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Nutrition What is a Reasonable Diet?

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Neuro-Bob

Neuro-Bob

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This is something I’ve been thinking about a lot lately, partially because I’m a nerd. Not trying to find the Perfect diet to maintain the rest of my life, just interested to hear others’ opinions on what is Reasonable or Good Enough.

In my own attempt to describe it, I’ve only gotten to simplify as far as “only eat 1-2 times per day.”

There’s more I could add, but I feel that it gets too complicated and distracts from the point.

For example: I like to discuss habitual versus actual hunger, then say “only eat when you’re hungry, but be honest with what hungry actually means.” Same thing with being full, “eat until full, but be honest with what full means.” However even for myself, these two descriptions may take more self-awareness than is required for Reasonable/Good Enough.

Thoughts?
 
Hard to say Bob. It depends on reasonable for what? (Goals again!)
One persons meat is another's poison.

A reasonable diet for Eddie Hall would not be reasonable for Adam Ondra. A reasonable diet for Chris Froome, would not be reasonable for your grandmother.

For a person who has no designs on fitness or health a reasonable diet would be vastly different than what you or I would probably think. And there is naught wrong with that.

And there are always 'stories' of people achieving quite extraordinary physical activities and longevity on what appears to be pretty atrocious diets.

At the end of the day....
 
Whole foods, Mostly plants, not too much.

Are general guidelines I try to live by

It helps me stay at 175lb at 5'11 age 33

My goal is to be mobile every day and be able to pickup my kids and groceries with ease
 
Neuro-Bob said:
This is something I’ve been thinking about a lot lately, partially because I’m a nerd. Not trying to find the Perfect diet to maintain the rest of my life, just interested to hear others’ opinions on what is Reasonable or Good Enough.

In my own attempt to describe it, I’ve only gotten to simplify as far as “only eat 1-2 times per day.”

There’s more I could add, but I feel that it gets too complicated and distracts from the point.

For example: I like to discuss habitual versus actual hunger, then say “only eat when you’re hungry, but be honest with what hungry actually means.” Same thing with being full, “eat until full, but be honest with what full means.” However even for myself, these two descriptions may take more self-awareness than is required for Reasonable/Good Enough.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Hello Bob, this is an interesting question especially regarding hunger. I rarely get 'hunger pangs' but can feel the need for fuel as my muscles begin to go flat and I start to become surly and short tempered. Getting to that point is not healthy IMO so I try not to do it on a regular basis.
I've found that heavy fueling at night takes me easily through the morning to at least noon without eating, this includes kb training for an hour or more usually. I'll eat when finished then have nothing substantial until the evening. Evenings I eat as much as I want..

I'm snatching now on Al Ciampa's Plan 111 which includes LED work, walking 10-15 mi and rowing 1-2 hrs per week. With my diet unchanged I've dropped weight , around 5 lbs so now I need to adjust the diet somewhat to keep strength levels up. BTW even though I've lost weight my strength levels are increasing across the board from snatching, starting with VWC and continuing with A+A.

A straight Warrior Diet does not work for me but the one post training meal followed by a 5-6 hour non-eating window until a big dinner seems to work well.
 
@offwidth meat is NEVER poison. Too tasty.

@Snowman yes, something along the lines of “as I hold this here inside my hand....does this thing generally look how it looks in its natural environment?” If it is a bit removed from its natural state, how far and to what extent are important. A bag of Doritos - not quite jungle food. Roasted nuts or a nut butter - ok it’s jungle food, just in a different shape.

@thegoldengod is that first line a sentence from a book? I feel like I’ve heard it somewhere.

@Bret S. i love thinking about hunger. It’s honestly such a weird thing, at the end of the day. Your experience is almost the exact opposite of mine. If I eat heavy in the late evening/night I will wake up (in my best Parks and Rec voice) “LITERALLY” starving to death.
 
offwidth said:
A reasonable diet for Eddie Hall would not be reasonable for Adam Ondra. A reasonable diet for Chris Froome, would not be reasonable for your grandmother.
Click to expand...

Would you say that this is more in terms of volume, or more in terms of meal composition (“macros”)?
 
Neuro-Bob said:
This is something I’ve been thinking about a lot lately, partially because I’m a nerd. Not trying to find the Perfect diet to maintain the rest of my life, just interested to hear others’ opinions on what is Reasonable or Good Enough.

In my own attempt to describe it, I’ve only gotten to simplify as far as “only eat 1-2 times per day.”

There’s more I could add, but I feel that it gets too complicated and distracts from the point.

For example: I like to discuss habitual versus actual hunger, then say “only eat when you’re hungry, but be honest with what hungry actually means.” Same thing with being full, “eat until full, but be honest with what full means.” However even for myself, these two descriptions may take more self-awareness than is required for Reasonable/Good Enough.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

I personally believe that in order to find "the perfect diet" you have to look at the lifestyle that you live. Everything from the amount of sleep you get, stress levels, hours of work, training schedules, kids, and dietary restrictions.

Someone who is a firefighter or a nurse is probably not someone who can eat more frequently. So to say that is "the way to do it" would be incorrect.

Principles never change though.

Proper balance between all micro and macro nutrients is where people get lost. It's always about the "next big thing, and oh that looks good" If my plate looks like 1/2 veggies, 1/4 protein, and 1/4 fat, i'm probably doing it right. Obviously all those other things I had mentioned at the beginning will effect this as well as the actual size of each of those portions, but that is the general concept.

In my own personal opinion, unless you have a dietary restriction due to religion, allergens etc, you should never avoid any food group.

The problem with only eating when you are hungry, IMO, is that so many people have jacked up metabolism because of years of drastically under eating or excessively unbalanced eating. Their bodies don't know which way is up or down and they need to be "reset", if you will, back to homeostasis.

After that they are able to understand what is really hunger and what is boredom or fill in the blank with whatever emotion is tied to it.

I'd say at least 80% of the people I have worked with over the past 10 years, are under eating. If you were to have someone, or you if you wanted to see where you stand, use a food logging app like my fitness pal, track all your food for 1 week. Don't change anything, just eat what you normally eat and drink and compare that to where you should be. The calculator for MFP is generally pretty close. You'd be surprised. Again, when I say you, I'm really meaning anyone.

For the clients I work with, I find that focusing on becoming more aware of what they are eating, having them slow down when they eat, and stop when they reach I certain point of being full, puts people in a much better position to understand what their bodies are trying to say to them.

I don't know if that answered it, or not, Sorry if I went off into a tangent there. hahaha, a lot of thoughts just popped up as I started typing.

btw, my first post here, so yea.....
 
offwidth said:
Well... there are performance based situations when you need to eat whether you feel hungry or not.

But I agree that most of us going about our daily routine in the flatlands should probably eat when hungry.
Click to expand...

During an event (i.e. Ironman) maybe, but I can't imagine this being the case day to day.
 
Cody Rhinehart said:
I personally believe that in order to find "the perfect diet" you have to look at the lifestyle that you live. Everything from the amount of sleep you get, stress levels, hours of work, training schedules, kids, and dietary restrictions.

Someone who is a firefighter or a nurse is probably not someone who can eat more frequently. So to say that is "the way to do it" would be incorrect.

Principles never change though.

Proper balance between all micro and macro nutrients is where people get lost. It's always about the "next big thing, and oh that looks good" If my plate looks like 1/2 veggies, 1/4 protein, and 1/4 fat, i'm probably doing it right. Obviously all those other things I had mentioned at the beginning will effect this as well as the actual size of each of those portions, but that is the general concept.

In my own personal opinion, unless you have a dietary restriction due to religion, allergens etc, you should never avoid any food group.

The problem with only eating when you are hungry, IMO, is that so many people have jacked up metabolism because of years of drastically under eating or excessively unbalanced eating. Their bodies don't know which way is up or down and they need to be "reset", if you will, back to homeostasis.

After that they are able to understand what is really hunger and what is boredom or fill in the blank with whatever emotion is tied to it.

I'd say at least 80% of the people I have worked with over the past 10 years, are under eating. If you were to have someone, or you if you wanted to see where you stand, use a food logging app like my fitness pal, track all your food for 1 week. Don't change anything, just eat what you normally eat and drink and compare that to where you should be. The calculator for MFP is generally pretty close. You'd be surprised. Again, when I say you, I'm really meaning anyone.

For the clients I work with, I find that focusing on becoming more aware of what they are eating, having them slow down when they eat, and stop when they reach I certain point of being full, puts people in a much better position to understand what their bodies are trying to say to them.

I don't know if that answered it, or not, Sorry if I went off into a tangent there. hahaha, a lot of thoughts just popped up as I started typing.

btw, my first post here, so yea.....
Click to expand...
Welcome to the SF forums! And thanks for such a complete reply.

So it sounds like a rule of thumb would be as you mentioned 1/2+1/4+1/4. That’s something a person can generally go by, in the spirit of Good Enough diet.

Or more meditateively put later, slow down and be aware of what you’re eating and what you’re feeling. Has this been a difficult step for people in your experience?

Any time I’ve used a tracker, usually MyPlate by Livestrong (not the garbage FDA MYPlate), the apps have overestimated my calories by anywhere 500-1000. Perhaps I overstated my activity level though, and perhaps I’m not 100% average. I know every TDEE thing needs to be personalized.

Why would you never avoid any food group?

How would you describe a “jacked up metabolism” and what do you do to reset it?

This really isn’t my profession, just pure curiosity and interest. It seems almost any study I read is more Science! than actual science in this area (if you get my drift) so it’s nice to hear these perspectives.
 
offwidth said:
Try doing a 23hr climb at high altitude...

Granted not mainstream...
Click to expand...
Some would say this is outside the realms of Good Enough and into high performance.....

But really is anything you do mainstream? Do you really think bicycles and albinism will EVER catch on?!?!?
 
I definitely agree about the eat real recognizeable food in as basic unprocessed a form as possible that is being discussed.

I am semi part time in helping admin a FB page for a "habits based" eating style promoted as a means of losing weight (promoting more how one eats, vs calorie counting) Actually losing weight is a more distant goal, managing one's feelings about food, one's mental health/body image, and the pattern of how one eats are promoted more. Gradual weight loss is the side effect of developing habits you can sustain over your lifetime.

The first baby step is to just eat 3 to 4x a day. That's it. (Talking about the average joe here, not extreme athletes). No judging what one eats, if it is junk food or not. I love what everyone above discusses about hunger. Until you group your snacking/grazing into your "planned meals, and eat a more satisfying volume, one does not realize how we eat almost 24/7 nowadays. Then, that leads to all those lovely hormones/chemicals working, and then actual true hunger comes instead of being semi full from grazing all day. Learning to recognize that and not panic. Then comes recognizing your full point when you eat, then comes altering what you eat such as more protien/fiber/fats for satiety, more fruit/veggies, etc. But even for some people getting off the eating constantly treadmill is huge.

From my experience, even atering one's habits are huge. Even just to stop mindless eating. Although a calorie is not a calorie, in my estimation...more "good" fats, more protien, etc helps you feel satisfied longer.
 
Neuro-Bob said:
Welcome to the SF forums! And thanks for such a complete reply.

So it sounds like a rule of thumb would be as you mentioned 1/2+1/4+1/4. That’s something a person can generally go by, in the spirit of Good Enough diet.

Or more meditateively put later, slow down and be aware of what you’re eating and what you’re feeling. Has this been a difficult step for people in your experience?

Any time I’ve used a tracker, usually MyPlate by Livestrong (not the garbage FDA MYPlate), the apps have overestimated my calories by anywhere 500-1000. Perhaps I overstated my activity level though, and perhaps I’m not 100% average. I know every TDEE thing needs to be personalized.

Why would you never avoid any food group?

How would you describe a “jacked up metabolism” and what do you do to reset it?

This really isn’t my profession, just pure curiosity and interest. It seems almost any study I read is more Science! than actual science in this area (if you get my drift) so it’s nice to hear these perspectives.
Click to expand...


I have found that a lot of people over estimate their activity level for sure. At the same time all of this methods are just a calculation and unlike the equation itself, it's not 100% accurate all the time. Calculations don't take into considerations stress levels, body types, sleep, water intake, etc etc. All of those play HUGE roles in determining the overall intake to out take in the body. I always tell people to use the calculation, then track your food, water, stress, sleep, for at least 1 week, better for 2 and watch for changes. If you gain, then cut back, if you lose, then add. This is all to find the maintenance amount needed.

If you were to continue to keep the food where it was and continue to lose, it's very possible to only happen for a short amount of time, and then it can either stop or you can start to gain. You would start losing because you are eating less than before. You would stop because the amount you are eating is less, then what you body can operate with. You'd start gaining because you have been too low for to long and the body is "fighting this" because it thinks it's in danger and is trying to protect itself.

This is where people get the jacked up metabolisms. They are chronically under eating for so long that their metabolism doesn't even know what's going on and it's not functioning properly. The way the body losses weight is by lowering the food intake and so the body catches on to that and says, "Hey, we aren't bringing in enough food here, so we need to lower the flame (metabolism) to catch up to the intake"

Think about the metabolism as a fire and the wood is the food. If there is not wood in the stove, the fire can't burn. Once the fire has been so low for so long, what happens? It goes out. And now you have to restart the fire.

To restart the metabolism you would need to:
  1. Find out how much you need to be eating and find out how much you have been eating, by logging your food for at least a week, without changing anything in your current diet.
  2. Slowly make the changes +- 10% on a weekly basis. Let's say you should be eating 2500 cal, which for an average male, that is about correct, but you have only been eating 1800 cal. You would add 10% or 180 cal and wait to see what happened with the weight. More carbs = more water retention, so some is ok. You are looking for no increase for 3-4 days before you would increase again. You would continue the 10% increase until you weight gain was "continual" or there was non at all. Meaning, you add that 10% and in a week you are up .5lb and then the next week you are also up .5, now you know you went to far and need to subtract that 10% and now you have your base.
More most, 12 weeks is about the amount of time I want people at a base before they decide on weight loss or gain.

In terms of the food groups, I think that everything is fine in moderation and excluding entire food groups,unless it's one of the reasons aforementioned, doesn't help with sustainability as well as missing out on nutrients that those food groups offer.

Hope this answered what you were asking.
 
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