Barbell What is the role of the trap muscles in the strict ohp?

[liftit78]

Very confused about this. The trap is a pull muscle ; it is listed as one of the secondary movers in a few websites i've seen but i do not understand it status as a secondary mover, seems very foreign.

If you strengthen your traps what aspect of the OHP gets better?

 

[Marc]

The traps stabilize the weight over your head in the lockout position

 

[Kettlebelephant]

The way I was taught to OHP (with a barbell) was to shrug up at the top (-> bring your shoulders up to your ears). This shrug at the top of the press is all traps.
SF teaches the exact opposite for the KB press (-> pull your shoulderblades down using your lats).

 

[305pelusa]

The way I was taught to OHP (with a barbell) was to shrug up at the top (-> bring your shoulders up to your ears). This shrug at the top of the press is all traps.
SF teaches the exact opposite for the KB press (-> pull your shoulderblades down using your lats).

This. The shrug is actually an important shoulder impingement safety mechanism. It also helps with shoulder flexion so it's vital if you want to lock the weight out directly overhead (which you should).

If you've ever tried some snatches or overhead squats, I believe it's a similar idea. You want to shrug somewhat in order to "open" the shoulders and keep the weight overhead (and even slightly behind you for the Squat).

The Traps are also used for pulling... but only the lower traps. The upper traps are used for shrugging. That's the way I think about it.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[rickyw]

One of the many roles of the trapezius is to upwardly rotate the scapula so it can better support the head of the humerus in the glenoid during shoulder flexion or abduction. The lower fibers of the trapezius assist the upper trapezius in doing this by virtue of their attachment to the superomedial scapular spine. So, if lower traps are inhibited, upper traps overwork and tighten up.

Packing the shoulder during the press 1) engages the lower trap to a degree which should help it better aid in upward rotation, 2) engages the lat to stabilize the head of the humerus and aids the rotator cuff in keeping the head of the humerus centered in the glenoid as it rolls into flexion, which helps prevent impingement of the supraspinatus and long head of the biceps tendon against the coraco-acromial arch.

So to answer your question, strong and functional trapezius muscles help provide proper scapular positioning during overhead movements, which should translate into a stronger press.

 

[pet']

Hello,

It helps to shrug and maintain shoulder pack during the up and down phase. Plus it also helps you to avoid tucking your nuck.

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[JeffC]

In Classic Weightlifting Technique the shoulders are "Protracted". We say. In the snatch and Jerk the shoulders are pushed up and externally rotated to some degree, dependant on the individual. In the Clean the shoulders are pushed forward and up to cradle the bar. In the start position and pull the shoulders are slightly internally rotated to aid in the speed of the turnover.

We all develop our own technique, but we start with Classic Technique.

 

[Andrew Duncan]

Aren't the shoulder pack and shrug contradictory movements?

 

[rickyw]

Aren't the shoulder pack and shrug contradictory movements?

Yes.

At least for me, when I focus on packing during a one armed press, my shoulders tend to be happier.

And maybe somebody who knows more about the nuances of barbell vs kettlebell training can chime in, but I would think shrugging at the top of a one armed kettlebell press would lead to more lateral flexion of the spine-which may be why we don't hear it recommended. Shrugging at the top of a barbell press would not do this, unless you do them one handed

I would still think that packing the shoulder at the beginning of a barbell press would be helpful for the reasons I have stated. But once the shoulders are reaching terminal range at the top of a barbell press, shrugging would be okay, since the head of the humerus has already rotated around into flexion in the glenoid. Plus, at that point the upper traps tend to activate more strongly anyway, and actively cuing a shrug would just aid in this upper trap activation. But, I speak merely from a textbook knowledge of biomechanics, not experience. It's been a long time since I've touched a barbell!

Just my thoughts anyway

 

[305pelusa]

Yes.

At least for me, when I focus on packing during a one armed press, my shoulders tend to be happier.

And maybe somebody who knows more about the nuances of barbell vs kettlebell training can chime in, but I would think shrugging at the top of a one armed kettlebell press would lead to more lateral flexion of the spine-which may be why we don't hear it recommended. Shrugging at the top of a barbell press would not do this, unless you do them one handed

I would still think that packing the shoulder at the beginning of a barbell press would be helpful for the reasons I have stated. But once the shoulders are reaching terminal range at the top of a barbell press, shrugging would be okay, since the head of the humerus has already rotated around into flexion in the glenoid. Plus, at that point the upper traps tend to activate more strongly anyway, and actively cuing a shrug would just aid in this upper trap activation. But, I speak merely from a textbook knowledge of biomechanics, not experience. It's been a long time since I've touched a barbell!

Just my thoughts anyway

I think this is what it is.

I will add that an important reason for shrugging at the top of a BB Press is so that you can truly push the barbell somewhat "behind you" and center it right above you.

The way a Kettlebell is made (with the mass behind the arm), it's trying to push your arm into vertical. So even if you pack it, you should feel the arm getting pulled into vertical by itself. I think this is what makes the KB Press nice for lots of folks. You can get away with keeping the shoulder packed. Even in a two-arm KB Press.

That's my understanding anyways.

 

[liftit78]

The way I was taught to OHP (with a barbell) was to shrug up at the top (-> bring your shoulders up to your ears). This shrug at the top of the press is all traps.
SF teaches the exact opposite for the KB press (-> pull your shoulderblades down using your lats).

Is that taught for the one handed press or double bell press?

 

[liftit78]

I think this is what it is.

I will add that an important reason for shrugging at the top of a BB Press is so that you can truly push the barbell somewhat "behind you" and center it right above you.

The way a Kettlebell is made (with the mass behind the arm), it's trying to push your arm into vertical. So even if you pack it, you should feel the arm getting pulled into vertical by itself. I think this is what makes the KB Press nice for lots of folks. You can get away with keeping the shoulder packed. Even in a two-arm KB Press.

That's my understanding anyways.

I watched M.Ripp on youtube explain that shrugging with a barbell press avoids shoulder impingment. That's my understanding of what he said. I could be off..

 

[rickyw]

@liftit78 , he did say that yes...for the barbell press itself

 

[pet']

Hello,

If necessary, here is the wikipedia article about the trapezius muscle:
Trapezius muscle - Wikipedia

Here related to OVH press:
How to Overhead Press with Proper Form: The Definitive Guide | StrongLifts

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[Toby]

I do it with shoulder packed but trap relaxed (and kinda shrugged) at the top.

Also my traps are holding me back when I raise both my arms overhead. Not sure why. Need more mobility?

 

[liftit78]

Hello,

If necessary, here is the wikipedia article about the trapezius muscle:
Trapezius muscle - Wikipedia

Here related to OVH press:
How to Overhead Press with Proper Form: The Definitive Guide | StrongLifts

Kind regards,

Pet'

Nice! Thanks! It would stand to reason that the body's nervous response would allow for greater weight to be pressed overhead if it is convinced that the current strength leve of trap muscles can stabilize the scalpula correctly? I have never trained traps specifically. I am hoping that current barbell row, rdl pulls are sufficient

 

[pet']

Hello,

It would stand to reason that the body's nervous response would allow for greater weight to be pressed overhead if it is convinced that the current strength leve of trap muscles can stabilize the scalpula correctly?

I am not a biomechanics specialist or a health professional in general but from what I understand, the body "naturally refuses" to lift what it suspects it will have trouble to stabilize. So yes, I understand the same thing as you. Indeed, when we want to lift heavy, we strongly contract the concentric muscle, but we also put tension and the eccentric one. This is like accelerating while using the breaks.

Nonetheless, it is still possible to "hack " this thanks to muscular isolation. For instance, it is possible with some practice to strongly contract the biceps while totally relaxing the triceps to do an heavier curl for instance. So we contract an agonist, and relax an antagonist. Pavel talks about that in PttP. Max Sick in "Muscle Control" as well. So we have to be careful when we use this technique, because we want to protect our joints

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[liftit78]

Hello,


I am not a biomechanics specialist or a health professional in general but from what I understand, the body "naturally refuses" to lift what it suspects it will have trouble to stabilize. So yes, I understand the same thing as you. Indeed, when we want to lift heavy, we strongly contract the concentric muscle, but we also put tension and the eccentric one. This is like accelerating while using the breaks.

Nonetheless, it is still possible to "hack " this thanks to muscular isolation. For instance, it is possible with some practice to strongly contract the biceps while totally relaxing the triceps to do an heavier curl for instance. So we contract an agonist, and relax an antagonist. Pavel talks about that in PttP. Max Sick in "Muscle Control" as well. So we have to be careful when we use this technique, because we want to protect our joints

Kind regards,

Pet'

Thank you for this insight. I am onto something new. What you mention is a highly specialized skill from the sound of it. I can seem some master of sport using it!!

 

[Toby]

If any SFL , it would be great.