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Barbell What exercises would Pavel choose if he wrote PTTP 2.0?

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SuperGirevik

SuperGirevik

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It's been a while since I read and watched Power to the People by Pavel. It was a fascinating book/video that flipped barbell lifting on it's head.

After reading PTTP, I never went back to training isolated muscles and worked exclusively with compound movements when using barbells. Granted, due to the fact that I do not own a barbell set at home, my main source of strength has been achieved by kettlebells. With that said, my brother does own a barbell setup and recently I've been experimenting with introducing deadlifts back into my life.

This got me thinking about PTTP and Pavel's view on the deadlift. Recently I've heard people talking about how the deadlift is not a recommended lift for health reasons (lower back injuries) and others are advocating that doing the lift with a hex bar versus the conventional straight bar is a much better option.

I don't like to follow trends or what's popular and I know StrongFirst doesn't either. So I was wondering, if Pavel were to write a revised version of PTTP today, would the traditional deadlift still be one of the two lifts? If I had to guess, I would say that it would be. Mainly because I'm assuming that if Pavel hasn't revised PTTP, it's because it doesn't need to be changed.

Either way, I'm curious about your thoughts :)
 
Apparently Pavel did write a later edition on PTTP. I have not or can't read it, because it was written in Russian. From what I gathered from other posts is he updated the rep scheme to 5,3,2 instead of 1x5 & 1x5@10% less. I think done more for convenience.

I also recall seeing another post or article somewhere seeing that Pavel wasn't a fan of replacing the barbell deadlift with the hex bar version. If you do some searching there may be some articles on here where Pavel compares the different hip hinge exercises.
 
I would imagine any other press variant would be sanctioned. The side and floor press were used because you didn’t need a rack. With a rack, one can do overhead press (or from the floor with a clean) or bench press. I imagine single-arm military press or bent press, or double kettlebell press, done ETK ladder style (perhaps less ladders per day, spreading the same weekly volume over 5 days), would also be sanctioned.
 
One of the parameters of PTTP was that you can do it with only a barbell and plates -- no rack or bench needed.

Hence the DL and side press, and the inclusion of the floor press as an alternative, but not the bench press or military press (the book mentions that the clean to get the bar in position for the military press is too technical for the minimalist ethos of the program).

But Pavel has stated that if he were to update PTTP, he would include the bench press for reasons of familiarity and accessibility (in addition to effectiveness).

Pavel is definitely a DL guy, so I don't see that changing (and requiring a specialized bar, like a hex bar, is outside the PTTP ethos).

SuperGirevik said:
Recently I've heard people talking about how the deadlift is not a recommended lift for health reasons (lower back injuries) and others are advocating that doing the lift with a hex bar versus the conventional straight bar is a much better option.
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There has always been a segment of people panicked by the DL as a "dangerous" exercise. That's really nothing new, and IMO misguided. There are also a lot of authorities who advocate infrequent deadlifting and/or alternative variations instead of full DLs from the floor. But this is usually in conjunction with a heavy focus on the squat, and is more a different way to balance and optimize training parameters than a repudiation of the DL.

PTTP is very well-proven program that has stood the test of time, so I wouldn't expect radical changes if it were updated.

Edit: By the way, I much prefer the original 2x5 100/90 rep scheme to the "updated" 532 scheme, even though there is a little more plate changing. I find that the second set of 5 at a lighter weight is very low stress (mentally and physically) and provides a great opportunity to really focus in on specific technical points. It's also very gratifying to use a weight for a back off set that was a top set earlier in a cycle or in a previous cycle.
 
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Dan John has remarked on a podcast (I think shred shed) hat he would change the the PTTP exercises to
  • Rack Deadlift 1 inch above/below the knee (alternate every 2 weeks)
  • Bench/incline/decline/Military Press (switch every 2 weeks)
... because the side press was too weird for the general audience.
 
Steve W. said:
But Pavel has stated that if he were to update PTTP, he would include the bench press for reasons of familiarity and accessibility (in addition to effectiveness).

Pavel is definitely a DL guy
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@Steve W Thanks for that excellent reply. I used to be under the impression that Pavel disliked bench pressing but after reading several StrongFirst articles, I've realized that I was wrong.

For the press, I would choose between the bench and military press.

By the way, like Pavel, I'm definitely a DL guy as well :cool:
 
piratebum said:
Pavel has mentioned that the hexbar is acceptable.
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I am not Pavel, but I don't consider the hex/trap bar lift an acceptable substitute for a deadlift. It is, to quote something I think Pavel said in earlier book, better than a slap in the face with a dead fish, but there is nothing like the deadlift to teach strength, IMHO.

SuperGirevik said:
Recently I've heard people talking about how the deadlift is not a recommended lift for health reasons (lower back injuries) and others are advocating that doing the lift with a hex bar versus the conventional straight bar is a much better option.
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Please pay no attention to those people. Please also note, however, that the programming in PTTP for the deadlift is part of the PTTP "package" and don't, e.g., go taking someone's "1000 squats in 4 weeks" program and swap out the squat for the deadlift.

;)

If you do the deadlift as we teach it, and you fail a lift, most of the time the bar should stay on the floor, or get stuck just below your knees, or you'll fail to lock it out, or something along those lines. You shouldn't be getting injured if you understand and practice the techniques we teach.

SuperGirevik said:
I don't like to follow trends or what's popular and I know StrongFirst doesn't either
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+1

-S-
 
My personal favorite combination is alternating between:

Push Press
Front Squat w/ Chains

Incline Bench w/ Chains
Power Clean
 
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Steve Freides said:
If you do the deadlift as we teach it, and you fail a lift, most of the time the bar should stay on the floor, or get stuck just below your knees, or you'll fail to lock it out, or something along those lines. You shouldn't be getting injured if you understand and practice the techniques we teach.
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In my case, I can usually tell from the first couple of inches off the ground if I'm going to be able to perform the lift safely. If I feel I have to go into "overdrive" to get the weight up, I abort.

I once saw someone trying to lift 500lbs, he wanted to set a PR, and mid way through the lift his form broke down and his head looked like it was going to burst... he pushed through it but at the cost of potentially hurting his back. I was not impressed at all. I would have been more impressed to see him lift 450lbs with good form.

With that said, my biggest concern is slightly rounding my back, so I tend to record myself to check my form.
 
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