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Other/Mixed Variety Day Exercises for Rifle Carry?

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
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@Alaska80 thanks for the info! I spend a lot of time in the mountains of Idaho, Wyoming, and Montana, so bears are definitely a concern. When carrying stuff, does it matter if it is up close in front or in a suitcase carry position? Or just do all of it at will?

I don't do any formal agility stuff, but I do spend a decent amount of time playing with my friend's kids, and they all do gymnastics, or dance, or something like that. So trying to keep up with them is a challenge.

I've come to a similar conclusion, that once a certain level of strength is built, I would then be best served maintaining it and increasing work capacity and aerobic endurance. What do you think that point of sufficient strength is? I'm male, 23 years old, 165 lbs, and 5' 11". But the mountain don't care about that...

@Steve Freides SE is definitely on my list. At the end of this month I'll be taking the KB 101 & 201 user courses. On a side note, do you have any recommendations on preparing for those? I'm on the cusp of attaining Timed Simple, and plan to get it before the courses.
 
Ruck and ruck a lot, vary the load in cycles to keep your body fresh. Farmers carries have never hurt anyone either.
 
Wifi said:
@Steve Freides SE is definitely on my list. At the end of this month I'll be taking the KB 101 & 201 user courses. On a side note, do you have any recommendations on preparing for those? I'm on the cusp of attaining Timed Simple, and plan to get it before the courses.
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You might want to post video here for feedback - but Timed Simple is great!

-S-
 
Wifi said:
@Alaska80 thanks for the info! I spend a lot of time in the mountains of Idaho, Wyoming, and Montana, so bears are definitely a concern. When carrying stuff, does it matter if it is up close in front or in a suitcase carry position? Or just do all of it at will?

I don't do any formal agility stuff, but I do spend a decent amount of time playing with my friend's kids, and they all do gymnastics, or dance, or something like that. So trying to keep up with them is a challenge.

I've come to a similar conclusion, that once a certain level of strength is built, I would then be best served maintaining it and increasing work capacity and aerobic endurance. What do you think that point of sufficient strength is? I'm male, 23 years old, 165 lbs, and 5' 11". But the mountain don't care about that...

@Steve Freides SE is definitely on my list. At the end of this month I'll be taking the KB 101 & 201 user courses. On a side note, do you have any recommendations on preparing for those? I'm on the cusp of attaining Timed Simple, and plan to get it before the courses.
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Carrying stuff: Do it at will. The idea is just to get the body used to awkward weight placement. For me it is the one type of training that I weight heavier than what I will actually experience in the field. For instance, I will usually carry a 15-20lb weight in my hand to simulate the rifle, whereas my rifle weighs 6.5lbs. That is not the case with rucking, my heaviest loads (moose) will weigh close to if not a touch over 200lbs (HQ+gear+water+rifle), I never ruck with more than 100lbs prior to the season and usually stay in the 65lb range anymore than that and there is too much risk regarding injury.

Agility: Playing with kids is one of the best agility training programs. Too many adults simply stop moving. Move often and move well.

Sufficient Strength: I have toyed with a lot of strength to weight ratios. The one that has worked the best for me, tweaked slightly, is Mountain Tactical Institute's strength standards for Tactical Athletes. It is as follows:
Back Squat 1.75 x BW. (MTI has FSQ here, but for me BSQ makes more sense)
DL 2.0 x BW.
Bench Press 1.25x BW (This is slightly less than there 1.5, but upper body pressing is not as important when you are not slamming bad guys up against a wall)
Pull Ups 15

Anything above these numbers for me is a waste.

Excess weight matters a lot, even if its muscle, its heavy and you have to feed it. I got up to 210 once with fairly low BF and it was way too much muscle.

@ 5'11 and 165, I would venture to guess you would do good by putting on about 10lbs and seeing where you are at from there. I am 41yo 6'0 and my ideal mountain weight is about 195. Whereas if I were a true alpinist my ideal BW would be closer to 175-180, but they move light, fast and long whereas, I move heavy, not fast and long.

You mentioned in your original thread that your shoulders begin to get sore with a sling. The best way I have found to eliminate sore traps when hiking, hunting, rucking...anything really is to train with a heavy weight vest. I have tried body armor and used to wear it all the time when I was in the Infantry, but nothing has conditioned my shoulders/traps for really long miles and heavy weight like the weight vest. Having the weight ride solely on your traps sucks, but it is great training. I barely feel the heavy loads on my shoulders when I am in the field and it is mostly attributed to the heavy weight vest walks. I will even wear a non waist banded back pack over my vest to make it even more miserable. It sucks while training but has made my packing a true joy.
 
Alaska80 gives very solid advice, mountain hunting is in a whole different world. Walking on flat or mostly flat ground is one thing, add a steep grade, brush and deadfall and the difficulty goes way up. Add in a loaded pack and it really gets hard, pass 100 pounds and you will question your life choices.
Alaska80 mentioned the Kifaru gun bearer, I could never get used to having that barrel in my face. Another option that works pretty well is the Stone Glacier rifle sling, it's more back out of the way but allows fast access like the Kifaru.
I never worried about carrying something while rucking and training, it never took me more than a couple days to get used to carrying a rifle again, but I work with my hands so that won't apply to desk jockeys.
 
Wifi said:
Not particularly heavy, but I haven't weighed it.


I do ruck on a semi-regular basis (walk to work when I have time, add weight to my backpack). The weight of the rifle on my hips and legs isn't an issue, but the shoulders are a different story.


Interesting. Do you know where/which book?

I do use a sling, and it is typically my neck/upper shoulder that gets really sore quickly. So then I try holding in my hands in front of me, which then tires out my arms. If all I cared about was transporting the rifle, I'd definitely strap it to the pack. But taking it off makes unnecessary noise and takes time when there's a tasty animal downrange.
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I’m curious, what are you hunting that the animal is close enough to easily hear you?

When I hunt deer or boar I’m usually 200 or 300 yards away
 
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silveraw said:
I've never spent any real time in Grizzly country, just black bear (which at most you just need a stick to get them to leave you alone, slapped a few black bears in the snoot growing up). I always assumed you would want a beefy sidearm readily accessible for these situations.
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Lots of black bears here. The moms can be an issue.

But I’ve had more dangerous close calls with boars
 
I'd think anything in hand while rucking/hiking/walking would be a good start. Something long, skinny and fairly heavy even better. A metal fence post cut to a similar length as your rifle would be dandy.

Do not discount a Kifaru gum bearer. I've used one for a long time and won't hunt with my pack on with out it. The barrel in front of your face was easy for me to get over once I got it adjusted correctly. Makes a handy place to hang your hat when you get to sweating! Also very helpful to help steady your binoculars when glassing while standing.
 
Wifi said:
I do use a sling, and it is typically my neck/upper shoulder that gets really sore quickly. So then I try holding in my hands in front of me, which then tires out my arms. If all I cared about was transporting the rifle, I'd definitely strap it to the pack. But taking it off makes unnecessary noise and takes time when there's a tasty animal downrange.
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I feel your pain. Typically I'll cross my arms with the mag well and grip in the crooks of my elbows. Gets the weight off my shoulders, keeps it secure, looks like I care.
 
watchnerd said:
I’m curious, what are you hunting that the animal is close enough to easily hear you?

When I hunt deer or boar I’m usually 200 or 300 yards away
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Elk and deer. I've had them hear me shuffling from 150 yards.

Alaska80 said:
Carrying stuff: Do it at will. The idea is just to get the body used to awkward weight placement. For me it is the one type of training that I weight heavier than what I will actually experience in the field. For instance, I will usually carry a 15-20lb weight in my hand to simulate the rifle, whereas my rifle weighs 6.5lbs. That is not the case with rucking, my heaviest loads (moose) will weigh close to if not a touch over 200lbs (HQ+gear+water+rifle), I never ruck with more than 100lbs prior to the season and usually stay in the 65lb range anymore than that and there is too much risk regarding injury.

Agility: Playing with kids is one of the best agility training programs. Too many adults simply stop moving. Move often and move well.

Sufficient Strength: I have toyed with a lot of strength to weight ratios. The one that has worked the best for me, tweaked slightly, is Mountain Tactical Institute's strength standards for Tactical Athletes. It is as follows:
Back Squat 1.75 x BW. (MTI has FSQ here, but for me BSQ makes more sense)
DL 2.0 x BW.
Bench Press 1.25x BW (This is slightly less than there 1.5, but upper body pressing is not as important when you are not slamming bad guys up against a wall)
Pull Ups 15

Anything above these numbers for me is a waste.

Excess weight matters a lot, even if its muscle, its heavy and you have to feed it. I got up to 210 once with fairly low BF and it was way too much muscle.

@ 5'11 and 165, I would venture to guess you would do good by putting on about 10lbs and seeing where you are at from there. I am 41yo 6'0 and my ideal mountain weight is about 195. Whereas if I were a true alpinist my ideal BW would be closer to 175-180, but they move light, fast and long whereas, I move heavy, not fast and long.

You mentioned in your original thread that your shoulders begin to get sore with a sling. The best way I have found to eliminate sore traps when hiking, hunting, rucking...anything really is to train with a heavy weight vest. I have tried body armor and used to wear it all the time when I was in the Infantry, but nothing has conditioned my shoulders/traps for really long miles and heavy weight like the weight vest. Having the weight ride solely on your traps sucks, but it is great training. I barely feel the heavy loads on my shoulders when I am in the field and it is mostly attributed to the heavy weight vest walks. I will even wear a non waist banded back pack over my vest to make it even more miserable. It sucks while training but has made my packing a true joy.
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Good info! Once those strength numbers are reached, what do you do for resistance training aside from maintenance. I would venture to guess lots of MAF rucking and running and A+A/Q&D work 3x a week would do the trick.
 
Wifi said:
Elk and deer. I've had them hear me shuffling from 150 yards.


Good info! Once those strength numbers are reached, what do you do for resistance training aside from maintenance. I would venture to guess lots of MAF rucking and running and A+A/Q&D work 3x a week would do the trick.
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I really like Geoff Neupert's BB bolt on to maintain absolute strength. It is minimal, but more than enough to maintain and even progress if you want to. Other good BB programs are Tactical Barbell and Wendler's 5/3/1. There are many more, but I am most familiar with these and they work. All of them have minimalist templates. I do perform a lot of A+A/Q&D /PFT type work. My favorites modes are with the snatch, C&P and Jerk.
I add in other movement throughout my day as I feel like it. My goal is to teach my body to do constant work, so I will grease the groove pull ups, push ups, swings, lunges, crawling, stairs, loaded carries etc. Really whatever I feel like doing at that particular time. I do not "train" these movements but keep it easy. Doing them consistently and often makes me feel refreshed and I am certain my training recovery is enhanced by doing them. Though where I erred early on is forcing them in, the hardest lesson to learn for someone who loves to train is to do less when necessary not more. So if I do not "feel" like working out, for me that is a sign to back off and take it easy for a few days. Whereas, when I used to not "feel" like working out I told myself to suck it up and I did it anyway. 100% of the time that attitude eventually lead to injury. Think of your fitness as a lifetime journey with ebbs and flows and it wont bother you so much when you realize you cannot be at peak performance 100% of the time.
 
Ah, knowing when to push and when to hold back. Ego is usually my worst enemy.

@Alaska80 It sounds like you peak out at 1/3bw in normal rucking loads. Does the capacity to haul out the moose loads just come from the strength reserve? Or is it one of those things that just sucks no matter what, and you have to grind through it only when you have to?
 
Wifi said:
Ah, knowing when to push and when to hold back. Ego is usually my worst enemy.

@Alaska80 It sounds like you peak out at 1/3bw in normal rucking loads. Does the capacity to haul out the moose loads just come from the strength reserve? Or is it one of those things that just sucks no matter what, and you have to grind through it only when you have to?
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I don't necessarily peak at 1/3 BW rucks, I just make that 75% percent of my training. I will ebb up to 150lbs for very short periods and one of the best methods for heavy pack training I have found are HICT step ups. You only use a 12in box, but you load your pack as heavy as you can handle while doing 1 step up explosively every 4-5 seconds. This is done continuously for anywhere from 8-24 min. If you have the aerobic base though I do think the strength reserve from the DLs and BSQ are sufficient from a strength aspect to pack 150+lb loads. Really, heavy rucking is about getting your shoulders calloused to uncomfortable loads, which is why I often make my training very uncomfortable. I will intentionally wear straps the wrong way just to accentuate the load on my shoulders.

As for packing moose, I would not say it 's easy, but I have done so much of it I truly enjoy the pack out. I have packed out over 30 moose over the years and countless caribou and since switching to this methodology it has become pure pleasure. I like working for my family's food. I have trained specifically to make myself suck more in training so I can enjoy the "suck" while in the field. Don't get me wrong though, throw in some rough terrain and the HQ on a moose can seem soul crushing, but in a glorious way.

One of the best mind sets I took from my time in the Infantry was when I was training with the Nepalese Gurkhas in the Himalayas. I know I have heard similar sayings elsewhere, but it seemed to carry more weight there whilst trekking up and down mountains all day. Their mantra was "we sweat in peace so we do not bleed in war." I have pretty much incorporated that philosophy in all my aspects of my life.
 
watchnerd said:
I’m curious, what are you hunting that the animal is close enough to easily hear you?

When I hunt deer or boar I’m usually 200 or 300 yards away
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I've mostly hunted northern WI and MN. Getting a shot over 100 yards is very rare due to the forests being so dense. As such I've never successfully stalked a deer. I've met a couple guys that do stalk successfully up there, but they are freakishly quiet in the woods. It isn't a widespread technique for sure. Mostly sitting still and waiting or doing coordinated drive.

It is kinda nice though because you can use classic carbines like a 30.30 marlin successfully.
 
@Alaska80 Sweat in peace to avoid bleeding in war, I like that. Do you do any running as part of your training?

@Steve Freides Recording my swings was quite insightful. What do you think?


My first observation is my knees coming towards. Not past the toes, but far from vertical-ish shins. Any suggestions on how to fix that?
 
Wifi said:
@Steve Freides Recording my swings was quite insightful. What do you think?


My first observation is my knees coming towards. Not past the toes, but far from vertical-ish shins. Any suggestions on how to fix that?
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Those look like strong, safe swings to me. There are a few things you could work on improving, but you’re most of the way there, in my opinion. Don’t worry about your knees coming forward a little bit, that’s fine. I would try to keep your shoulder from pulling forward at the top of your swings. And of course, like most of us, you could focus on getting more into your hips at the back most portion of the movement.

But keep doing what you’re doing.

-S-
 
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