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Kettlebell What can I expect and how to train for my goals?

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Fredrik

Fredrik

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My name is Fredrik, I am 36 years old and I am new to the forum and kettlebells are pretty new to me as well. I am 183 cm tall and around 75 kg.
I have looked at kettlebells for a while and wanted to try it but have not had the time because of others sports I have trained.
I have been doing rock climbing for 18 years and trained pretty hard for a good chunk of those years, 5-7 Days a week with periodization throughout the year. I did get pretty strong and for a while I actually did one arm pullups (1-2) and one finger one arm hangs. I was also able to do a front lever back then.
When climbing that much, even though it's a pretty functional sport with natural movements, you can get a bit unbalanced in your body with some muscles getting crazy strong while other muscles are actually pretty weak. So around 2006 I started doing some cross country skiing and running as a balance to all the climbing and have also in periods done some work at the gym focusing mainly on pullups, dips, deadlift, military press and back squat. Since 2010 I have not climbed as much as before and I have focused more on skiing, running and bodyweight training like, pullups, planks, squats and pushups. I am not in the one arm pullup form anymore but probably still can do around 12-15 good pullups to the chest.
So I found kettlebells and S&S about two months ago... I know about some weaknesses I have had during my climbing days wich I think the S&S program could really adress. These weaknesses are my lower abs wich sometimes has caused my feet to cut loose during hard climbs and my shoulders wich sometimes have not been able to keep me close enough to the wall when performing some moves.
I have now for the first time in years motivation for climbing again but want to give the S&S a real chance and see how that possibly could benefit my climbing. A stronger and more balanced body is after all good for any sport and definitely for climbing.
I really would like to reach the goal of 32kg for both the swing and the TGU and then start climbing again. Weight is an issue in climbing of course so I am wondering if that would make me much heavier or is it achievable with just a slight gain in weight? I am meaning to set up a plan with a specific time for the simple goal and was thinking about by the end of this year. I am now at 24kg swings (wich feels pretty comfortable) and 16kg for the TGU (wich feels hard but ok). The swing felt natural from the start and I have no problem with that but the first move of get up is a bit challenging. Is it realistic in your experience to reach my goal by the end of the year or should I make a longer plan?
I am also planning to eventually reclaim the one arm pullup and suspect that the S&S can be helpful with that too or what do you think? Is there anyone who has experience with training for OAP and have any tips for excercises or practices that can be helpful?
Thanks
Fredrik
 
Hello,

S&S will not make you heavier, but stronger. At least, it was the case for me.

TGU is a very complete move (legs, arms, core) so it can "equalize" the strength of your entire body. Nevertheless, if you currently feel weaker for:
=> your legs : you can work out the pistol squat (weighted or not)
=> your arms : one arm / one arm one leg push up (or one arm pull up even if the OA pull up doesn't work your core as much as the OAOL push up) / bent press / press
=> your core : front lever / back lever / any kind of plank variation

Then if you really want to be sure not getting heavier, you can use a planning such as:
Monday: cardio (eg: 200 swing as fast as possible)
Tuesday: strength (moves described above)
Wednesday : cardio
Thursday : strength
Friday : cardio
Saturday : strength
Sunday : rest

Basically, I wouldn't train the day I climb.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Thank you Pet'
I dont feel that there is any specific weak parts that I would like to train with other excercises, my plan is to work on the S&S until I reach the simple goal and in between doing some work on my one arm pullup. How did it work for you? Did you make a jump between 16kg and 24kg and then to the 32kg for the TGU? Should I try to totally own the 16kg and then transition into the 24kg or should I get a 20kg and then a 28kg?
Any thoughts on the OAP? I didnt really train specifically for it back then but it rather came as a result of all the other training for climbing I did. I dont have access to all that equipment now (except for a pullup bar and some rings). I am of course a bit oder now as well and dont want to get injured in the process. I can still lock of at the top with one arm and lower myself down more or less controlled.
 
Hello,

I started S&S with a 20kg bell, for both swings and TGU. Then, I moved to 24 for a [short] while. Currently, I use a 28kg. I don't plan to go heavier for the moment. I simply do other strength move with bodyweight (front lever, full planche, OAOL push ups, HSPU, pistol squats).

I use a lot the OAOL push up maily for two reasons : I can do it anywhere at anytime, on a GTG basis. I worked it:
=> standard push ups for many reps and sets
=> OA two legs push up (less reps and sets)
=> OAOL negatives (from the top position to the low position, slowly)
=> standard OAOL push ups.

In all cases, pay attention to stay in a full body tension (legs, glutes, etc...)

For the OA pull up / chin up, here are two progressions:
One Arm Chin-up / Pull-up « Bodyweight Strength Training « Beast Skills

For this move, be careful with your shoulders

Kind regards,

Pet
 
Thanks for the tips @Pets' I have never seen that video and got some good really ideas from it. Working the Close grip really makes sense and also the half OAP.
Thank you! @Steve Freides
Anyone else who has gone all the way from 24kg swings and 16kg TGUs to the simple goal and can give me some tips?
 
Hello,

I started from 20kg but then, I progressed step by step.

My "advice" would be something like "take your time". When it seems really easy, move to the next weight, but not before. In my opinion, you have to "feel comfortable" with the moves. When you do you entire training without being tired at all, you can move.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
16 to 32 for me.
There are a lot off different progression tactics. For me the most important was probably not to wait until you meet the time standards to progress in weight. I don't mean that you should "overreach", but once you are comfortable with 100 swings in 8-10min add some swings with the next bell. In my experience this enables you to meet the standards much faster than always working with the same bell and compressing the time until you're at 5min/100swings.

It's the same for the TGU. Don't focus on the time. Once you are comfortable with 10 TGUs at 16 work in the 24 one rep at a time. You will see that when you reach the point where you are doing 6 TGus with 24 and 4 TGUs with 16, that meeting the standards with 16 will be no problem at all.

Another one is 2H-swings with the next bigger bell.
You're swinging the 24 now, so I'll give you an example of what I was doing at your point:
Day1: 1H-Swings with the 24
Day2: 1H-Swings with the 24 mixed with the 32***
Day3: 2H-Swings with the 32
Day4: Rest
then repeat the whole cycle

***e.g. 8sets with the 24 + 2 sets with the 32 for 2-3 workouts, then 6sets with 24 + 4sets with 32 for the next 2-3 workouts and so on... Another way could be adding more sets but reducing the reps - e.g. 8sets of 10reps with 24 + 4sets of 5reps with 32.

Of course your experience could differ and the OAP practice can have an impact on your S&S training, but since you were asking for tips I thought to share nonetheless.
 
Thanks! @Kettlebelephant
This was the kind of tips for the S&S I was lookning for! So you just skipped the 20kg and the 28kg all together and made bigger jumps between sizes?
For now I am focusing on the kettlebell because it's something I haven't done before and think it could really equalize my overall strength. I have already done a lot of training for one arm pulling strength and it feels like you get stuck in a rut after a while so thought I will do the S&S focused for a while and then after a while beginning with some one arm pullup excersices like the ones in the video wich @pet' was kind enough to share. Later on maybe 2-3 Days of OApullups and 3-4 Days of S&S
 
If your intention is to return to climbing, then by all means feel free to start practicing once again. By design, S&S does not have to be a stand alone program (although it certainly could be)--S&S was intended to complement our game/athletic pursuits, not interfere with it/them.

Assuming that you already have your diet under control, I'll second the advice of the other folks who have already advised you to not worry too much about the program adding undue mass. If a male trainee gains any noticeable size or weight upon reaching the "Simple" goal and it isn't due to poor eating or other lifestyle habits, I'd propose that these gains were probably from muscle that should have been there in the first place.

As far as one arm pulling goes, and while this isn't typically the kind of place where we say that anyone is wrong, just that we know what we do works; I don't believe that Convict Conditioning is the best route for rebuilding the ability (after dedicating several years to the methods and achieving five out of the six "master steps," I feel that I'm entitled to have my opinions on the programming, and we can discuss that in private if anyone cares to do so). Personally, I would endorse this tutorial:

One Arm Chin-up / Pull-up « Bodyweight Strength Training « Beast Skills

The weighted pulley system is brilliant, and was just the tonic to bring me from one iffy rep on the right (on a good day) to an all-time PR of a solid set of triples.
 
Thanks for the advice! @J Petersen
I will start climbing alongside the program but wount really have the oppurtunity to do so until next year so it fits me perfect to focus om S&S and pullups this fall.
The diet is very much in place yes so wathever weightgains I do get is then something I probably need..
I have tried working with a pulley and weights in the past and as you say it is really effective so perhaps I'll set one of those up again. What really helped me the last time was a variation of the towel technique for doing uneven pullups. And also some similar excercises as in the video posted by @pet' where helpful so I'll try to find a good mix for a program. Thanks again for the tips, the tutorial was enlightening!
 
Hello,

Nevertheless, pay attention to your shoulders with "asymetric" moves.

Sometimes, use stantard weighted pull ups / chin ups, to reach 1RM. That way, you use the same way your two shoulders without any risk of injury.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
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