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Nutrition What is a Reasonable Diet?

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Hard to say Bob. It depends on reasonable for what? (Goals again!)
One persons meat is another's poison.

A reasonable diet for Eddie Hall would not be reasonable for Adam Ondra. A reasonable diet for Chris Froome, would not be reasonable for your grandmother.

For a person who has no designs on fitness or health a reasonable diet would be vastly different than what you or I would probably think. And there is naught wrong with that.

And there are always 'stories' of people achieving quite extraordinary physical activities and longevity on what appears to be pretty atrocious diets.

At the end of the day....
Does Adam Ondra eat at all?

@Neuro-Bob
I think basically the same what @offwidth said.
I say there are points you can check and see wether your diet is right for you:
- sleep (recreatinial, feeling recovered in the morning)
- digestion (regular, no obstipation or the opposite)
- hunger (according to activity level, sometimes more sometimes less, no regular binges)
- weight (remaining stable, no matter if you eat more or less for some time -> settling point)
- skin (smooth, no acne, not itchy)
- eyes (shiny and white, not yellowish -> liver!!)
I like a more holistic approach when it comes to nutrition. I like experimenting with low carb for some time, vegan for some weeks, or else. There is always sth I keep for longer periods of time and which becomes a habit. I think it is not the right way to say 'always...' or 'never...'.
It not the people who fail, diet is.
 
This is a question I've asked myself my whole life, having always struggled with weight. Having done all diets you can imagine, the last months I have turned 180° and I´m not paying any attention at all to what I eat to very good results.

Paying excessive attention to food takes a lot of effort in every sense, and I wonder if its worth it. So isnt it a better idea to apply some sort of 80/20 rule? These would be my flow chart:

- Is your blood test ok? If yes, keep eating the same foods.
- Do you need to lose weight? Skip breakfast. If you dont like skipping breakfast, reduce portions or increase low intensity cardio.

I wonder if anyone who can swing 10x10 and get up 10x1 with 40% bodyweight would be overweight following the above guidelines. By the way, I think the above guidelines apply to fine-tuning diet, not to people that need to lose a lot of weight, are sedentary or have health issues.

I have stressed a lot about diet and I´m a lot happier now that I dont pay much attention to it.
 
@Bret S. i love thinking about hunger. It’s honestly such a weird thing, at the end of the day. Your experience is almost the exact opposite of mine. If I eat heavy in the late evening/night I will wake up (in my best Parks and Rec voice) “LITERALLY” starving to death.

I think coffee and half-n-half help me around the 'hunger' thing, there's just enough fat and caffeine to get me energetic and training. I have experienced what you speak of on occasion but the coffee seems to take care of it pretty quick.
There are days where I'll eat right away because I need it but that's a 'by feel' thing..
 
I always tell people to use the calculation, then track your food, water, stress, sleep, for at least 1 week, better for 2 and watch for changes. If you gain, then cut back, if you lose, then add. This is all to find the maintenance amount needed.
Hey Cody, great to have you here.
I like your thinking, it's more 'practice than theory' which I believe is superior for getting intended results.

You would start losing because you are eating less than before. You would stop because the amount you are eating is less, then what you body can operate with. You'd start gaining because you have been too low for to long and the body is "fighting this" because it thinks it's in danger and is trying to protect itself.
Too many fall into this hole and become confused, training T2 muscle fibers with a steady 'base' of nutrition for a time jacks up metabolism nicely but takes time, especially in a softer individual. After a time they can reassess exactly where they are.

A simple test I think is if you sleep with a mate and they can't get near you at night because you're like a 'furnace' then you have a nice 'hot' (my girl only comes near me in winter when I have the windows open) metabolism.

Cold hands and feet, pasty thin skin, poor circulation and needing sweaters and jackets too much indicates an internal fire on life support and a sleeping metabolism. Nothing to work with..
 
To me, reasonable means a fair amount of variety to start with.

This has come up before, but I generally just try to increase my protein intake from natural sources as much as possible, and limit portion sizes of any foods that are low in protein, be they high in fats, carbs, or both.

I also tend toward a fair amount of fruit, as I train a lot of higher intensity/longer set duration and really need the extra glucose.

Get as much as possible from natural sources, and I also eat as much organic as possible to reduce my exposure to pesticide residues.

I don't worry about feeling hungry, I expect to feel my stomach rumble a couple times a day. If my pants are tight in the thigh and loose at the waist I'm doing well.
 
To me, a reasonable diet is:
  • Sustainable - a lifelong pattern, not a short-term fix
    • Healthy is part of this - a diet you can eat consistently for years but is terrible for you isn't really sustainable because it shortens your life!
    • This could also get to the ecological/ethical dimensions to the question
  • Sufficient quality protein
  • Lots of vegetables
  • Healthy fats
  • Sweets/treats/junk food have their place - as treats/deviations from the norm, not a huge percentage of the diet
  • Three squares a day (limited snacking) or even three meals' worth eaten in a 6-8 hour window (fasting or eating just a little outside that) was the norm for most of human history, "snacking" as we know it is a recent invention of the food industry
  • I like Ori Hofmekler's advice: don't drink water before/during the meal, and stop eating (even just temporarily) when you are more thirsty than hungry. Chances are, after a glass of water, you won't return to finish your plate (save it for another time).
 
I don't worry about feeling hungry, I expect to feel my stomach rumble a couple times a day. If my pants are tight in the thigh and loose at the waist I'm doing well.
This.

I live in a world where lab values and imaging results reign supreme. We tend to forget that one of the best predictors of disease and all cause mortality (if not the best) is the waist:hip ratio. I like @North Coast Miller's version, too. The WHR doesn't factor in the protective value of muscle mass.

I suppose you could argue that a reasonable diet should be defined by it's results. A clear mind, powerful body, and pleasing physique are things that we should all own. If we don't, then diet is one of the first things to look at. Otherwise, whatever you're doing is probably alright. Optimization is whole 'nother story, but that's not what we're talking about here.
 
  • I like Ori Hofmekler's advice: don't drink water before/during the meal, and stop eating (even just temporarily) when you are more thirsty than hungry. Chances are, after a glass of water, you won't return to finish your plate (save it for another time).

This is a very interesting comment to think about. A different way of looking at things!
 
The WHR doesn't factor in the protective value of muscle mass.

Why not? I think it does. It compares a perimeter of high fat storage with the perimeter of the biggest muscles in the body (for males).

IMO it is not such a good indicator for women because they tend to store more fat in the hips, so it doesn't isolate fat vs. Muscle as well as with men.
 
Why not? I think it does. It compares a perimeter of high fat storage with the perimeter of the biggest muscles in the body (for males).
I stand corrected. Sometimes I mix up waist measurement with beltline measurement, which is based more on pelvis size. Obviously, I need more practice using the BMR metric o_O. Someday, when I'm an adult and can do what I want...
 
I like to run my body fat level on the lean side at all times vs gaining fat in the winter and having to lose it in the spring. There's a fine line between too many calories and enough calories, too many and I gain some fat, too little and I lose strength/muscle size over a longer term.
Trying to stay in the Goldilocks calorie zone at all times I find to be somewhat unnatural, it seems my body loves to go super lean for a time but then 'craves' an extra calorie run for awhile. During this time I gain some weight (muscle and a bit of fat), these cycles aren't concocted by me but come naturally and instinctively.

I'm right now doing a 'fat' cycle and ab definition is blurred but easily brought back in 7-10 days with some diet adjustments. Getting leaner and staying there with small adjustments in nutrition is key to staying in decent general physical condition.
20181031_074748_Film1 (2).jpg
Adjustments in LED work also play a role for me. Some daily kettlebell work makes me feel consistently tuned up and tight.

Edit: being ripped like @North Coast Miller 's avatar picture is hard to do and maintain for me
 
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I like to run my body fat level on the lean side at all times vs gaining fat in the winter and having to lose it in the spring. There's a fine line between too many calories and enough calories, too many and I gain some fat, too little and I lose strength/muscle size over a longer term.
Trying to stay in the Goldilocks calorie zone at all times I find to be somewhat unnatural, it seems my body loves to go super lean for a time but then 'craves' an extra calorie run for awhile. During this time I gain some weight (muscle and a bit of fat), these cycles aren't concocted by me but come naturally and instinctively.

I'm right now doing a 'fat' cycle and ab definition is blurred but easily brought back in 7-10 days with some diet adjustments. Getting leaner and staying there with small adjustments in nutrition is key to staying in decent general physical condition.
View attachment 6749
Adjustments in LED work also play a role for me. Some daily kettlebell work makes me feel consistently tuned up and tight.

Edit: being ripped like @North Coast Miller 's avatar picture is hard to do and maintain for me
That is a great picture. Looking good!
 
This.

I live in a world where lab values and imaging results reign supreme. We tend to forget that one of the best predictors of disease and all cause mortality (if not the best) is the waist:hip ratio. I like @North Coast Miller's version, too. The WHR doesn't factor in the protective value of muscle mass.

I suppose you could argue that a reasonable diet should be defined by it's results. A clear mind, powerful body, and pleasing physique are things that we should all own. If we don't, then diet is one of the first things to look at. Otherwise, whatever you're doing is probably alright. Optimization is whole 'nother story, but that's not what we're talking about here.
Stumbled across " pleasing physique...that we all should own."
What is pleasing? What pleases my eye might be difderent from what others like. Somehow every one owns a pleasing physique for some one.
 
Stumbled across " pleasing physique...that we all should own."
What is pleasing? What pleases my eye might be difderent from what others like. Somehow every one owns a pleasing physique for some one.


I think that starts with posture and encompasses a blend of fat% with muscle mass, factoring in bone size. Folks with more muscle or bigger bone structure tend to support a little more bodyfat without looking unhealthy.

But you have a point, there is no hard and fast metric for the range an individual can carry and still look pleasing to somebody. That doesn't mean the given physique is healthy though. If one's physique is honestly pleasing to themself would be the final measure.
 
What is pleasing? What pleases my eye might be difderent from what others like. Somehow every one owns a pleasing physique for some one.
True. Maybe a better way to say it would be "a physique we can be happy with." I'm certainly not saying that we all need to achieve some kind of ideal, simply that we shouldn't feel guilty when we look in the mirror. For instance, while I wouldn't mind having an extra 5-10 lbs of muscle, generally speaking I'm pretty happy with the way I look without much clothing on. I guess I break self-image into three groups:
1) I look darn-near perfect
2) I could look better, but I'm comfortable with my skin
3) I can clearly see that something is wrong with me

Most healthy people are going to spend most of their lives bouncing between 1 and 2. If you look in the mirror and think something is wrong, then you're probably correct. Maybe the issue is psychological (as opposed to metabolic) but there's still an issue. And I will argue up and down that diet does have a significant impact on emotional state, which is an important part of self-image.

A friend of mine has lost around 100 pounds over the last year. Technically, she's still overweight (almost obese), but she's happy with her body, is very proud of the progress she's made, and feels like she's attractive to her husband. Obviously, she's doing something right.
 
I understand what you are saying @Snowman.
And that is what makes her pretty for sure. I avoid to use the word perfect in regards to bodies. Who defines perfect? There is no perfect actually. There are certain points or parametres which the majority would say are attractive or pretty or hot. Perfect does not exist as an objective value per se it is completely subjective.
But this discussion would go too far ;) But maybe you you get what I am trying to say.
 
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