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Old Forum Weighted pulls and chins - what % of bodyweight makes you Strong

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Chiggers

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Pretty much as it says in the title.   For weighted pulls and chins - what % of body weight makes you Strong.  I find pullups considerably harder than chins so I would assume that the numbers are different depending on the grip.

If you were to rank using additional weight based on a  percentage of body weight what is:

Average

Strong

Advanced

Elite

Cheers for any ideas,

Richard

(I've been working these in ladder format and currently at 25% extra for the ladders.  When I test I am confident I could get my chin over the bar with a decent amount of extra weight for a single.  I want a feeling for what's what numbers wise).
 
+50% bodyweight = pretty good

+75% = very good, you're definitely a strong chinner at this point and can start working seriously towards an OAC

+100% = excellent. A double bodyweight chin is capital 's' Strong.

More than 100% = insanely good. +200% (Jasper Benincasa's +260 weighing 130) is the most I've heard of from anyone and he was perhaps the strongest 'chinner' of all time.

 

If it's numbers you're looking for, I think that in-shape adult males who are 'good' at pullups should be able to do at least a few with +45lb.

+100 is strong and achievable by just about any guy at any bodyweight, eventually (there are both lightweight rock climbers and heavyweight armwrestlers who can chin with 100 pounds).

+135 or +150 is really really good, you probably won't get there if you're extremely light or extremely heavy but it should be doable for most who specialize seriously on weighted chins for a few years.

+200 pounds is world class.
 
Thank you for the responses.

@Pavel currently with the ladder training, which has been working excellently, we have been alternating between the easier chin up and the pull up.  So when the chin up ladder is completed with good form with x additional weight we swap to tactical grip pull ups with the same weight until this is completed.  Then increase the weight and back to chin ups.  Rinse and repeat.  Is this a good approach in your book?  Is there a point where we should stop doing the alternating for any reason?
 
Richard, an interesting approach - I like it.

I offer one caveat - some people's elbows and/or shoulders don't like a lot of the same pullup/chinup variation and I'm one such person.  I've found more success by alternating pullups and chinups within the same workout, e.g., one set of one followed by one set of the other, or by treating one version as my main movement and using the second version for backoff sets - keeps my shoulders and elbows happier.

Good luck with this and please keep us posted on your progress.

-S-
 
Thank you Pavel and Steve.

Steve one of the reasons that I went with the ladder approach is that it so easy to train in a group. I remembered Pavel saying it was an old Spetsnaz way of training.  It's working well with martial artists.  I'll keep you posted as to how we all get on.  Cheers, R
 
It depends on the size of the athlete.  It is harder for a 6' 6" 250 lb athlete to do a pull-up than a 5'4" 135 lb athlete to do a pull-up.  That is why gymnasts are typically smaller men.  Smaller men should always be able to lift or pull a higher percentage of their body weight than larger men.  Whoever heard of a heavyweight cleaning and jerking three times their body weight?
 
Jeffrey you raise an interesting point that I never fully understand.  Let's leave gymnasts out as although they are always cited when talking about pullups it is such a low level move for them and I assume size matters with the much more leverage intensive moves they do, not the humble pullup.

50% extra for 100kg guy or a 75kg guys is still 50% of their respective bodyweight. Thus lifting it is as proportionately hard for them both.   Isn't it?

Is the lighter guys are always stronger in pulls not an excuse for heavier guys.  I confess to using this excuse being 6 foot 90kg.  I now have decided bollocks to it I'm just going to have to work harder ;-)
 
It is just the fact that a larger man that weighs twice as much as a smaller man will not typically be twice as strong.  It just doesn't scale that way.  In addition, a larger man will typically be a taller man, which means that even if they both lifted the same weight, the taller man would be doing more work since W = F x Distance.
 
Cool discussion.

On some level, I think you're right, Jeffrey.  The guy who is twice as big as me is not necessarily twice as strong. That makes perfect sense.

But at the same time, we use the x amount of bodyweight for lots of markers of true strength.  The 250 pound guy is expected to pull a 500 pound deadlift to hit the common double bodyweight bench mark.  Is there something inherently different about a double bodyweight deadlift and a 1/2 bodyweight pullup?

You're so right on the height thing.  As a slightly taller lifter, I will often see people do things and in my head exclaim, "but I have to press that bell 6 inches farther than you on every rep."  So it goes, I guess.
 
And I would add, I do think there is a difference when it comes to reps.  I can see how a small guy has an advantage at 20 pullups versus a bigger guy.  Just like a bigger guy would probably be able to get more 300 pound deadlifts in than a smaller guy.

But when it comes to one rep max in relation to bodyweight (or weight class, if we wanted to do that), I think the expectations should be the same across the board.
 
As a rule smaller guys are going to have an advantage with %bodyweight lifts and bigger guys are going to have larger raw numbers, that's just how it goes. But, that doesn't mean a 220lb guy can't shoot for hitting 50% BW on a pull up, or a 150lb guy can't aim for a 1RM of +100lbs. This discussion is why the TSC has events for both raw strength (deadlift) and relative strength (tactical pull ups).
 
Not a direct comment on this but math-and-weight-related:

When I figure our weighted pullups for myself, I add me and the additional weight together and do percentages based on that total, e.g., if I am working on a bw + 32 kg pullup single, I'll add my 68 kg to the bell's 32 for a total of 100 kg, then do percentage of 100 kg, so, e.g., a 90% lift would be 90 kg total, which would be bw + 22 kg for me.  My bodyweight alone would be a 68% effort, and so on.

I don't think that's exactly a correct way to do it, but it's been close enough for me in the past, and it's nice to be able to apply the standard percentages to your weighted pullups.

-S-
 
Steve, that's what I've always done. Using just percentages of the weight added doesn't allow for enough variation in weights between heavy, light and medium days.
 
Steve and Andy that makes sense for programming if you are doing light, medium heavy etc.  I will remember that for the future should I do that.

For calculating raw strength I figure the % in addition to  bw method still makes the most sense.
 
I totally get the point of adding bw and extra weight but the truth is it's different to do a pullup if you weigh 90 kg than if you weigh 85 and add another 5. Why? I don't know, but I've tried and it's harder to add weight, even if the total weight is the same.
 
What Jeffrey said.  A fair way of comparing is weight lifted, multiplied by distance the weight is moved, all divided by the person's bodyweight.  But who's counting.
 
In the 56 kg division, the world Record C&J is 168 kg, literally 3x body weight.

In the 105 kg division, the world record C&J is 238 kg, or 2.3x body weight.

in the 105+ kg division, the record is 263 kg, set by a guy who weighed around 150 kg, a 1.75x body weight lift.
 
So, the 105 kg lifter is 1.875x as big as the 56 kg lifter, but he lifted 1.4x as much as the smaller lifter.

i wish I knew how high each of them lifted the bar so I could compare the amount of work each of them did.
 
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