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Barbell Weight increases week to week

Gdub17

Level 1 Valued Member
Just started my second week of powerlifting. I’m now at 205 on conventional deadlifts using a 5x5 set/rep scheme I started really light(185) to work on form. I made the jump to 205 this week and am still dialing in my conventional deadlift form using double overhand grip. 205 was super easy for 5x5. I think I should have jumped to 225 for the same set/rep scheme but not sure. Keep in mind I’m still working on form as well. What do you guys think I should jump to next week? We’re training each main lift just once a week and my double overhand grip is getting stronger. Thanks for sharing your thoughts
 

Anna C

Level 9 Valued Member
Team Leader Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
Sinister
Sounds like you are working your way up to a good working weight, so you could move on up to 225 if you want, but 5x5 is a lot of volume, so jumps in weight will really add up to a big difference in the tonnage (total weight lifted) for the session so conservative increases are probably the best approach. Or perhaps some of your sets at the heavier weight. Depends what the programming is and where you are in it as to what might be advisable there.

Also welcome to link a video for a form check.
 

Wyanokie

Level 3 Valued Member
Just started my second week of powerlifting. I’m now at 205 on conventional deadlifts using a 5x5 set/rep scheme I started really light(185) to work on form. I made the jump to 205 this week and am still dialing in my conventional deadlift form using double overhand grip. 205 was super easy for 5x5. I think I should have jumped to 225 for the same set/rep scheme but not sure. Keep in mind I’m still working on form as well. What do you guys think I should jump to next week? We’re training each main lift just once a week and my double overhand grip is getting stronger. Thanks for sharing your thoughts

Congrats on beginning your journey and best of luck with it! Here's my advice on this:

1) Don't rush to get stuck. Start with a reasonable weight and go up in small increments. See #2 for the reason why.

2) Consider the StrongFirst paradigm that "strength is a skill", and interface it with the concept of "form creep" (I believe Mark Rippetoe wrote an article on this recently). In short, every time you add weight to the bar, your form is offset slightly and you have to consciously retrain some small subtleties of the lift (the skill). If you don't, you could throw off your form and it could lead to injury. The deadlift IS a technical lift, and is dangerous with heavy weight if not done with precision on EVERY SINGLE REP. Considering the bolded above, don't work on your form while increasing weight, nail the weight with proper form then go up.

In short, don't worry about weight, worry about technique.

How's your technique with 205? Post a video here with 205 and if it feels easy and looks technically correct, maybe add 10 lb next week, take a video, re-evaluate, etc.

3) Another reason not to rush: you're still getting stronger lifting moderate weight with the deadlift. Your muscles and connective tissue are still being loaded. I don't remember if it was Dan John or Pavel who said that heavy deadlifts take more out of you than they give, but moderate-weight deadlifts are like stealing strength (I paraphrased that a bit). Take your time. If you are deadlifting 205 right now and you only add a measly 10 lb per month for the next year, at this point next year you'll be deadlifting 325. Two years from now that'll be 445-beyond moderate weight, for sure.

Keep up the great work, take a video of yourself DL'ing 205 and post it here, let's see it!
 

Boris Bachmann

Level 7 Valued Member
Wights - that takes me back.

So, this was at the end of the module and we were squaring off against Strahd in castle Ravenloft - he had traps in the room, among them a section of the floor with a spell of teleportation... Of course, as my fighter charged, he stepped on that and was instantly teleported NAKED into a room filled with wights... Man, still gives me nightmares.

 

Wyanokie

Level 3 Valued Member
Another thing: someone else with more programming experience should weigh in here, but at some point, should this lifter change to 3x5 with the deadlift and then ultimately 3x3 or 1x5 top set with two sets at a lower % max? I thought I read that 5x5 was too much volume for the DL after a certain point.
 

Anna C

Level 9 Valued Member
Team Leader Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
Sinister
Another thing: someone else with more programming experience should weigh in here, but at some point, should this lifter change to 3x5 with the deadlift and then ultimately 3x3 or 1x5 top set with two sets at a lower % max? I thought I read that 5x5 was too much volume for the DL after a certain point.
All depends on the context... what is the objective, what is the rest of the training, what is the progression, where is the weight relative to % 1RM, etc...
 

bluejeff

Level 6 Valued Member
Another reason not to rush: you're still getting stronger lifting moderate weight with the deadlift. Your muscles and connective tissue are still being loaded. I don't remember if it was Dan John or Pavel who said that heavy deadlifts take more out of you than they give, but moderate-weight deadlifts are like stealing strength (I paraphrased that a bit). Take your time. If you are deadlifting 205 right now and you only add a measly 10 lb per month for the next year, at this point next year you'll be deadlifting 325. Two years from now that'll be 445-beyond moderate weight, for sure.
100%

There are variations on how to word this: the idea is to build strength, not test it. The closer you are to testing it, the more recovery demands you incure. I would rather do many reps over time of moderate weight than push really hard and then be wrecked.
 

Gdub17

Level 1 Valued Member
Lots of good information. Thanks guys. We deadlift again tomorrow. I will stay at 205 and perfect my form. Thanks
 

Gdub17

Level 1 Valued Member
Should I just keep on the linear progression making small jumps using a 5x5 rep scheme on deadlifts and squats? At what point or weight or how often should I take a deload
week as I progressively get stronger? I’m currently at 205 and will do that again Friday. If my form is really good I want to start making poundage jumps. How much should I jump per week and at what point is the 5x5 set/rep scheme too much volume. I really like the 5x5 protocol but how long can I milk it and not cook my cns? When I get to say 250 pounds with perfect form can I continue with the 5x5 set/rep scheme? Keep in mind we only train the conventional deadlift once a week. We also only bench and squat once a week using the same set/rep format. We also do accessories sprinkled throughout the week for 3-5 sets of 6-10 reps depend upon energy levels and recuperation. We never take any set to failure on anything as well. Thanks
 
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lais817

Level 5 Valued Member
I assume since you keep saying "We", that you are training with others? Is one of them a coach? Is there someone doing your programming?

As for weight increases:
In Reload, Pavel and Fabio recommend 2% weight increases per week for new lifters. In PTTP, Pavel recommends 5-10 pounds.

Even if you aren't going to follow the program, pick up a copy of Pavel's "Power to the People (PTTP)". Heaps of good info in there for someone just getting into lifting.
 

Anna C

Level 9 Valued Member
Team Leader Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
Sinister
Based on your information in this thread: Barbell - Powerlifting noob?

Working with your son, you seem to have arbitrarily picked this scheme of 5x5 deadlifts once a week, 5x5 squats once a week, and 5x5 bench once a week, with accessories on each of these days....

I would suggest that you should find a program, and follow it. What you're currently doing is really not optimal for progress, especially as you move up in weight!
  • If focusing on one lift one day a week each (squat one day, bench one day, etc...), 5/3/1 might be a good choice.
  • If you're open to doing more than one lift each day, (squat, bench, deadlift each of the 3 lifting days in a week), Starting Strength might be a good choice. Basically 3 sets of 5, and a linear progression.
  • If you really like 5x5, Greyskull LP or StrongLifts 5x5 might be a good choice; both are similar to Starting Strength with more volume (many people say too much volume, once you start moving up in weight) because you're doing 5x5 on multiple lifts each lifting day.
  • If you want to focus on two lifts and progress, PTTP might be a good choice.
  • Reload is also a good powerlifting focused program, but a bit more complex.
Each program has some nuance to it as far as progression, so the advice on how fast to advance the weight should be within these program details.
 

Kenny Croxdale

Level 7 Valued Member
Should I just keep on the linear progression making small jumps using a 5x5 rep scheme on deadlifts and squats?
The General Adaptation Syndrome

This applies to trainng, diet, etc.

This principle is the foudation on which progress is built or failure occurs.

It is broken down into three stages.

1) Alarm

When types of stress are placed on the body, it reacts to over come that stress.

This leads to the second stage...

2) Resistance

In this stage, the body compenstates to the stress becoming stronger.

3) Exhaustion

In this stage with Resistance Training, the body runs out of recovery reserves.

Once recovery reserves are depleted, continuing with hard training session eventually leads to OverTraining.

Once OverTraining occurs, progress stop. You end up losing the gain that you made.

Novice Lifter Adaptation

Novice Lifters have a longer adaptation time to training. They are able to maintain the same training program for a longer period of time comparted to Intermediate and Advance Lifters

Thus, a Novice Lifter can maintain the same program for around 8-12 week before they need to change it.

A Common Sense Approach

When you stop making gains, you need to change your Training Program.

DeLoads and ReLoads

This approach is often to drop the poundage down for one or two workout and then ramp it back up.

This approach is a short term fix that in the long run is not effective.

Periodiation Training

A well written and excuted Periodization Training Cycle is a more effective approach.

It starts off with performing and execise with a light easy load.

Then progressively increasing the load/intensity each week.

In the final week of the Periodization Training Cycle, an exercise is pushed near or to the limit.

Doing so elicits...

OverReaching

This is the Acute, early state of OverTraining.

When this occurs, a New Periodization Training Cycle needs to be implemented.

The New Training Cycle starts off with light, easy load with progressive weekly increases in load/intenisty; with the final week being a being push to failre or close top it.

Once this is accomplished, start over with a New Training Program.

Active Recovery

Starting over with a New Training Program with a light, easy load ensure the muscle recovery and become stronger.

When I get to say 250 pounds with perfect form can I continue with the 5x5 set/rep scheme?

Technique

Perfecting Technique (form) does not happen with Sets of 5 X 5.

The 5 X 5 Training is effective at increasing Maxium Strength. However, it come at the expense of Developing Poor Technique.

The issue is...

Muscle Fatigue

Research shows that with each Repetition Performed...

Muscle Fatigue occurs; meaning Technique is altered.

The shift in Technique means it intially become a different exercise.

Morning-Squat Example

The effects of quadriceps fatigue on the technique of lifting
The effects of quadriceps fatigue on the technique of lifting - PubMed

"A biomechanical analysis was performed of lifting before and after fatiguing the quadriceps muscles.
...Three variables changed significantly with fatigue: trunk angular velocity, which increased, and knee moment integral and hip angles, which both decreased. These changes are all consistent with a change from more of a squat toward a stoop technique."

Once Muscle Fatigue occurs with a Deadlift, Bench Press, etc., Technique falls apart. You reinforce Poor Technique.

Solution

Technique is optimally developed when...

1) The Exercise is trained at the beginning of a workout. when the muscles are fresh.

2) When one or maybe two Repetiton are performed.

3) Once Muscle Fatigue set in and Poor Techinique occurs, Stop. Continuing on in a fatigued state lead to Poor Technique.

Cluster Sets

Cluster Sets in a exercise are when you take a short rest period between let's say each Repetition. Doing so, allows the muscle to recover.

The Muscle Recovery ensure better Tenchique in the Exercise. as well as more strength in it.

Appplying This to 5 X 5

1) Peform one Repetition, then take a slight rest before performing the second, third, etc..

The rest period should be 15 seconds to 60 seconds betweem each Repetition.

The Benefit

1) It ensure better Technique Development.

2) The amount of weight in that particular Exercise will increase with the slight rest between Repetitions.
 

Kenny Croxdale

Level 7 Valued Member
heavy deadlifts take more out of you than they give,
Louie Simmons, Westside Barbell

Simmons stated that, "The Deadlift take more than it give back."

Dr Tom McLaughlin, Former Powerlifter/PhD Exercise Biomechanics

As McLaughlin stated in one of his Deadlift Training Biomechanics research articles, "The Back is quickly and easily OverTraining."

Powerlifters Limited Deadlift Training

Most Powerlifter limit Deadlift Training to once a week due to how long it take the Back to recover.

Some Powerlifter limit Heavy Deadlift Training Session to once every two weeks for that reason.

Technique Training

This was addressed in the previous post

Developing Strength In A Movement Like The Deadlift

Dr Tom McLaughlin's research came out at appoximately The Westside Powerlifting Training Method. It came to the same conclusion;
Auxiliary Exercises ensure Strength was developed in a Movement...

Simmons' Westside Training Method; Strength in the Powerlifts was developed with Auxiliary Exercise that are similar in nature to a lift are used to develop strength in it.

Deadlift Auxiliary Exercises

Good Mornings, Stiff Leg Deadlifts, Hip/Back Extensions, Romanian Deadlifts. Kettlebell Swings, Olympic Pulls, etc.

Transfer Between Lifts: Increased Strength in Untrained Exercises

This research that just came out support McLaughlin's and Simmons' use of Auxiliary Exercise to increase strength on other smilar movements.

...""...8 weeks of barbell step ups increased SQ strength, and vice versa, ..."

"...Multi Joint exercises were a more efficient option for increasing maximal strength..."


"...They compared the effect of kettlebell swings to explosive DL (maximal effort with 30% of 1RM) in resistance-trained men...
After 4 weeks, both groups significantly increased their maximal DL strength..." Source: National Strength and Conditioning Research Journal, June 2022
 

silveraw

Level 7 Valued Member
Wights - that takes me back.

So, this was at the end of the module and we were squaring off against Strahd in castle Ravenloft - he had traps in the room, among them a section of the floor with a spell of teleportation... Of course, as my fighter charged, he stepped on that and was instantly teleported NAKED into a room filled with wights... Man, still gives me nightmares.

Don’t leave me hanging.
Did you make it out?
 

Boris Bachmann

Level 7 Valued Member
Don’t leave me hanging.
Did you make it out?
The Dungeon Master cut me a HUGE break and I was able to evade the wights and streak my way back to the main chamber, picking up a sword on the way. I arrived just in time to see the only other surviving member of our party get killed by Strahd. "Sweet Ums" (the name of my fighter) fought valiantly, but in the end it was a TPK (total party kill). I have to assume that Strahd was free to spread his evil reign across the realm.
 

silveraw

Level 7 Valued Member
The Dungeon Master cut me a HUGE break and I was able to evade the wights and streak my way back to the main chamber, picking up a sword on the way. I arrived just in time to see the only other surviving member of our party get killed by Strahd. "Sweet Ums" (the name of my fighter) fought valiantly, but in the end it was a TPK (total party kill). I have to assume that Strahd was free to spread his evil reign across the realm.
Honestly sounds like a pretty awesome ending. I like the dm stringing you along for dramatic effect.
 

Gdub17

Level 1 Valued Member
Me and my son just finished supper after a good deadlift session earlier. I stayed at 205 for 5x5 pulling conventional still using double overhand grip. You guys were right. I rally wanted to make a jump to 225 but my form with 205 improved dramatically this session. I felt locked in snd tight with no pain anywhere whatsoever. I focused on chest up and pulling the bar along my quads. I think next week I’ll make a sensible jump to 215 for 5x5 thanks for steering me in the correct direction. My son commented my form was way better on every rep. I’m really happy with our session today and looking forward to getting stronger with even better technique next Friday
 

Kev

Level 6 Valued Member
Questions like this is why I liked Wendlers 531. I did 5x5 years ago with 8 week cycles and started to miss lifts that for all intents and purposes should have flown up. In fact I remember stalling a few times at weeks 5-6. On Wendler you basically have a theoretical training max that is always 90% of a true max and you train off of percentages of this 90% max. Then there’s the 10% resets anytime you don’t get your reps/weight. I loved that program as a barbell lifter and it really removed any and all guess work with “what should I aim for?” On the 3rd week of each cycle your top set would be 95% for a single+ at least (based off of that 90% training max) and if that single flies up the “+” designation means if you get that single just keep repping them in good form. 4th week is a deload and the next cycle goes ahead with 5lbs on you squat and deadlift max and 2.5lbs on your press and bench press. Forgive me if you have done Wendler or you didn’t like it. The Greyskull LP follows a similar approach without percentages. If you own a kindle Wendlers 531 is very cheap and if I can work out percentages anyone can as I can barely count. The Greyskull LP I think is harder to come by these days.
 

Bauer

Level 7 Valued Member
I haven't read all the responses but, here are my notes from listening to Fabio Zonin on the Strenght Connection podcast #90

Fabio Zonin at Strength Connection podcast #90
  • Taking more time to progress means longer lasting gains
  • Step cycles are powerful
  • Step programming idea: Start with an RPE of 8 and stay with the given intensity and volume until it drops below 6.5
  • Most gains come within two weeks – but next 2-4 weeks stabilize those gains
 
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