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Other/Mixed Variation (vs/&) Adaptation in Cyclical programming?

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
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Adachi

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4) Varying Exercise in each Periodization Cycle is another key. (If nothing changes, nothing is going to change).

Third, deliberate practice is critical to long-term success.

so - I'll take this opportunity to ask a question I had before but, haven't asked.

I've been re-reading the strong endurance manual - I've been reading beyond bodybuilding, for the first time and re-reading starting strength and practical programming for strength training.

these are the materials I'm synthesizing my understanding of lately.

a lot of my spare time goes into being able to peruse writings in the presence of my kids partially because leaving them unattended when I step away to lift weights can be inherently dangerous at this age, and what little time I can dedicate to being alone with the weights - I hop to optimize (at least partway).

the subject I mean to ask about came up in another post of yours @Kenny Croxdale (I believe) and I balked at it. but, I meant to get back to it because I believe part of the reason I balk is that I don't know.

this Variation (within a cycle) thing doesn't necessarily key in immediately for me, given my nascent understanding.

why vary a movement when an adaptation is being sought within a single cycle?
would this not water down and slow the adaptation within that cycle?
if, in a single cycle, I alternate deadlifts, with duck deadlifts, with sumo deadlifts, with partial range deadlifts with deadlifts standing on bumpers, etc.; am I not watering down the training effect, and delaying its acquisition; at all?

and looking at it another way - this reeks of westside barbell programming and all the facets and functions needed to continue to stimulate more adapted, late-stage, more well-developed, elder-training-age strength athletes; rather than novices or intermediates.

so I peruse your posts and I'm not quite clear on what's expected of these variations within the cycle of training. I don't seem to find a limit on the amount of variation that's being posited to benefit the practitioner. there is a maximum dose and a minimum dose to the rate of change that's being sought. there are upper and lower bounds to this function. I'm curious as to what those are supposed to be. because of the way it was framed - MY perception was that you should just rotate all the variations all the time to increase stimulus and elicit a greater response.

and I think about that.

and it could be said that I should work out once a month to delay ever adapting to the workout which would keep me in the novice stage forever. and I'd always get the biggest dose of stimulus bang for the buck right?

I understand that these don't equate but I'm trying to illustrate the strangeness of the claim that one should avoid thoroughly adapting to a stimulus within a cycle of training. there seem to be some unshared enthymemes. some arguments that are pre-known and are so basic that they don't usually require explanation; an accidental shibboleth - as it were.

what do you have to say about the way I perceive this idea of exchanging variations of exercise within a cycle in order to delay adaptation?
am I completely off base?
am I completely missing the point?

the competing logic in my mind's eye is to acquire the adaptation as quickly and thoroughly as possible so that its durability can be built upon in future training cycles like an increased muscle mass in a hypertrophy cycle being retained - for the purposes of increasing its strength 6 weeks later. and then adding additional mass to the strengthened muscle.

I believe that this stands in stark contrast to the statement of - one should actually vary the exercises in order to stave off the acquisition of adaptation. if I vary the exercises in one cycle do I not diffuse the training effect instead of concentrating on it?

I ask these questions - not as a rhetorical device - to reveal anything.
I only ask - because I don't know; I am seeking information.
 
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I am overreacting to this on purpose to illustrate my point.
I'm hoping to clarify my question.
so, using hyperbole:

The repeat bout effect dictates that I should never repeat a workout.
stated differently - I should keep my muscles confused.
or, if I should not be confusing my muscles...


what am I missing about how this plays into programming?
 
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what am I missing about how this plays into programming?

Can't answer unless you tell us what your goals are.

Are you trying to get good at an activity?

Then repeated practice generally improves efficiency, even as it drives down further incremental physical adaptation with each practice session.
 
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to clarify further - my fault - it seems to be indicated that the variations should be applied within the scope of several weeks within a single training cycle.

I'm directing my question at the claim that the variations of exercises should be an intra-cyclical programming method, in order to increase strength gains.
 
why vary a movement when an adaptation is being sought?
The General Adaptation Syndrome

The underlying principle behind this is that at some point in an exercise the body will adapt the exercise.

Once adaptation occurs progress stops.

Thus, the need to Vary Exercises. The research on this has been posted on this site.

if I alternate deadlifts, with duck deadlifts, with sumo deadlifts, with partial range deadlifts with deadlifts standing on bumpers, etc.; am I not watering down the training effect, and delaying its acquisition; at all?
Auxiliary Exercises

Duck Deadlifts, Sumo Deadlifts, Partial Range Deadlifts, Deficit Deadlifts, etc. should be use to develop Strength in a Convention Deadlift. I guess the Conventional Deadlift is what you mean.

Conventional Deadlift Technique Training.

The development of technique in a Conventional Deadlift Competition Lift is best developed with load of 85% of 1 Repetition Max for singles for

Performing Repetition with a Conventional Deadlift with Heavy Load or pushing the Repetition in a Conventional Deadlift, ensure strength is increase at the expense of Technique.

this reeks of westside barbell programming

Westside Training

Yes, the use of performing Auxiliary Exercises that work the muscle involved in let's say a Convention Deadlift with the same Ascending Strength Curve is the objective.

Dr. Tom McLaughlin, PhD (Exercise Biomechanics, Former Powerlifter)

McLaughlin research independently supported that, you guess it, "The System that Reeks, McLaughlin's research came out approximately at the same time as the Westside Method was emerging.

It reinforce the use of Auxiliary Exercise as a means of increasing strength in let's say a Conventional Deadlift.

It addressed the address the information above on how Technique Development in Competition Lifts.

Dr. Fred Hatfield's Squat

One of Dr. Fred Hatfield, who Squatted 1008 lbs, favorite Powerlifting Squat Auxiliary Exercise was High Bar Squats.

Olympic Lifter

Olympic Lifter utilized Auxiliary Exercise as a means of increasing strength for their Competition Lifts.

Olympic Lifter do not perform Set of 5 or 10 Repetitions in a Snatch or a Clean and Jerk.

Pole Vaulters

Pole Vaulters don't perform Set of 5 or 10 Repetition, none stop.
I should work out once a month to delay ever adapting to the workout which would keep me in the novice stage forever. and i'd always get the biggest dose of stimulus bang for the buck ?

Once A Month Works

Good one. ;)

However, a more effective method for ensuring increasing strength is...

Varying Exercises

To reiterate, Varying Exercise and be as simple as changing the grip width on a Bench Press or going from an Flat Bench Press to an Incline Bench Press or a Dip or Decline Bench Press.

Bodybuilders Variation of Exercises

Bodybuilders constantly integrate different type of exercise into their program to increase muscle mass.

one should actually vary the exercises in order to stave off the acquisition of adaptation.

The General Adaptation Syndrome

In regard to exercise as well as diets to lose or gain weight. Once adaptation occurs, progress stops.

Research shows that once adaptation occurs, changing the exercise is one of the keys of maintaining progress.

I am seeking information.
'"No one ever got dumbber from reading a book (research article, etc.):

There is plenty of research information online. I have posted quite a bit of it on this site regarding...
 
The further away I am from competition, the more I work on physical adaptation, and practice less.

The closer I am to competition, the less I work on physical adaptions and the more I work on practice.

In the last 4 weeks before competition, my squat numbers not only stop increasing, they start going down.

The week of competition, I won't squat at all.
 
why vary a movement when an adaptation is being sought within a single cycle?
would this not water down and slow the adaptation within that cycle?
if, in a single cycle, I alternate deadlifts, with duck deadlifts, with sumo deadlifts, with partial range deadlifts with deadlifts standing on bumpers, etc.; am I not watering down the training effect, and delaying its acquisition; at all?

and looking at it another way - this reeks of westside barbell programming and all the facets and functions needed to continue to stimulate more adapted, late-stage, more well-developed, elder-training-age strength athletes; rather than novices or intermediates.
"Watering down" is not how I would describe this. I get what you might mean by it, but I think you're just asking if you're training the movement long enough to make the adaptations you want... Technical skill development notwithstanding, I guess my question would be what adaptations do you think you'd be sacrificing by switching exercises more frequently?

Is it so bad that it "reeks of westside barbell programming"?? I don't know what recent WS protocol dictates, and forgive me if my WS knowledge is terribly out of date, but it was not uncommon to suggest 2-4 weeks of the same ME lift and accessory before switching exercises unless the lifter is advanced.
and it could be said that I should work out once a month to delay ever adapting to the workout which would keep me in the novice stage forever. and I'd always get the biggest dose of stimulus bang for the buck right?
Of course this is true if you take it to its most ridiculous extreme - you will certainly never ever reach a point of diminishing returns w. that approach, but you won't ever accrue much benefit of training either.
 
Something I always consider is strongfirsts emphasis on getting very strong without disrupting your ability to perform your duties (work, service, LEO, other sport, etc). This means minimising soreness and conserving energy is a real priority. Limiting exercises and adapting to them is a good way to get very strong and still perform other stuff.

If your sport is PL or WL or body building, you need to be even stronger at the competition lifts (or bigger for BB). As strong/ big as possible. That's the objective. So the training is different and more variation helpful.

You can get really, really strong doing just Squat / Bench / Deadlift. But if you want to lift your absolute best lift, you'll eventually need other variations, chains, box squats etc etc.

That said, Pavel does include some good specialised variety for his "GPP" type programs. Running 6 week cycles of S&S then Q&D then A+A would be an example of this. Swings and snatches performed to different cadences with different weights and rest periods.

Specialised variety.
 
@Adachi , a good question. If repetition turns out to be bad, it makes sense to ask if the opposite is the best option. And if not, where on the spectrum is the best spot.

In many research texts, we have a group training an exercise, and a control group, which does not. Both groups are tested before and after the program. The curious thing is both groups typically progress. Why? Both groups did the original test day. That said, the study group always improves more.
 
Specialised variety.

Right.

I still want my exercise variety to contribute to my overall goals.

That's one reason why I rarely bench press, even though benching more often than I do, and getting a bigger bench (I've maintained it at a mediocre 8-10 reps @ 100kg for like a decade) would probably drive lots adaptations.

But the adaptations that would come from a bigger bench press don't fit my goals.
 
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This is one of the reasons that I find "functional bodybuilding" a bit oxymoronic.

If you want to maximize aesthetic gainz, maximal variety means you're going to have to do some stuff that isn't very functional.
Bodybuilding

I admire their work ethic and devotion.

However, it's a Beauty Contest.

It's about "Show rather than Go",
 
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minimising soreness and conserving energy
Minimizing Soreness

This is or should be the objective or a well written training program.

Soreness impedes progress.

It's not unique strongfirst.

To reiterate, soreness is a self imposed condition.

More bluntly put, someone's ego overloads their ASSSSS.

Conserving Energy

I am not exacetly sure what that mean.

In a sports, you want to be efficient; utilize the least amount of effort to get the job done.

That is the underlying objective of Technique Training and Development.

Limiting exercises and adapting to them is a good way to get very strong and still perform other stuff.

Varying Exercise

This approach is an effective method of getting even stronger, if it is a well written and performed program.

Changes in exercises are more effective than in loading schemes to improve muscle strength
Changes in exercises are more effective than in loading schemes to improve muscle strength - PubMed

This study investigated the effects of varying strength exercises and loading scheme on muscle cross-sectional area (CSA) and maximum strength after 4 strength training loading schemes: constant intensity and constant exercise (CICE), constant intensity and varied exercise (CIVE), varied intensity and constant exercise (VICE), varied intensity and varied exercise (VIVE). ...The CIVE and VIVE groups presented hypertrophy in all of the quadriceps muscle heads (p ≤ 0.05), whereas the CICE and VICE groups did not present hypertrophy in the vastus medialis and rectus femoris (RF), and in the RF muscles, respectively (p > 0.05). The CIVE group had greater strength increments than the other training groups (effect size confidence limit of the difference [ESCLdiff] CICE: 1.41-1.56; VICE: 2.13-2.28; VIVE: 0.59-0.75). Our findings suggest: (a) CIVE is more efficient to produce strength gains for physically active individuals; (b) as long as the training intensity reaches an alleged threshold, muscle hypertrophy is similar regardless of the training intensity and exercise variation.

If your sport is PL or WL or body building, you need to be even stronger at the competition lifts (or bigger for BB).

Bodybuilding

It does not meet the definition of being a sport. To reiterate, it is a Beauty Contest without interviews.

As someone once commented, "Bodybuilders look like Tarzan and lift like Jane."

However, Dr. Brad Schoenfeld's reasearch on Bodybuiiding determined that one of the three components for increasing muscle mass is Mechanical Tension (Maximum Strength Training).

Dr. Michael Zourdos research demonstareted that Conjugate Training (employ different type of Strength in the same program) was more effective at increasing Maxium Strength.

Zourdos' research reinforced the Westside Method.

I still want my exercise variety to contribute to my overall goals.

The Training Ojective

The choice of Varying Auxiliary Exercise is designed to reach the objective.
 
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@Adachi, there are variables in this equation. If you're new to lifting, or even just new to particular lift, your best bet is to practice until you find adaptations slowing, and you would focus on skill/form/technique.

That accomplished, then more variety in exercise selection, with that variety aimed at improving your weaknesses in the main lift you want to improve, becomes more important. But even having reached the intermediate stage - an admittedly vague thing, I realize - one can often continue to make progress by varying the particulars of the lifting program/schedule on the main lift itself.

So, yes, for some people in some circumstances, diluting the practice of the main lift isn't the best course of action. And these things can play out over many time frames, not just what might be considered a single training cycle. This is why coaching and programming are a mix of science and art.

-S-
 

Only 30% of An Exercise Overloads The Muscles

Research by Dr. Gideon Ariel determined that approximately 30% of the muscles are Overloaded in any exercise.

That means that 70% of the muscles in an exercise are Underloaded.

Underloading the muscles elicit a minimal positive effect.

Overloading the muscle evokes an greater optimal effect.

Accommodating Resistance

Attaching Chains, Bands or Bungees ensures the muscles are worked (Overloaded) through a greater range of the movement

Rather than only Overloading the muscles in 30% of an exercise, muscles are Overloaded closer to 100% of the movement.

Thus, Attaching Chains, Bands or Bungees provide a greater retun for individual, regardless of if they are athletes or average individuals.

Ascending Strength Curve Accommondating Resistance

Ascending Strenth Curve means exercises that are harder at the bottom and easiser at the top.

Ascending Strength Cuve Exercises elict a greater training effect with Chains, Bands or Bungees.

Exercise Examples

Squats, Bench Press, Shoulder Press, Dips, Incline Press. Deadlifts. Leg Press, etc.

Attaching Chains, Bands or Bungees to these exercise allows individual to increase the loading as the Bar is moved closer to lockout; it Overloads the muscles at the top end of the range of the movement where they are stronger and need more resistance.

Descending Strength Curve Exercises

Descending Strength Curve means exercises that are easy at the beginning at hard at the end.

Attaching Chains, Bands or Bungees does not allow the loading at the beginning of the movemement. It only make the end of the range of the movement even harder. The Overloading of the exercises in Descending Strength Exercise remain at 30%.

Expercise Examples

Bent Over Rows, Lat Pulldowns, Upright Rows, Pull Ups, 90 Degree Back Raises, etc

Bell Shaped Curve Strength Exercises

Bell Shaped Curve is generally single joint exercise.

These exercises are easy at the beginning, hard in the middle range of the movement and easy at the top.

The Overloading of the Bell Shaped Curve Strength Exercise remain at 30%; there's no Overloading at the beginning or end of the range of these movements.

Exercise Examples

Curls, Triceps Pushdowns, 45 Degree Back Raises, etc.

Summary

1) Only 30% of the muscles in a movement are Overloaded in exercises. To ensure greater gains in Maxium Strength, Power and Hypertrophy, muscles need to Overload throughout the full range of the movement.

2) Chains, Bands or Bungees allow musles to be Overloaded through a greater range of the movement; eliciting a greater training response.

3) Individual interested in optimizing maximizing gain in a Ascending Strength Curve Exercise should consider attaching Chains, Bands of Bungees.

Accommodating Resistance yield a greater return for the time invested athletes and others, as well
 
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