North Coast Miller
Level 9 Valued Member
I made the mistake of looking into egg production and found myself trying to come to terms with a "maserator".
Way more consideration for where my eggs come from...
Nutrition Vegan Eating
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I made the mistake of looking into egg production and found myself trying to come to terms with a "maserator".
Way more consideration for where my eggs come from...
Oscar
Level 7 Valued Member
This was a typical day when I was strict raw vegan. All quantities where by feel, eating as much as I wanted or even more.
- breakfast: 8 apples
- Lunch: smoothie of 8 oranges, 5 bananas and a ton of spinach.
- snack: 2 mangoes
- dinner: a huge salad including avocados, maybe nuts.
Nowadays that I'm not strict I might add at dinner some rice, beans of any type, pasta, whatever I want.
You might wonder about protein... well, this will sound strange in a strength forum, but I didn't eat any protein. I barely eat protein nowadays. Actually, I do eat protein: about 5% of fruits and veggies calories are protein. But I didn't eat protein-rich foods. I don't think proteins are needed for a healthy life. I have barely eaten protein rich foods in 3 years and I'm not fatter, I'm not thinner, I'm not weaker, I'm not stronger. Everything is equal.
When I turned to vegetarianism and then veganism I was doing crossfit, and my main concern was proteins. I spent days and days trying to find protein rich foods. I then researched some more, and found that there are no specific recommendations for protein quantities for a healthy life. So I just forgot about proteins and didn't feel a difference.
About choosing veganism or vegetarianism : the main difference between these two are eggs and dairy, vegetarians eat them, vegans don't. As with meat, there are a bunch of reasons for eating and for not eating dairy and eggs. For instance:
- both have proteins, so if you want proteins, you might like them.
- one could consider that is not natural for an adult human to eat a food designed for the baby of other species. As adults, we don't even drink the milk of our own species.
- from an ethical point of view, dairy and eggs are not that different from meat. So whoever is a vegetarian for ethical reasons could as well consider veganism.
From a practical point of view, I think that being a "week day vegetarian (or vegan)" would give you the best of both worlds, and would also make a significant difference from an ethical point of view.
Maine-ah KB
Level 7 Valued Member
Farmers markets. Or if you don’t live in a city see if there are any farms near by and set up an order.
Kettlebelephant
Level 6 Valued Member
This is question for the vegans/vegetarians who do it it because of the ethical reasons.
How do you deal with the fact that the increasing amount of vegans and vegetarians causes issues for 3rd world countries?
I know that @North Coast Miller is aware of this, but a lot of people don't know that for example the price for quinoa significantly increased, because of the higher demand from western countries. Mostly due to all the westeners who want be more healthy and a huge part of those are vegans or vegatarians.
Quinoa makes up the majority of the food in a lot of poorer countries like Bolivia or Peru.
The prices got so high that they can't afford it anymore.
They are starving, because westeners want to get their protein from vegan sources and quinoa is one of the best.
I don't understand how passively abusing and killing animals is ethically wrong in their minds, but passively starving people is ok.
If you do it for ethical reasons than don't cherry pick -> don't go vegetarian, but completely vegan and on top of it avoid quinoa and other foods that cause the same problem.
How do you deal with the fact that the increasing amount of vegans and vegetarians causes issues for 3rd world countries?
I know that @North Coast Miller is aware of this, but a lot of people don't know that for example the price for quinoa significantly increased, because of the higher demand from western countries. Mostly due to all the westeners who want be more healthy and a huge part of those are vegans or vegatarians.
Quinoa makes up the majority of the food in a lot of poorer countries like Bolivia or Peru.
The prices got so high that they can't afford it anymore.
They are starving, because westeners want to get their protein from vegan sources and quinoa is one of the best.
I don't understand how passively abusing and killing animals is ethically wrong in their minds, but passively starving people is ok.
If you do it for ethical reasons than don't cherry pick -> don't go vegetarian, but completely vegan and on top of it avoid quinoa and other foods that cause the same problem.
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Chrisdavisjr
Level 7 Valued Member
It's an interesting point and a serious issue. Unfortunately, business and consumerism is rife with exploitation. The quinoa example is frequently cited, but there are similar stories with a number of popular foods, of both animal and plant origin (palm oil and African beef spring to mind).
Ethical consumerism as it pertains to human exploitation is not part of the vegan movement per se, however most ethical vegans tend to take an interest in where all of their food (and other products) come from.
Quinoa in particular and the people who require it to thrive have fallen prey to marketing and the seemingly-ubiquitous and virtually meaningless 'superfood' label.
I've managed to find quinoa grown close to me in the UK, however I don't eat it myself because I can't seem to cook it without burning it and I don't really like it all that much anyway.
I do try my best to source all of my food responsibly as I would not want to place a greater importance in animal welfare than human welfare but it can be very difficult. A little research goes a long way.
I composed this post on my phone so apologies if there are spelling or grammatical errors.
Oscar
Level 7 Valued Member
@Kettlebelephant , lack of food in Peru or Bolivia is not caused by people wanting to eat quinoa, but because of poor wealth distribution in their countries. If anything, the fact that one of their products multiplied by 10 its commercial value should have been beneficial for the country and their people.
Bringing up that issue with quinoa is similar to saying "those poor Germans now have to walk, because those bastard American millonaires bought all their Mercedes Benz, Audis and BMW".
Bringing up that issue with quinoa is similar to saying "those poor Germans now have to walk, because those bastard American millonaires bought all their Mercedes Benz, Audis and BMW".
North Coast Miller
Level 9 Valued Member
Agreed - its a human rights issue wrapped in a corrupt international trade regime tied up with moral hazard/limited liability business ownership. As another example, Chiquita banana formerly United fruit, and Dole have both been found guilty of funding death-squad labor movement suppression. For $0.49/lb you probably couldn't have dirt shipped to the US, but somehow these bananas are sold at profit for that amount.
One thing about quinoa, it raised the consciousness of folks about where their food comes from and the implications is might have regionally and in some cases, globally. All that said, there is a difference between unintended collateral and direct intent.
Kettlebelephant
Level 6 Valued Member
It still is one of the reasons though.
Everyone with a tiny bit of education knows about how wealth distribution in those countries and capitalism*** in general works.
You know that importing something from those countries will a) over time raise the price and b) most likely no money will end up in the hands of the people who produce it.
That's like saying "I'm supporting the farmers, not my fault that they live in a crappy country." Which is ok. I'm not judging people for not caring about every single problem in the world.
My point was people not being consequent with their ethical justification - see my comment about cherry picking.
If feel the same about e.g. people who drive an electric car to "save the planet" who take the plane to go on their holiday, buy strawberrys in the winter and heat their house using gas.
***I think we can agree that capitalism is the main reason for all of those issues.
It's the reason for craming 75 cows in a truck that was designed to transport 50.
It's the reason for 3 chickens sitting in a cage that was designed for only 1.
Etc.
Oscar
Level 7 Valued Member
Agreed, we can agree on that
. I think that our mere existence puts a burden on the planet. We have to eat, drink, poo, etc. If we choose to eat quinoa, other people will have less quinoa to eat. If we choose to eat meat, a cow will be killed, the Amazon Forest will be destroyed for meat production, Amazon Indians lose their place to live, etc. No matter what we do, our actions will have consequences. The only thing we can do is try to minimize the damage we do to the planet and others, if we want to do so.
For instance, eating meat is, surface-wise, 7 times less efficient than eating vegetables***. Meaning: 1 calorie of meat takes 7 times more land to produce than 1 calorie of vegetables. This is one of the reasons why being a vegetarian (vegan) significantly reduces the burden we put on the planet.
*** I dont remember if it was 7 times or 15 times or the exact figure, but it is in that range. It is basically because cows are vegan, so when we eat cows we are basically adding one step more in the food chain, losing a lot of energy in the process.
Snowman
Level 6 Valued Member
I think this is the key thing that people need to acknowledge. Even very responsible agricultural practices (and most of them aren't) still result in habitat destruction, death through pest control, and some degree of pollution. Whether it's plant or animal based agriculture, we are always going to be directly or indirectly killing other animals (and fellow humans) so that we may survive and enjoy a certain quality of life. I think it's important to ensure that the food you're eating was produced in way that is congruent with your morals, and realize that it's not a black and white (killing/not killing) issue. Because of that understanding, I usually have a hard time judging other people just because their "food standards" are a little lower than mine... If your beliefs require that your life doesn't negatively impact the life of any other living creatures, then the only answer I can think of is running around the mountains naked until you become a supporting member of the food chain
kenaces
Level 5 Valued Member
Now that I have been eating "Vegan" for 105 days, and have gotten my blood work back. My cholesterol has gone from 270 to 176!
Makes me wonder what it would go down to if I took a more low-fat vegan approach, because I still ate a lot of PB, cash milk ice cream, and other fats.(~1/3 of my calories from fat).
Makes me wonder what it would go down to if I took a more low-fat vegan approach, because I still ate a lot of PB, cash milk ice cream, and other fats.(~1/3 of my calories from fat).
Chrisdavisjr
Level 7 Valued Member
Nice work! I wouldn't worry about your fat consumption though. If you're weightier than you'd like to be, dropping calories overall is the way forward; the body needs fats though (and PB is the bomb).
elli
Level 10 Valued Member
There are vegans who we call 'pudding-vegans' because they eat a lot of convinience vegan food, like bars, tofu, vegan 'steaks' etc. Pretty much everything in the supermarket where 'vegan' is printed on. It is such a hipe! They do not care about prices for certain grains etc....if sth goes viral andis the nutritional trendit is actuallytime to become sceptic! Allmighty industry....sucks!
And there are vegans (like I try to be for a few weeks) who eat seasonal and regional food.
And there are vegans (like I try to be for a few weeks) who eat seasonal and regional food.
Chrisdavisjr
Level 7 Valued Member
I think I fall somewhere in between the two. I eat fairly well, cooking most of my meals from scratch, but I do like my snacks (I just polished off a Trek protein flapjack with the day's second cup of coffee) and I've recently discovered that Betty Crocker's chocolate fudge brownie mix is vegan if you bake it without eggs.
Chrisdavisjr
Level 7 Valued Member
Thought I'd give this thread a bump as @spicykaiju and @Oscar have both expressed an interest in further discussing plant-based nutrition as it pertains to strength/athletic training and I don't want to totally hijack the 2018 goals thread or start a brand new thread when we have a perfectly good thread already.
Just as a polite reminder, the focus of this discussion should remain on nutrition, not ethics or environmental issues as that would fall outside of the scope of this forum. With that in mind, please feel free to ask questions and share insights, experiences and recipes/meal ideas.
Just as a polite reminder, the focus of this discussion should remain on nutrition, not ethics or environmental issues as that would fall outside of the scope of this forum. With that in mind, please feel free to ask questions and share insights, experiences and recipes/meal ideas.
North Coast Miller
Level 9 Valued Member
I'd like to see some average daily diets of vegan athletes on the forum. I've tried it with and without success a handful of times, managing to put on a fair amount of lean mass, but I ran into issues of maintaining variety, lengthy meal prep, increasing intolerance to soy (maybe).
I felt as though I was overlooking some very basic principles that could have made meal planning a lot easier. When I looked at what a lot of vegan athletes and BBers were eating it seemed to be centered around supplements and very expensive plant protein isolate.
ali
Level 7 Valued Member
Xmas dinner was vegan and very nice it was. As my daughter was home I was almost vegan for 5 days. Say almost, veggie due to eggs and milk in my tea, some chocolate etc but no meat. Fantastic sausage and bacon casserole yesterday though, mind blowing meat induced euphoria.
I, hand on heart, could not be vegan. My daughter has calmed her vegan aggression now at least and spares me her crusade of injustices. She too has compromised,, realising that a lot of vegan claims on health and nutrition are misguided. She now eats better and takes a lorry load of supplements.
Actually swapping out some meat dishes for veggie or vegan options is pretty easy.....I prefer veggie chilli now in all honesty. I've had to stop making bone broth due to domestic aroma issues and slug back collagen in a milk shake instead. I"m not giving up liver and onions and occasional steak though. I can go for a while with little or no meat before having a need for some. I'm happy with this. So far.
I, hand on heart, could not be vegan. My daughter has calmed her vegan aggression now at least and spares me her crusade of injustices. She too has compromised,, realising that a lot of vegan claims on health and nutrition are misguided. She now eats better and takes a lorry load of supplements.
Actually swapping out some meat dishes for veggie or vegan options is pretty easy.....I prefer veggie chilli now in all honesty. I've had to stop making bone broth due to domestic aroma issues and slug back collagen in a milk shake instead. I"m not giving up liver and onions and occasional steak though. I can go for a while with little or no meat before having a need for some. I'm happy with this. So far.
Chrisdavisjr
Level 7 Valued Member
The main health advantage for me comes from having to prepare almost all of my own food.
It was far too easy for me to consume cheap, poor quality prepared food on an omnivorous diet. There is certainly more vegan junk food available than 7 years ago when I started out, but it's still harder to obtain and more expensive so I end up eating a lot less of what I don't need (additives, bulking agents, sugars and fats) although my own diet is still nothing special.
I'm still skeptical that a carefully planned and well implemented plant-based diet offers any particular advantages over a similar diet containing animal products (apart from, perhaps, costing a lot less).
There are a number of anecdotal reports from people claiming that switching to a vegan diet improved their recovery and boosted their 'energy levels' (whatever that's supposed to mean) but this is probably just because it's the first time they've included an adequate intage of vegetables in their diet.
Essentially, I see no real advantage from a purely nutritional standpoint, nor do I see any disadvantages (vitamin B12 supplementation being a minor inconvenience at most, rather than a disadvantage) to following a vegan diet.
The tendency of most omnivores (outside of the athletic/strength community at least) to eat a fairly poor diet compared to that of the average vegetarian or vegan has given rise to the idea that it's 'healthier' even though there's nothing to stop you from eating a really poor diet consisting entirely of plants.
Oscar
Level 7 Valued Member
I have eaten diets from the very end of the spectrum to the other. That is, pure raw vegan (only fruits and raw veggies) to strict meat and greens only. And I have sustained either for a while to adapt to it. In my experience, there is no significant difference between them, aside from personal preference. I never eat supplements in neither of them.
I invite all vegans and meat eaters to unite against wheat and refined sugars.
I invite all vegans and meat eaters to unite against wheat and refined sugars.
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