health if you are doing a high volume of overhead pressing. But it is also important for performance. If your overhead mobility is restricted so you have to use muscle power to fight that restriction into the lockout position, you will fatigue a lot faster than if you can achieve the lockout position more freely. An ounce of mobility can be worth of pound of strength and/or endurance in an event like this.

--Get your technique dialed in. As @North Coast Miller mentioned, a traditional push press will be too slow, but you should be able to take advantage of the ability to use your legs. I'm inclined to think that a consistent technique using a subtle quick and shallow dip, coordinated with your arm action, would work the best, but I'm guessing here.

It also appears you can take advantage of a little layback like in the clean and press event that used to be part of olympic weightlifting. A little layback will give you better leverage and a shorter range of motion, although I am guessing that a layback that is too dramatic might be frowned upon even if it not actually against the rules. Good t-spine mobility will facilitate some layback without putting as much stress on your lumbar spine or being as dramatically obvious.

Are there guys who already seem to have a successful dialed in technique (other than just beastly straight pressing), that you can emulate?

--I like @Anna C 's idea of working on your MP strength. I would use strict barbell MP and do an Easy Strength or PTTP type program. Low volume, such as 2 x 5, 3 x 3, or 532, 5x/week, lots of rest between sets, done before any endurance pressing practice.

--I like @Steve Freides's idea of doing a lot of specific event practice. In addition to the actual event weight, I would mix in practice with a weight that is heavier than the event weight, but close enough that you can get reasonably near the same volume and don't have to change your technique; it's overloaded endurance practice, not maximum strength practice. You can also mix in faster cadence and/or longer duration sets with a slightly lighter than event weight.

Apparently standards have gotten A LOT higher. I checked some videos on YouTube, which mentioned 91 reps in 2 minutes as a maximum score. 120 is basically a 1/3 increase.
 
A point to the others: the military does not wait for shoulder health, or any other mobility issues, to improve before testing. It is what it is. So, we have to work within the agencies timeframe, not our bodies. Frustrating, I know...

@JRiggs, take 2-3 days per week outside of your normal PT and "practice" various sets of 20, 30, and 40lb events. It's only 30lbs, and you've done this before. Just practicing how little knee-bend and "jump" you need to launch the can up will help immensely. Perhaps using two KBs totaling the weights will help too.

As the others have said, work on our shoulder health as well.

This guy can probably help too: @Miguel.
 
@JRiggs ,

Welcome to StrongFirst.

Good day, sir. I'm also a Marine.

+1 to everything said above, all great recommendations and input. I have some experience related insights that I will explain to bring this into context a little better:

The ACL (ammo can lift) is done after an MTC (movement to contact) 880 yard sprint, which for his age, @JRiggs needs to run in 2:42 for max points. Upon completion of this event, he will have no less than 5 minutes to recover from the effort before he attempts his ACL. However, that sprint is an "all out" effort, and likely a huge contributor to feeling gassed during ACL. So in this respect, a better aerobic base will help you run the MTC and recover in between events. For that I suggest some LSD runs.

For the ACL itself, I have found that numerous things contribute to good or poor scores:

Grip - If you have small hands just holding on to the ammo can is enough to confound your best efforts at pressing it in a speedy fashion. Grip tape helps immensely, but only solves half the problem. I've found that holding the can slightly canted helps reduce hand fatigue, but there is really no way around this if your hands are not large. So I would suggest figuring out exactly how you can place your hands while experiencing the minimum amount of fatigue in your hands and fingers. This is going to require some trial and error.

Shifting weight(s) - Not much you can do, sir, other than asking your S-3 to find some medium that will not shift every time you press the ammo can

Technique - I have found that a small amount of "layback" or lean combined with looking up both help in keeping the ammo can moving straight up and down (For those not in the Corps, you are allowed to press the can out at a slight angle or straight up and down). I recommend an even stance and the use of a short, explosive dip and drive coupled with pressing the can. This works extremely well in reducing local fatigue in the arms and shoulders, but it requires some small amount of coordination and a little practice to dial in.

Breathing - Through your nose, and this requires practice, but finding the correct amount of presses per breath (in and/or out) will help prevent "panting dog" breathing

Shoulder mobility - There SHOULD be an FMS qualified Semper Fit Person at the closest on base gym. If not, if there are any ATCs close by (SOI, MCRD, any basic schools) they can screen you as well.

General strength vs. specific strength - Clean & Jerks are great for "dialing in" your dip and drive technique and while unilateral, greatly mimic the same movement pattern. Doubly so for pressing ROP fashion.

However, my greatest CFT results were after nothing more complicated than A+A heavy snatches and LSD running/rucking. @aciampa is the man behind my "programming" and certainly my methodology and ideology. 16 weeks may or may not be enough time to learn and master the snatch, which I have been promoting as the only thing you or I (or anyone else in search of overall strength, endurance, and resiliency) need as Marines in terms of resistance training. But perhaps in this case, learning the C&J might be more beneficial as it more closely resembles the movement you are seeking to improve.

@aciampa , thoughts on this good sir?

@JRiggs , feel free to ask me whatever you like IRT PT, health, wellness, stress management and relief, and total fitness. Not only is it my field of study, but I have learned a vast amount of applicable knowledge from Mr. Ciampa, especially insofar as how we as Marines can use his teachings to our greater benefit.

Good luck with your CFT, sir.
 
@aciampa , thoughts on this good sir?

The long term approach is as you have reported: aerobic and KB ballistics base building. For the short term, the clean and push press is more suitable for the ACL event, and you can probably drop the clean as you move closer.
 
Thanks very much to everyone for the replies/advice!

-FMS shoulder health is solid 3s, though I feel like I'm always chasing better t-spine mobility!

-I've been practicing snatches here and there while I was doing S&S. The "A+A" is new to me and will be checking out other threads to understand this.

-Miguel, IRT your "greatest CFT results", I can relate. A few years ago I started training KBs and all but stopped "sport specific training" and have watched all my PFT and CFT numbers climb continually (even with the raised standards!) The LSD running/rucking is something I have neglected but am really starting to understand the value and impact of. Do you think rucking would be enough to boost performance in the 880? I generally avoid running where I can due to ankle joint issues.

-Mr. Ciampa, as a side note, I really appreciated your articles on deployment prep and rucking. Thank you.

I will continue to digest all this. I'll post my plan and results. Thank you all again.

-Jarrid
 
@Miguel, 2:42 for two laps of the track? That's a 5:24/mile pace, which is pretty fast by most standards. I think I'd be running some 220's at faster than your goal pace and some 440's at your goal pace as preparation, and some 880's and longer at a still-brisk pace, perhaps 10% slower than your goal pace.

@Miguel, 880 isn't a sprint, it's a torture session. :)

-S-
 
@Miguel, 2:42 for two laps of the track? That's a 5:24/mile pace, which is pretty fast by most standards. I think I'd be running some 220's at faster than your goal pace and some 440's at your goal pace as preparation, and some 880's and longer at a still-brisk pace, perhaps 10% slower than your goal pace.

@Miguel, 880 isn't a sprint, it's a torture session. :)

-S-

P.S. Just to add to the torture, this is done with combat boots! Haha
 
-Miguel, IRT your "greatest CFT results", I can relate. A few years ago I started training KBs and all but stopped "sport specific training" and have watched all my PFT and CFT numbers climb continually (even with the raised standards!) The LSD running/rucking is something I have neglected but am really starting to understand the value and impact of. Do you think rucking would be enough to boost performance in the 880? I generally avoid running where I can due to ankle joint issues.

Sir, I think rucking will help build your aerobic base, which is huge for a multi-event CFT (and a ton of other things), but I suggest spending some time running and working on gait. Maybe getting your form professionally assessed. "Never add speed to dysfunction" (Cook, Gray, Movement). So if you can't run well, sprinting has the potential to create a whole host of problems.

@Miguel, 2:42 for two laps of the track? That's a 5:24/mile pace, which is pretty fast by most standards. I think I'd be running some 220's at faster than your goal pace and some 440's at your goal pace as preparation, and some 880's and longer at a still-brisk pace, perhaps 10% slower than your goal pace.

Sir, I don't sprint unless forced to. An old Recon-o-saur once said (insert grizzled Clint Eastwood type voice... "Look man, I don't run, I bound from cover to cover..." (Military reference for movement in combat) Things have been going pretty good for all USMC physical tests without having to add sprinting into my training. Methinks I might keep it like that.

@Miguel, 880 isn't a sprint, it's a torture session. :)

And AFTER that we do more events. =]

This is a perfect score; and not too out of the ordinary for young grunts. It's not worth mentioning what the mile pace is when you're running 800m and less.

What is worth mentioning is that plenty of folks either gas themselves on the sprint and suck wind for the rest of the events, or hold back on the sprint just to survive the events. Faults in our training methodology and ideology, trust me I'm working on it. =]
 
Having a deep aerobic base is foundational to this type of 'activity'.

I've been in the military, run OCR's, and have spent decades moving over difficult terrain in the mountains.

I can't over-stress how important this foundation is. And it doesn't get built overnight. This is a long term enterprise.

And I agree wholeheartedly with @Miguel that rucking is an excellent tool to use for this purpose.
 
I would look at the NASA push-up program Pavel included in Beyond Bodybuilding. Pavel wrote, "Once in a blue moon I come across a training program that is simple, effective, soundly rooted in science, and easily adaptable to anyone. The NASA Pushup Program is one of these few."

The goal of the trainee was very similar to yours, "A student, at Dr. Morehouse’s class on conditioning for maximum performance, made a bet that in two month’s time he would be able to do 100 consecutive pushups, 40 being his ceiling at the time."

To summarize the plan everyday the trainee did twice as many reps as his target goal. He broke the total volume such that each set was half his current max and he rested for a fixed interval between sets. He then reduced the rest interval slightly each day until he couldn't complete the required reps in each set. At that point, he added recovery time back in a started adding a rep a day to each set until he couldn't do that anymore. Basically, rinse and repeat until goal is met.

The book describes it in better detail and there's a sample plan. Full disclosure: I haven't done this plan yet but plan to do it in an upcoming cycle for chins.
 
Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)
Back
Top Bottom