all posts post new thread

Kettlebell VWC With Dubbells?

Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)

_KpaM_

Level 1 Valued Member
Hey Comrades, i've been reading VWC lately and I think its a pretty good method, but I have one big problem: I don't have kettlebells. I just got dumbbells and one barbell, and at this mement I can't buy KB. I would like to know if it was posible to do VWC doing One-Arm DB Snatches and still get results. Thanks!
 
Welcome to the forum. You can do Kettlebell style snatches with a dumbbell, but you are missing the punch through portion that adds to the snatches effectiveness (as KJ mentions when he explains why he found the swing limiting for this protocol). Not sure how to get around that.
 
Plus the dumbbell snatch is super awkward in the hardstyle.
 
Welcome to the forum. You can do Kettlebell style snatches with a dumbbell, but you are missing the punch through portion that adds to the snatches effectiveness (as KJ mentions when he explains why he found the swing limiting for this protocol). Not sure how to get around that.
So, what do you think would be better, to do this "extended" swing or to do a normal DB snatch from the flooor/hanging?
 
I think the best would be to get a kettlebell when you can get one.

I wouldn't swing a DB for any length of time as I found it awkward and it doesn't float like a bell does.

I don't think snatching from the floor is an option as I would imagine each snatch would take longer to execute. I never did the hanging version, so I have no comment.

Maybe others have ideas, but right now my advice would be to try a different conditioning program designed for a DB or wait until you get a bell.

Can I ask what your experience is with either the DB or Kettlebell snatch is?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You can replace it with Viking Push Press. I haven't done it with dumbbell but fast speed push press could do the job. If the heart rate elevates enough, then it's working.
 
Dumbbell swings and snatches are similar, but different from the kettlebell swings and snatches. In my opinion, they are designed for heavy doubles/triples (think unilateral Olympics weightlifting). As for higher rep ballistic drills, you can't simply beat kettlebells.
 
I think the best would be to get a kettlebell when you can get one.

I wouldn't swing a DB for any length of time as I found it awkward and it doesn't float like a bell does.

I don't think snatching from the floor is an option as I would imagine each snatch would take longer to execute. I never did the hanging version, so I have no comment.

Maybe others have ideas, but right now my advice would be to try a different conditioning program designed for a DB or wait until you get a bell.

Can I ask what your experience is with either the DB or Kettlebell snatch is?

Check out some examples of various old-school dumbbell lifts HERE (YouTube Video Playlist)
 
You can replace it with Viking Push Press. I haven't done it with dumbbell but fast speed push press could do the job. If the heart rate elevates enough, then it's working.
I'm not sure you can. You need to be able to fixate and lock out to control cadence. Every VPP I have seen (and let's be honest, on Youtube there is a a slight chance i haven't seen a proper one lol) doesn't lockout. I admit I don't have any direct experience with it yet.

I have read VWC twice (I like to read 3 times before starting) and it seems like the snatch is it. My experience with the DB Snatch is that it will be too slow and the VPP might be too fast.

I also could be completely wrong.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Respectfully, VWC was/is very specific on certain points: the hardstyle kettlebell snatch was selected as the apparatus and the exercise of choice, and from this a very specific cadence needs to be determined and matched with consistency in your training.

We can try to replace X with Y or any number of variations, but we will then have to accept that we are no longer doing VWC.
 
Dumbbell swings and snatches are similar, but different from the kettlebell swings and snatches. In my opinion, they are designed for heavy doubles/triples (think unilateral Olympics weightlifting). As for higher rep ballistic drills, you can't simply beat kettlebells.
Agreed. Dumbbell Snatches and Clean and Presses are fantastic exercises. I just couldn't see doing them high rep. It was those exercises that led me to kettlebells.
 
I've just recently ended the 40-day challenge by Dan John, and I used the DB snatch for the explosive fullbody movement (1x30,10 left - 10 right - 5 left -5 right) and at the end of the set my HR was pretty high. I'm pretty new to S&C training (started 3 months ago), and now I'm going to start a routine form the book "Deadlift Dynamite", but I also want some conditioning and thats why I was thinking to combine it with VWC.

If you don't recommend me VWC until I get a KB, which other programs are great for conditioning?
 
Hmm. I have irresponsible advice and responsible advice. The irresponsible advice is: VWC training sessions are relatively long periods of high intensity intervals with minimal rest. You could still do something like that with dumbbells, for instance, do a bunch of snatches for 15 seconds and then rest for 15 seconds, for 20 minutes or more. It could produce a similar effect to VWC, but it certainly wouldn't be the same thing.

The responsible advice is a little more involved. I should point out that ballistic exercises with dumbbells and barbells are not as "fatigue friendly" as kettlebells. That is, the downswing of a KB swing, clean, or snatch, sets you up for the next rep. Not so with DB or BB ballistics, where you have to reset from the ground for each rep. This opens you up to much bigger technical errors, and injury, since it can be difficult to set up consistently while fatigued. This issue becomes dramatically more important in someone with less than a couple years of moving well under load (which is a category that you will belong to for a while). In your case, I would find a conditioning program that does a better job of avoiding fatigue. To be clear, I would not advise you, under any circumstances, to engage in a program that has you generating a lot of force in a fatigued state. Not until you are a very competent mover, which usually takes a while (often years).

If I were to design a basic conditioning program for you, based on the DB snatch, it would be something like:
  • Set a timer for 20 minutes
  • Every minute, do 3 snatches, and recover for the rest of the minute (switch arms every minute). Pick a weight that allows you to be fresh and recovered by the time you start each set. You shouldn't be gassed or exhausted by the end of the 20 minutes
  • Do this 3-6 times a week (depending on what else you're doing and how much you can recover from) and make it the last part of your workout, unless you plan on doing some long, slow aerobic work, in which case the long slow aerobic work should be last
  • Every week, add 2-4 minutes to the total time of the session
  • Once you work up to 30-40 minute sessions, restart at 20 minutes, with the same weight, but do 4 reps instead of 3. Repeat the process.
  • Go through this entire process again with 5 reps. Once you're at 30-40 minute sessions, doing 5 snatches at the top of each minute, then increase the weight y 5-10 pounds and start over at 20 minutes and 3 reps.
Obviously, this a very broad program, and exactly how you implement it depends on how strong you are, how much you can recover from, and what else you're doing. But the idea is to stay relatively fresh for each set (which allows you to practice moving well), while you create a period of prolonged, increased oxygen uptake. There are way better program designers out there than me, though, and I thought of this in about 10 minutes, so it might not be the best option ;). Think of it more as an example of how to use the DB snatch as a conditioning tool for a novice.
 
I'm not sure you can. You need to be able to fixate and lock out to control cadence. Every VPP I have seen (and let's be honest, on Youtube there is a a slight chance i haven't seen a proper one lol) doesn't lockout. I admit I don't have any direct experience with it yet.

I have read VWC twice (I like to read 3 times before starting) and it seems like the snatch is it. My experience with the DB Snatch is that it will be too slow and the VPP might be too fast.

I also could be completely wrong.
I have been tested (as part of certification) many years ago to do 15 sec on/off cadence with Viking Push Press. This has its place when you have student who can't snatch for some reason or another.
Dumbell may not be the best tool, however could be better than snatching with dumbell.
 
I have been tested (as part of certification) many years ago to do 15 sec on/off cadence with Viking Push Press. This has its place when you have student who can't snatch for some reason or another.
Dumbell may not be the best tool, however could be better than snatching with dumbell.
Was unaware of that. Thanks.
 
Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)
Back
Top Bottom