offwidth
Level 10 Valued Member
I know... I have a Colnago C60 ... Fully Campagnolo Record equipped...
Kettlebell Way to tell when power drops in swings; any guesses?
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Groove Greaser
Level 4 Valued Member
This was my main thought too. I skimmed over the page trying to see if the app could track HR data as well. Maybe superimpose the two, etc. No dice yet.
We are getting into things that either don't belong in this thread or don't belong on this forum. The last several posts have been removed. Please stick to the topic.
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Oscar
Level 7 Valued Member
I think the PUSH device is a good tool for the SFG Chief to use. He is a professional, he is a researcher, he designs programs and he has been swinging kbs for 15 years. Hopefully he might come up with some useful research from using it, like doing 12 sets of 8 swings, instead of 10x10. It's a very cheap tool for those purposes.
I won't be buying one for personal use. It's not worth it for me. I just bought a HR monitor just to find out I was doing my sets of swings just below the MAF threshold before owning it. It's a lot of fun using it though.
I won't be buying one for personal use. It's not worth it for me. I just bought a HR monitor just to find out I was doing my sets of swings just below the MAF threshold before owning it. It's a lot of fun using it though.
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KIWI5
Level 4 Valued Member
I love the video of the 'StrongFirst Lair"...deep in the mountains, where all people have to do is train, eat and sleep. Nothing else matters....Valhalla. Of course, back in the 'real world'- I still can't justify the cost. When it comes to 'product launches', at least on this forum (and with everyone I have spoken to regarding the "Push") I believe SF could have done a better job. The 'take it or leave it' message from senior SF folk - on this thread at least- seems to me to be a bit too defensive. Once again- I commend SF for the initiative. But clearly, this product is not being promoted 'for the masses'. It is a specialized tool- but with better marketing, more 'peasants' might have bought into the theory. This is the double edged sword of having your own forum- you get the positive and the negative.
ali
Level 7 Valued Member
Very interesting parallel with using a hr monitor and how that ties in with @Brett Jones article with reps/sets/rest/form. The Push thing puts numbers to a qualitative summary of all the other variables, it seems.
When I first used a hr monitor it revealed that I was pushing things a little too much and I dropped the reps to 8 for sets of 10, stayed there for a bit and assessed my maf and how I felt and added a rep as I rolled along. It helped me recognise how my form too was affected by ramping up my effort, particularly in the latter sets.
I can see how this Push thing would streamline a similar process and combining the numbers to the feel of the session to get a richer assessment. And, it seems anyway, that part of that assessment too is judging how it feels to how it looks so there is human interaction with the data, it isn't just a number.
You could set up an alarm system, for swings anyway, by using a laser beam at a predetermined height of parallel arm/fist height. Everytime the beam was broken it would beep, if it didn't and you didn't reach the line then power would have dropped and end the set......a cheaper cack-handed option that it is but tie that in with perceived effort and you are getting immediate feedback. One of those builders levels would do it, or go the full Tom Cruise mission impossible I suppose.
As @Oscar said above, a very useful device for fine-tuning program design and research. However, cost. I'd buy a bigger bell.....
When I first used a hr monitor it revealed that I was pushing things a little too much and I dropped the reps to 8 for sets of 10, stayed there for a bit and assessed my maf and how I felt and added a rep as I rolled along. It helped me recognise how my form too was affected by ramping up my effort, particularly in the latter sets.
I can see how this Push thing would streamline a similar process and combining the numbers to the feel of the session to get a richer assessment. And, it seems anyway, that part of that assessment too is judging how it feels to how it looks so there is human interaction with the data, it isn't just a number.
You could set up an alarm system, for swings anyway, by using a laser beam at a predetermined height of parallel arm/fist height. Everytime the beam was broken it would beep, if it didn't and you didn't reach the line then power would have dropped and end the set......a cheaper cack-handed option that it is but tie that in with perceived effort and you are getting immediate feedback. One of those builders levels would do it, or go the full Tom Cruise mission impossible I suppose.
As @Oscar said above, a very useful device for fine-tuning program design and research. However, cost. I'd buy a bigger bell.....
Matts
Level 3 Valued Member
since ballistics "play by different rules..." something like this could be very useful to a lot of people. all swings- baseball, golf, tennis, require a lot of skill to focus the peak acceleration at the optimum time. For people who lack that natural talent (as developed by years of practice..haha), a device like this could give immediate feedback and speed the process up a lot.
Always confuses when people pronounce something way to expensive for them...like they can't mow 5 nice lawns or pick up an odd shift or two carting stuff around for a contractor, or even babysit or something. Maybe some hard physical labor would upset their workout routine? Pavel turned capitalist...others can, too!
May not be everybody's cup of tea, and people with young kids, etc. are always strapped, but no reason to rag it sight unseen and totally untried.
Always confuses when people pronounce something way to expensive for them...like they can't mow 5 nice lawns or pick up an odd shift or two carting stuff around for a contractor, or even babysit or something. Maybe some hard physical labor would upset their workout routine? Pavel turned capitalist...others can, too!
May not be everybody's cup of tea, and people with young kids, etc. are always strapped, but no reason to rag it sight unseen and totally untried.
pgomez
Level 6 Valued Member
I'm curious about the answer to this question too. I assume the answer is that it is not just height we want, but speed to reach that height (Power = Work / Time); while simultaneously taking care that good form is maintained and the rep "feels strong."
Also, I must say, I personally don't understand the seeming negative sentiment about the PUSH device. It sounds neat to me. If I had the spare cash, I'd buy it. But, because I don't (at the moment), I think I will do some experimenting this week with different rep variations on my KB swings (ie: sets of 7 or 8) to see if I can get a little more power and quicker recovery.
A lot of people have been using kettlebells and getting stronger long before the PUSH device. So, it's not like it is necessary. But, I can see where it could be helpful for anyone, not just elite athletes.
Matts
Level 3 Valued Member
I can make different sized bells come up to different heights by making the focus of peak energy occur at earlier or later in the swing. A high swing could mean a very powerful, proper swing, or a terrible one with a late trigger and/or upper body assistance. With heavier bells, the peak force with hips comes a little later than with lighter bells, that's a factor as well.
With ballistics and a lot of gymnastics, being able to have max acceleration occur at the optimum instant is a huge plus. How to tell which produces the most power? Might be handy to have a gadget that measures acceleration and peak forces...
With ballistics and a lot of gymnastics, being able to have max acceleration occur at the optimum instant is a huge plus. How to tell which produces the most power? Might be handy to have a gadget that measures acceleration and peak forces...
Groove Greaser
Level 4 Valued Member
I've been thinking about this too. I think that kettlebells have a tendency to attract thrifty people who like the cost/benefit ratio of kettlebells. This device, while undoubtedly useful, doesn't seem to be in the same league at all on this front. Kettlebells are reasonably cheap and can have a big impact of personal physical preparedness. This device is reasonably expensive (meaning I don't think they're gouging) and will probably have a much smaller impact on personal physical preparedness.
Personally, if I already owned a barbell and plates (and were a little stronger) I'd love to pick one up to experiment with. But this is endgame material and I'm just at the beginning!
Adam R Mundorf
Level 6 Valued Member
@Groove Greaser
I agree with everything you wrote.
For me it's the less variables in training the better. I prefer just to pick up the bell and go find a pull up bar. No phone, no heart rate monitors and no music. No distractions.
I agree with everything you wrote.
For me it's the less variables in training the better. I prefer just to pick up the bell and go find a pull up bar. No phone, no heart rate monitors and no music. No distractions.
Oscar
Level 7 Valued Member
You can have two swings that are equally high, therefore they required the same energy. However, if the thrust that drove the KB lasted 0.25 seconds, instead of 0.5 seconds, the peak power was twice as high in the first case. The average power is just the same: the energy required to raise the bell to a given height divided by the swing duration (which doesnt vary).
Antti
Level 10 Valued Member
Does the PUSH band reveal this difference? Is the difference in form required for the double the length of the push unnoticeable for the practisisioner?
Good question, @Antti , I'd like to know this, too.
Seems funny that so many forum people love to talk about the theory of the power in a swing, but so much negativity to the idea of actually measuring it...
I think if nothing else, it would be fun for bragging rights of who has the most powerful swing.
(No, I haven't bought one... yet.
I am definitely NOT among the data averse.)
North Coast Miller
Level 9 Valued Member
It would be fun to have just to play around with. I envision it not so much for telling when my speed is dropping, but to pin my speed to a desired outcome. It might even be most useful to act as a governor once you have the math sorted out, and it would seem to be somewhat individual at any given point in time.
--"Maximum power is generated at one-third of maximum shortening velocity."--
It would also come in handy for keeping eccentrics honest if your goal was to slow them down. I don't know how sophisticated this widget is - could it be used as a variable metronome for concentric and eccentric?
--"Maximum power is generated at one-third of maximum shortening velocity."--
It would also come in handy for keeping eccentrics honest if your goal was to slow them down. I don't know how sophisticated this widget is - could it be used as a variable metronome for concentric and eccentric?
pgomez
Level 6 Valued Member
Yes, and with great power comes great responsibility. (Sorry ... I just couldn't resist.)
Oscar
Level 7 Valued Member
Yes, it does. If I´m not mistaken, the PUSH device is an accelerometer, so that´s exactly what it measures. I dont know if you can see the measurement in real time, like you can with a HR monitor, in order to make decisions during the training.
I think we can all feel when power drops. There was a thread a while back where we all agreed that we could keep crispness up to the 7th or 8th swing in a set. Most of us considered the last two or three reps in a set of 10 to be less powerful.
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