North Coast Miller
Level 9 Valued Member
Whole grain bread and honey?!
Never!
Never!
Nutrition Vegan Eating
- Thread starter Michael Scott
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the hansenator
Level 6 Valued Member
That's my thought as well. I think it's unlikely that someone will suddenly lose weight, have more energy, and be generally healthier because they gave up eating wild caught Alaskan salmon and organic free range chicken breasts.
ali
Level 7 Valued Member
From a health perspective, there are 2 strands.
1. veganism is healthier due to the lack of cancer forming and alzheimer promting animal proteins, milk causing autism, artery clogging saturated animal fats.
2. veganism is healthier because of an abundance of fruit and vegetables in all its diversity and nutrient giving forms.
Those that focus on number 2, no argument. But no 1? That's the line of PETA and aggressive vegan propaganda. Unfortunately, with health and health scares being top of the anxiety list for the health conscious and longevity seeking number 1 becomes a belief which turns into a scientific fact.
If the vegan machine dropped the number 1 from their manifesto and focused more on the health giving properties of the diet itself rather than attacking other foods and diets then maybe they'd come across a little more reasonable......this is not aimed at any one vegan individual but at PETA and Netflix documentary makers, you know the ones. You could argue the same other food knocking stances of the keto army, paleo, carnivores, low calorie, low fat dogmatic approaches to food to be fair.
That's the problem with number 1 - focusing on other non vegan foods as bad and unhealthy - it instils beliefs that soon resort to late nights scrolling the dark web for a laser guided bazooka for a planned attack on a biologist who uses animals for testing and how to make petrol bombs to blow up your nearest butcher shop. Health and extremism become one.
It's difficult to separate health issues from other moral and environmental issues that veganism raises because all are clouded by each other in a way. When the rights of and the suffering of animals somehow merge into milk causing autism is a worry - quite why it should be a worry is a worry in itself isn't it? It the tips into science denialism on both sides - denying the science of climate change on one hand to the flagrant abuse of science on the other.....from all sides, vegans and non vegans. All just to win an argument. The problem is no one knows what the argument is anymore, with diets and health that is.
In seeking a balance to this for my own sanity and health: omnivory with a nod towards veggies, less meat consumption to do a bit for the climate but not lose any muscle and source that meat from your nearest convenient ethical butcher according to your budget and moral compass?
Brexit this year of course. I may end up on a long keto diet not of my choosing. Locally sourced turnip and the occassional rabbit that I'm going to have to work out how to snare. May well be my diet this time next year. A proper starving evolotionary hunter gatherer. Good for genetic expression apparently.
1. veganism is healthier due to the lack of cancer forming and alzheimer promting animal proteins, milk causing autism, artery clogging saturated animal fats.
2. veganism is healthier because of an abundance of fruit and vegetables in all its diversity and nutrient giving forms.
Those that focus on number 2, no argument. But no 1? That's the line of PETA and aggressive vegan propaganda. Unfortunately, with health and health scares being top of the anxiety list for the health conscious and longevity seeking number 1 becomes a belief which turns into a scientific fact.
If the vegan machine dropped the number 1 from their manifesto and focused more on the health giving properties of the diet itself rather than attacking other foods and diets then maybe they'd come across a little more reasonable......this is not aimed at any one vegan individual but at PETA and Netflix documentary makers, you know the ones. You could argue the same other food knocking stances of the keto army, paleo, carnivores, low calorie, low fat dogmatic approaches to food to be fair.
That's the problem with number 1 - focusing on other non vegan foods as bad and unhealthy - it instils beliefs that soon resort to late nights scrolling the dark web for a laser guided bazooka for a planned attack on a biologist who uses animals for testing and how to make petrol bombs to blow up your nearest butcher shop. Health and extremism become one.
It's difficult to separate health issues from other moral and environmental issues that veganism raises because all are clouded by each other in a way. When the rights of and the suffering of animals somehow merge into milk causing autism is a worry - quite why it should be a worry is a worry in itself isn't it? It the tips into science denialism on both sides - denying the science of climate change on one hand to the flagrant abuse of science on the other.....from all sides, vegans and non vegans. All just to win an argument. The problem is no one knows what the argument is anymore, with diets and health that is.
In seeking a balance to this for my own sanity and health: omnivory with a nod towards veggies, less meat consumption to do a bit for the climate but not lose any muscle and source that meat from your nearest convenient ethical butcher according to your budget and moral compass?
Brexit this year of course. I may end up on a long keto diet not of my choosing. Locally sourced turnip and the occassional rabbit that I'm going to have to work out how to snare. May well be my diet this time next year. A proper starving evolotionary hunter gatherer. Good for genetic expression apparently.
Chrisdavisjr
Level 7 Valued Member
@ali I agree that using inconclusive and scientifically dubious information as a tactic to frighten people into making what should be a personal ethical choice is distasteful and, ultimately, probably more harmful to the animal rights movement than presenting the facts and allowing people to make their own informed decisions.
Sometimes you've got to wonder whether or not these people actually love animals or just hate humans.
I find that if you'd like people to come over to your way of thinking, it's probably better if you're not frothing at the mouth and telling people at Taco Bell to 'enjoy their bowel cancer,'. Not cool.
As Bing Crosby used to sing, "You've gotta accentuate the positive,".
Sometimes you've got to wonder whether or not these people actually love animals or just hate humans.
I find that if you'd like people to come over to your way of thinking, it's probably better if you're not frothing at the mouth and telling people at Taco Bell to 'enjoy their bowel cancer,'. Not cool.
As Bing Crosby used to sing, "You've gotta accentuate the positive,".
North Coast Miller
Level 9 Valued Member
This too is where I'm currently at from a nutritional standpoint. Meat is a powerful supplement, fat is a condiment.
I am leaning vegan (and have in the past) as I see it being the least bad option going forward on a planet that cannot sustain its current trajectory. I'm not looking forward to lab-grown meat either, nor insects and vermiculture protein that will likely be a staple all too soon I fear...
The amount of unnatural pressures at work relative to food selection is impossible to suss out to a logical finish in most cases, suffice it to say its designed to make $, not to be healthful for ourselves or the environment.
Heading to the market yesterday, spiral cut ham was going for 1.29/lb, less per lb than broccoli or green peppers. Hmmm, how dat possible in a free market economy?
ali
Level 7 Valued Member
@Chrisdavisjr ....nicely put. You ought to be Head of Communications for veganism.
ali
Level 7 Valued Member
I share that view too. Fine with the insects, not so sure about lab food.
If vegan, can you eat insects?
Chrisdavisjr
Level 7 Valued Member
I would class insects as animals so, as far as I'm concerned, one who eats insects would not be a vegan by definition.
The idea of using insects as a protein source as an alternative to meat is something that's always baffled me and seems to play into the idea that dietary protein needs to be animal-derived to have nutritional value. Call me weird, but I'd be happier with a bowl of rice and beans (hypothetical 'locusts-have-devoured-the-entire-world's-grain-supplies-and-now-there's-nothing-to-eat-but-locusts' and similar situations notwithstanding).
North Coast Miller
Level 9 Valued Member
I do nutritional yeast, not really a plant or an animal but sort of both.
I believe its vegan approved, turns any soup soup into a protein powerhouse, especially split pea or lentil.
I have a recipe for whole grain bread that uses it as well, again turning it into a monster protein meal compared to the same foods without.
I believe its vegan approved, turns any soup soup into a protein powerhouse, especially split pea or lentil.
I have a recipe for whole grain bread that uses it as well, again turning it into a monster protein meal compared to the same foods without.
Chrisdavisjr
Level 7 Valued Member
That sounds excellent! Would you mind sharing the recipe here?
North Coast Miller
Level 9 Valued Member
As I make it, it isn't very good for sandwiches, but makes great toast. Is pretty crumbly. This could be improved by subbing out some of the whole wheat flour for something a little more refined or cutting back the amount of nooch. A sourdough culture would probably improve texture as well. I actually stopped making this so often as it is just too tasty slathered with butter or olive oil - a lot of butter or olive oil.
Power bread:
dry yeast pack
3Tbsp olive oil
1.5 tsp sea salt
3 cups whole wheat flour
1 cup nutritional yeast
1 1/8 cup water
Proof the yeast for 15 minutes, spoon remaining ingredients together, let rest 45 minutes
knead for 15 minutes, let rise for 1 hour at 80-90°
knead for 2 minutes, let rise in pan until it doubles in size (usually 30 minutes)
bake 35 minutes at 325°
126 grams protein/loaf, approx 10-12 grams/slice, 2 slices per serving
and here is the article I found that got me into experimenting with it:
http://article.sciencepublishinggroup.com/pdf/10.11648.j.ijnfs.20140303.20.pdf
Jacques van der Merwe
Level 5 Valued Member
Thanks @Chrisdavisjr for bumping this thread!
I've been strictly off meat going on for 18+ months now and I feel much better physiologically. As Chris mentioned, I definitely recover faster and have more energy, but this can also be because I'm also eating a much cleaner diet. I try and eat a WFPB (whole food plant based) diet as much as I can, which right now is around 90% of the time. Some dairy/cheese creeps in when I'm eating out or invited to dinner. This coming year however, I'm going pure 100% WFPB and dropping all animal products. I wouldn't call myself a vegan, as I wear leather and eat honey.
Recently I have started augmenting my protein intake with a mixed vegan plant protein powder, but this is purely for experimentation. I want to see if taking it has greater muscle benefit (growth, recovery, etc.) than what I'm generally used to with my diet. Other than that, I eat when I'm hungry and try and follow something called the Daily Dozen which is a recommendation of which food groups to eat on a daily basis with approximate portion sizes. This does a lot of the "thinking" for me and is relative quick and easy to whip up.
My "saving grace" in the kitchen is my rice maker. I use that for most of my cooking which is to say that I steam cook pretty much all my food. Rice, beans, grains and veg. Occasionally I bake/roast veg and chickpeas/garbonzo-beans. Soups and stews are also a mainstay.
I've been strictly off meat going on for 18+ months now and I feel much better physiologically. As Chris mentioned, I definitely recover faster and have more energy, but this can also be because I'm also eating a much cleaner diet. I try and eat a WFPB (whole food plant based) diet as much as I can, which right now is around 90% of the time. Some dairy/cheese creeps in when I'm eating out or invited to dinner. This coming year however, I'm going pure 100% WFPB and dropping all animal products. I wouldn't call myself a vegan, as I wear leather and eat honey.
Recently I have started augmenting my protein intake with a mixed vegan plant protein powder, but this is purely for experimentation. I want to see if taking it has greater muscle benefit (growth, recovery, etc.) than what I'm generally used to with my diet. Other than that, I eat when I'm hungry and try and follow something called the Daily Dozen which is a recommendation of which food groups to eat on a daily basis with approximate portion sizes. This does a lot of the "thinking" for me and is relative quick and easy to whip up.
My "saving grace" in the kitchen is my rice maker. I use that for most of my cooking which is to say that I steam cook pretty much all my food. Rice, beans, grains and veg. Occasionally I bake/roast veg and chickpeas/garbonzo-beans. Soups and stews are also a mainstay.
ali
Level 7 Valued Member
All UK vegans......you probably know this already but Greggs have launched a vegan sausage roll today.
To non UK forum members, Greggs is a fast food high street chain known for its sausage rolls, pies, pastries and doughnuts. Whole foods it isn't.
Greggs features on every high street in Scotland, well almost every street and 'up North'. Not sure of their spread in other parts of the UK and they are frequently mocked for being unhealthy and the butt of many jokes about the level of obesity.
This launch has prompted many comments and the response of Greggs has been one of funny ironic self-deprecating asides that is welcomed in the world of food nonsense. Might just buy one to celebrate some good humour.
To non UK forum members, Greggs is a fast food high street chain known for its sausage rolls, pies, pastries and doughnuts. Whole foods it isn't.
Greggs features on every high street in Scotland, well almost every street and 'up North'. Not sure of their spread in other parts of the UK and they are frequently mocked for being unhealthy and the butt of many jokes about the level of obesity.
This launch has prompted many comments and the response of Greggs has been one of funny ironic self-deprecating asides that is welcomed in the world of food nonsense. Might just buy one to celebrate some good humour.
Chrisdavisjr
Level 7 Valued Member
Somehow that had completely slipped under my radar. I might have to try one.
With the growth of the vegan movement over the last year - we've seen pizza chains providing non-dairy cheese alternatives, supermarkets having their own vegan aisles and now even Gregg's, the UK's premier provider of beige food, is getting in on the action - it's getting easier and easier to eat an unhealthy vegan diet.
Whoever you are and however you eat, don't forget to eat your vegetables.
vegpedlr
Level 6 Valued Member
Disagree strongly. Poor wheat, so maligned, so unfair. Like potatoes, it built great civilizations, now gets no respect.
But refined FLOUR, is a problem for many people, as are refined sugars. Add to that refined oils and fats as things to eliminate for best results. Get your macros from whole, unrefined, fiber intact foods.
Thanks for reviving this thread. I was thinking of starting a veg*n support thread, but we can use this.
Can I make a request to forgo discussion of activist behavior? It’s not relevant to this forum. It’s a classic example of shooting the messenger instead of listening to the message. It’s so tedious when people project their negative views of activists on me just because I share their views.
Chrisdavisjr
Level 7 Valued Member
I hear you. Fortunately, I've not personally experienced that very often and most people are either understanding and encouraging or they don't really care how I choose to eat/live or whatever.
I'd rather leave the conversation as open as possible while remaining on topic. Much as I'm more interested in exploring the nutritional side of things, I feel it's beneficial to allow people to express their opinions and to explore their ideas provided that they articulate their sentiments without resorting to personal attacks.
If any unpleasantness should arise, please ensure that it is reported to a moderator (or should that be the moderator? Is it just you, @Steve Freides?). We can always start a vegans/vegetarians/veggie-curious only PM conversation if you'd like to avoid any potential arguments or unwelcome debates, which I can totally appreciate.
Michael Scott
Level 7 Valued Member
This has been quite the interesting thread. Thank you all for your input.
Other people can moderate, but in practice, it's almost always me.
The Report button is useful and I appreciate being notified.
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