Barbell Weight increases week to week

[solarbear]

205 was super easy for 5x5.

Nice. Take the smallest jumps you can. There is no hurry. I am a big believer in going slow so that you build up all the support muscles and keep injuries to a minimum. I was always under pressure to get a bigger squat or bench for football so I didn't follow this advice and really feel this hurt my progress long term.

I'd aim for 5lb jumps each week or fortnight, depending on your age. In no time you will be at 315 then 405. (5lb jumps in 4 months you will be doing 5x5 with 315... you might be able to lift a lot more for a single in a comp, would expect 405ish.)

 

[guardian7]

I recommend the Power to the People program (PTTP) for novice barbell. It will show you exactly how to build up systematically for the long run to make the most of the enviable gains you can make now. It is also really easy to follow.

 

[lais817]

I recommend the Power to the People program (PTTP) for novice barbell. It will show you exactly how to build up systematically for the long run to make the most of the enviable gains you can make now. It is also really easy to follow.

I'll second this. My wife as been following it doing just deadlifts since June and made good progress and is enjoying it

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

Take the smallest jumps you can.

Not The Most Effective Approach​

Taking the smallest jumps is poundage in a Progressive Resistance Training Cylce isn't the most effective method.

1) Novice Lifters

Taking small increases in Resistance Loads is condusive to some extent for Novice Lifter.

a) Because they adapt slowly.

That means if they are following a well designed Periodization Training Cycle, a Novice Lift is is able to maintain progress for a long period of time. up to 12 Weeks.

If a Novice Lifter extend their Training Cycle beyond that period, it indicates they started out too light and are not pushing it as they should.

b) Secondly, since Novice Lifter have virtually no personal experience, they are learning as they go.

2) Advaced Lifter

a) Adaptation occurs quickly with this group.

For that reason, they need to have shorter Periodization Training Cycles; make changes approximately every 3 - 4 Week.

That mean their intial week of in a New Training Cycle is with something light and easy.

Each following week needs to be more agressive with larger increases in Resistance with the Exercise.

Pavel address this in his video on...

The Benefit of Jumps Between Kettlebell Sizes (3:30 minutes)




1) Descrete Sharp. Suddeny Changes

Your load are much more effective larger increase loads than very small load increasesa.

As per Pavel, you will never seen Russians using small "Washer Plates" to increase the load; it is only in America.

In a Barbell Exercise, the minimum increase should be 10 kg/22 ;bs. For Women, the minimum increase is 2.5 kg/5 lbs.

2) "Just Noticeable Difference"

The increase needs to be enough that there is a noticable difffence; which will elicit a positive Training Response; gains in strength.

Kilo Kettlebells

What is interesting is that Kilo Kettlebells load increases are 4 Kilo per Bell; 24. 28. 32 kg, etc. That right means right at a 9 lbs increase each time that you move up to the next size Kettlbells.

There is no hurry. I am a big believer in going slow so that you build up all the support muscles and keep injuries to a minimum.

Going Slow

Slow increase in loading are counter productive.

I was always under pressure to get a bigger squat or bench for football so I didn't follow this advice and really feel this hurt my progress long term.

Going To Fast

Increasing loading too quickly is also counterproductive.

I'd aim for 5lb jumps each week or fortnight,

5 lbs Jumps

The increase in loading is dependent on the Exercise.

it might work for for a smaller muscle in an Exercise, such as a Barbell Curl.

However, a 5 lb increase for Compound Exercises like a Squat, Deadlift or Bench Press is not enough.

It's time wasted/

As per Pavel, the minimum increase for a man in a Barbell Exercise need to be 10 kg/roughly 22 lbs.

In no time you will be at 315 then 405. (5lb jumps in 4 months you will be doing 5x5 with 315

The Issue With This Approach

1) The Periodization Training Cycle is too long.

A Novice Lifter needs to make changes to their Periodization Training Cycle approximately every 12 weeks.

2) As Pavel stated in the video, Lifters need to make Descrete Sharp. Suddeny Changes in the progressively loading in an Exercise to evoke the most effective Trainng Reponse; getting stronger.

 

[Adachi]

2) As Pavel stated in the video, Lifters need to make Descrete Sharp. Suddeny Changes in the progressively loading in an Exercise to evoke the most effective Trainng Reponse; getting stronger.

I've puzzled over the daily undulation method of waving the load, and have been thinking that a barbell cycle where there's a baseline weight and an increasing weight alternating on an AB day alternation might be a high-value proposition.

a hypothetical barbell cycle could alternate these loads from session to session 3 days a week...​

Reps/Sets​	Light Day​	Reps/Sets​	Heavy Day​
5/3​	65%​	5/3​	70%​
5/3​	65%​	5/3​	75%​
5/3​	65%​	5/3​	77.5%​
5/3​	65%​	3/3​	80%​
5/3​	65%​	3/3​	82.5%​
5/3​	65%​	3/3​	85%​
5/3​	65%​	3/3​	87.5%​
5/3​	65%​	1/3​	90%​
5/3​	65%​	1/2​	92.5%​
5/3​	65%​	1/1​	95%​

Test 1rm, and reset. this cycle would be ~6 weeks. ​

for my next barbell cycle, I'm wondering about trying to apply such a dynamic of seeking some amount of variability on a randomized basis versus something like this. maybe it's not the best idea relative to the nature of the implementation and what such a program would entail; to actually randomize the loading, throughout a barbell cycle. but, the above cycle is something that I am considering trying in light of information on the value of sharp variations in training loads.

 

[BJJ Shawn]

I've puzzled over the daily undulation method of waving the load, and have been thinking that a barbell cycle where there's a baseline weight and an increasing weight alternating on an AB day alternation might be a high-value proposition.

a hypothetical barbell cycle could alternate these loads from session to session 3 days a week...​

Reps/Sets​	Light Day​	Reps/Sets​	Heavy Day​
5/3​	65%​	5/3​	70%​
5/3​	65%​	5/3​	75%​
5/3​	65%​	5/3​	77.5%​
5/3​	65%​	3/3​	80%​
5/3​	65%​	3/3​	82.5%​
5/3​	65%​	3/3​	85%​
5/3​	65%​	3/3​	87.5%​
5/3​	65%​	1/3​	90%​
5/3​	65%​	1/2​	92.5%​
5/3​	65%​	1/1​	95%​

Test 1rm, and reset. this cycle would be ~6 weeks. ​

for my next barbell cycle, I'm wondering about trying to apply such a dynamic of seeking some amount of variability on a randomized basis versus something like this. maybe it's not the best idea relative to the nature of the implementation and what such a program would entail; to actually randomize the loading, throughout a barbell cycle. but, the above cycle is something that I am considering trying in light of information on the value of sharp variations in training loads.

This is essentially Reload with slightly different reps/sets. There are tests to do in the book to individualize the jumps on a per person and per lift basis, but once you have it set you have a light day and heavy day each week for each lift through the cycle ending in a 1RM all out test before starting over again.

 

[solarbear]

1) Novice Lifters

Taking small increases in Resistance Loads is condusive to some extent for Novice Lifter.

Yeah if he was working out at less than 150lb, I would 100% agree.

My point was specific to his situation and the weight he was quoting. He wants to jump up to 2 plate deadlift from a plate and a half. I'd suggest working through 185,195,205,215... at one step each week or each workout and it would take a month. Then when he went to 225 it would be easy and all his support muscles would thank him for it later. He could probably continue on like this with a 5-10lb increase each week till he gets to 275 or 315.

My experience running 5/3/1 for a decade + tells me it doesn't really matter what your working weight is, so long as it keeps increasing and you keep putting in the work. And that slow progress > fast progress over the long haul. I find when you make a 20-30lb jump all at once, you usually pay for it down the road somewhere with an injury or setback. I imagine he has already made his nice 20-30lb jump once or more and is getting to the phase where you have to put in slow steady.

BTW a 5lb increase each week is 250lb over a year! It might be better to make the jumps in 5lb increments than making a couple of 20.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

it doesn't really matter what your working weight is, so long as it keeps increasing and you keep putting in the work.

"Everything Works but Nothing Works Forever"

Regardless of the program or the Training Age (Novice-Intermediate-Advance Lifter) a plateau is reached and the increases stop.

That because the body adapts to the stimulus (The General Adaptation Syndrome).

Periodization Training

This is cyclical planned training over a certain number of weeks that progressively increase the loading. Then a New Training Cycle is begun that allows recovery. Recover is where gains in strength and hypertrophy occur.

Periodization Training works for athletes and everyone else.

With that said let me comment on...

DeLoads and ReLoads

A DeLoad and ReLoad isn't Periodizaton Training for one or two session isn't Periodization Training.

It's a short term fix that in the long is counterproductive.

I find when you make a 20-30lb jump all at once, you usually pay for it down the road somewhere with an injury or setback.

Something Is Wrong With This Picture

Without knowing more, it is hard to comment on what the issue is.

BTW a 5lb increase each week is 250lb over a year!

250 lb Increase In A Year

So, with this approach, in two years there would be a 500 lb increase and in three years there would be a 750 lb increase.

That works on paper and in a vacuum but not in real life.

 

[solarbear]

250 lb Increase In A Year

So, with this approach, in two years there would be a 500 lb increase and in three years there would be a 750 lb increase.

Point was the increases add up quickly and there is no real reason to rush them.

Typically people hit a point where those 5lb gains go from weekly, to fortnightly, to monthly. There is no need to jump 20lb and skip right ahead to where the gains slow to monthly or even quarterly. Just take it slow and consistent gains will add up.

2 lifters.

One makes 20lb jumps twice and a bunch of 5lb jumps and finds that after 12 months they've gotten to that 2/3/4 plate bench/sq/dl that often marks the milestone between novice and intermediate. For the most part his PRE was 7+ and at times to keep his progress going 10. He maybe even had to run planned light fortnight's to recoup from the 10s.

Two makes 5lb jumps and reaches the same plateau at about the same time but never stalled... He had periods where PRE was low and others where it was high... Built in periodization..

Two probably has more motivation left and his joints are healthier. And he has been able to do it without a coach or a lot of knowledge.

 

[Steve Freides]

Based on your information in this thread: Barbell - Powerlifting noob?

Working with your son, you seem to have arbitrarily picked this scheme of 5x5 deadlifts once a week, 5x5 squats once a week, and 5x5 bench once a week, with accessories on each of these days....

I would suggest that you should find a program, and follow it. What you're currently doing is really not optimal for progress, especially as you move up in weight!

5 x 5 once a week on each of the three powerlifts is a program, no? It was featured in Pavel's interview with Tim Ferriss - Faleev's program with Pavel's suggested adjustments. (In that program, you also do a light day for SQ and BP each week.) Speaking for myself, I've used this approach and had great results with it. I am not familiar with the earlier thread you linked to, but one heavy day for each of the three PL's per week is a tried-and-true American powerlifting approach. Sometimes the heavy days can take forms other than 5 x 5. I'm doing this now, using 5 x 5 for SQ and BP, and using a 4 weeks of 8's, 4 weeks of 5's, 2 weeks of triples and 2 weeks of doubles, all overlaid on a steadily increasing weekly weight, for my DL. 112.5 kg for 3 sets of 8 is in the books, tomorrow will be 117.5 kg for 3 sets of 8, and I'll keep on this as I head for a meet the third weekend in November. Last training session is planned to be my most recent 1RM for 2 doubles.

-S-

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

Point was the increases add up quickly and there is no real reason to rush them.

Typically people hit a point where those 5lb gains go from weekly, to fortnightly, to monthly. There is no need to jump 20lb and skip right ahead to where the gains slow to monthly or even quarterly. Just take it slow and consistent gains will add up.

The Point

The key in maintain long term progress is a well formulated Periodization Training Program.

To reitereated, it is a Syclical method with progressive loading with a final week that push a movement to the limit or close to it.

Evidently, your are unfamiliar with it and might consider investing some time learning more about it.

Unfortunately, I cannot explain this to you in 5 minutes nor in a few sentences.

No Need For 20 lbs Jumps

I am sure you can correct Pavel with his misguided information on this.

 

[solarbear]

I am sure you can correct Pavel with his misguided information on this.

I think when you look at Pavel's programs you start to see that they are based on making small consistent increases and working out at sub maximal weights. So maybe we are not on completely different pages.

I just look at two months of lifting and think ok I make a 20lb jump today and then a few weeks down the road don't make anything. Motivation wanes and I start looking for something to help get that next gain. Whereas if I went up by 5-10lb/week over a couple months I'd end up at the same weight but perhaps safer.

My observations come from when I played football and players were under pressure to lift more as quickly as possible. They ended up with many physical imbalances and really average technique.

 

[watchnerd]

Wights - that takes me back.

So, this was at the end of the module and we were squaring off against Strahd in castle Ravenloft - he had traps in the room, among them a section of the floor with a spell of teleportation... Of course, as my fighter charged, he stepped on that and was instantly teleported NAKED into a room filled with wights... Man, still gives me nightmares.

Ravenloft (module) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I also found Ravenloft weird because it was trying to mix 19th century gothic aesthetic with swords & sorcery.

Plus, vampires draining levels from players seemed a weird power.

 

[Boris Bachmann]

I also found Ravenloft weird because it was trying to mix 19th century gothic aesthetic with swords & sorcery.

Plus, vampires draining levels from players seemed a weird power.

It was a little odd module that was, at least for us, a stand-alone adventure. We loved it. Yeah, the level draining thing is weird, but it certainly adds an element of "don't mess with them unless you're ready" to fighting the undead.