What would be the ultimate bodyweight as opposed to no equipment program?

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Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
I have spent several months before working on Naked Warrior, and it is excellent. My question is, in terms of SF philosophy, what would the ultimate program for bodyweight training be, where we are allowed to use equipment like bars and things like that?

Bodyweight training has its own charms - safer, loads a great amount of weight all at once, etc, as callisthenics enthusiasts and gymnasts will tell you.
 

IcyROM

Level 2 Valued Member
I have been looking for workouts for Calisthenics to make progress and a few days ago I found this workout from this forum. I think it is totally complete how you say and it trains high level of strength, muscle and endurance all in one. Definitely the ultimate Calisthenics workout. You might have to regress some exercises but it is my goal to perform one day without changing of exercises:

The Bodyweight Cyborg Workout

Part 1
3 rounds of:
1 One arm Chin-up (ES)
10 sec Wall One arm HS hold (ES)
5 Jumping Pistols with 5 sec hold at parallel (ES)

Part 2
Followed by a pyramid of:
Sternum Pull-ups (bar must contact lower chest/upper abs every rep)
Wall HSPUs (hands raised for full ROM)
Windshield Wipers (ES)

After every pyramid step, perform a 30 sec Horse Stance hold with feet wider than 3x shoulder width.

Part 3
Finishing with 2 rounds of:
10 Pull-ups
20 Rows
15 Wide, decline, Push-ups (hands elevated for full ROM)
30 Push-ups
10 Deck Squats

It's just my opinion of what the ultimate Calisthenics workout to do if you have bar.
 

Jak Nieuwenhuis

Level 6 Valued Member
I have spent several months before working on Naked Warrior, and it is excellent. My question is, in terms of SF philosophy, what would the ultimate program for bodyweight training be, where we are allowed to use equipment like bars and things like that?

Bodyweight training has its own charms - safer, loads a great amount of weight all at once, etc, as callisthenics enthusiasts and gymnasts will tell you.
have you read Dinosaur Body weight Training by Brooks Kubik?

Brad Johnson's book https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005K0X8Y0/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
I have been looking for workouts for Calisthenics to make progress and a few days ago I found this workout from this forum. I think it is totally complete how you say and it trains high level of strength, muscle and endurance all in one. Definitely the ultimate Calisthenics workout. You might have to regress some exercises but it is my goal to perform one day without changing of exercises:

The Bodyweight Cyborg Workout

Part 1
3 rounds of:
1 One arm Chin-up (ES)
10 sec Wall One arm HS hold (ES)
5 Jumping Pistols with 5 sec hold at parallel (ES)

Part 2
Followed by a pyramid of:
Sternum Pull-ups (bar must contact lower chest/upper abs every rep)
Wall HSPUs (hands raised for full ROM)
Windshield Wipers (ES)

After every pyramid step, perform a 30 sec Horse Stance hold with feet wider than 3x shoulder width.

Part 3
Finishing with 2 rounds of:
10 Pull-ups
20 Rows
15 Wide, decline, Push-ups (hands elevated for full ROM)
30 Push-ups
10 Deck Squats

It's just my opinion of what the ultimate Calisthenics workout to do if you have bar.
Well, I got to the first exercise on the list last year and injured my shoulder, hehehe. No doubt this would be the "ultimate" workout.

The part 3 stuff looks more sane for normal people. Al Kavadlo has lots of books, most of which I've bought and experimented with the methods. He himself doesn't train with a "program" but rather is aware of what moves are good and works on those full out. It seems that for him it's "time on task" towards fitness goals for particular exercises (like to hold a front lever for 60 seconds, or to do 25 pullups in a row) that counts the most over exactly how many reps of what, when. For 20 years the chinup bar was my only piece of exercise equipment, and it seemed to have done me good. I've since shied away from following my own whimsy and am now following prescribed programs, but maybe the goal oriented "as many chinups of different varieties as possible in a row, trained as many times in a day as possible", which was my philosophy, was not really as barbaric and clumsy an exercise philosophy as I thought it was. Funny how I always thought I was just hacking it and that real weight lifters lifted with weight machines and barbells. I didn't realize that callisthenics was considered serious lifting!
 

Marc

Level 6 Valued Member
As far as equipement is concerned, I'd say nothing beats gymnastic rings. Ring exercises are harder because you have to handle much more instability nut at the same time it is a lot safer because it does not force you into a certain position. Gymnastic rings will cover everything you need in terms of upper body developement.
 

Carl

Level 5 Valued Member
You could do a whole lot worse than having your only piece of kit be the pull up bar. Endless ways to keep strong from there.

I don't think there is an ultimate routine. There are ones that are perfect for periods of time, then we move on to something else (different moves, more challenging progressions etc). Hopefully, we avoid doing anything silly along the way that ends up causing more harm than good (not many of us do of course hence our injuries:)

SF methods often appear to be maximally simplified with a Zen like focus on the basics. An inch wide and mile deep. What our basics are come down to personal preference to some degree (i.e. what will you keep doing) and where we are in our journey.

As an aside, Naked Warrior does talk about the option of adding pull ups so maybe Pavel has already answered the question from his perspective (i.e. a routine of pull ups, 1 armed push ups and pistols) if using bodyweight only.






Well, I got to the first exercise on the list last year and injured my shoulder, hehehe. No doubt this would be the "ultimate" workout.

The part 3 stuff looks more sane for normal people. Al Kavadlo has lots of books, most of which I've bought and experimented with the methods. He himself doesn't train with a "program" but rather is aware of what moves are good and works on those full out. It seems that for him it's "time on task" towards fitness goals for particular exercises (like to hold a front lever for 60 seconds, or to do 25 pullups in a row) that counts the most over exactly how many reps of what, when. For 20 years the chinup bar was my only piece of exercise equipment, and it seemed to have done me good. I've since shied away from following my own whimsy and am now following prescribed programs, but maybe the goal oriented "as many chinups of different varieties as possible in a row, trained as many times in a day as possible", which was my philosophy, was not really as barbaric and clumsy an exercise philosophy as I thought it was. Funny how I always thought I was just hacking it and that real weight lifters lifted with weight machines and barbells. I didn't realize that callisthenics was considered serious lifting!
 

Carl

Level 5 Valued Member
I got some of these a few months ago, easy to pack and opens up horizontal pulling from the bar in addition to pull ups (i.e. inverted rows). Highly recommend them especially if you're a bodyweight only (or mainly) trainee and/or travel a lot - as I am presently.



As far as equipement is concerned, I'd say nothing beats gymnastic rings. Ring exercises are harder because you have to handle much more instability nut at the same time it is a lot safer because it does not force you into a certain position. Gymnastic rings will cover everything you need in terms of upper body developement.
 

Maine-ah KB

Level 6 Valued Member
with no equipment not even a place to hang from I would go with, Handstand/handstand PU progression, Push-up Progression (pseudo planche Pu's are freaken humbling) and Pistol/airborne lunge progression.
With my favorite piece of bodyweight equipment Gym-fantastic Rings ROFL it changes the game greatly. Dips variations, Rings Turnout Pushup progressions/archerpushups, Pull ups, and basic front/back leaver progressions (skin the cat, etc) and any row.
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
Yes, with rings you can both push and pull - push by doing dips with them and pull by doing pullups, and then there are advanced things like the iron cross. The simple chinning bar however just sits at the top of the doorframe and doesn't get in the way as I enter and exit the room, hehehe. I happen to have parallel bars I built for myself 15 years ago for dips. Funny though how I seem to activate mostly the same muscles for dips by doing chinups and pullups anyhow.
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
Al Kavadlo made the point that if you do pullups, dips and leg raises on the bar, and something for your legs (running, squats etc) you've got everything covered. I'm inclined to agree.
 

IcyROM

Level 2 Valued Member
Well, I got to the first exercise on the list last year and injured my shoulder, hehehe. No doubt this would be the "ultimate" workout.
Yes you have to be progressive with the routine. If you just attempt the exercises without slowly building up, you can get injured.

Al Kavadlo made the point that if you do pullups, dips and leg raises on the bar, and something for your legs (running, squats etc) you've got everything covered. I'm inclined to agree.
Al Kavadlo is a fan of progressive Calisthenics and so he doesn't just recommend pull ups and leg raises and dips but also to move on to harder variations once you are strong enough. I think this is good general thinking for both strength and muscle.
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
Yes you have to be progressive with the routine. If you just attempt the exercises without slowly building up, you can get injured.



Al Kavadlo is a fan of progressive Calisthenics and so he doesn't just recommend pull ups and leg raises and dips but also to move on to harder variations once you are strong enough. I think this is good general thinking for both strength and muscle.
For heavier people like myself at 100kg, those progressions get stretched out a lot longer. I remember a lightweight friend back in my teenage years doing 30 something chinups in a row while the most I had ever managed in my life was a mere 18 (I only weighed 80kg back then). Right now at 100kg I've done a max of 7 recently, but 11 in the past at this weight. I'm working on getting back to around 11, which I think for my weight is good enough perhaps, and I'm also moving along towards the front lever, which I think takes care of a whole other angle of force - at 90 degrees to chinups. And, I think both chinups and pullups have their place. I "get" that pullups are harder to do yada yada and so are a progression from chinups, but chinups handle the biceps more, which is a darn important muscle for a lot of reasons! I don't think dips really add much if you're already doing plenty of pullups and chinups. A dip is pretty much just doing a chinup with your forearms pointing downwards. I remember doing dips a lot in the past but never really feeling much difference between them and chinups, except that dips are easier to do! Good stuff though to be sure! Dips are great!
 

IcyROM

Level 2 Valued Member
For heavier people like myself at 100kg, those progressions get stretched out a lot longer. I remember a lightweight friend back in my teenage years doing 30 something chinups in a row while the most I had ever managed in my life was a mere 18 (I only weighed 80kg back then). Right now at 100kg I've done a max of 7 recently, but 11 in the past at this weight. I'm working on getting back to around 11, which I think for my weight is good enough perhaps, and I'm also moving along towards the front lever, which I think takes care of a whole other angle of force - at 90 degrees to chinups. And, I think both chinups and pullups have their place. I "get" that pullups are harder to do yada yada and so are a progression from chinups, but chinups handle the biceps more, which is a darn important muscle for a lot of reasons! I don't think dips really add much if you're already doing plenty of pullups and chinups. A dip is pretty much just doing a chinup with your forearms pointing downwards. I remember doing dips a lot in the past but never really feeling much difference between them and chinups, except that dips are easier to do! Good stuff though to be sure! Dips are great!
I think dropping fat will be very useful for fast progress. Otherwise yes, these harder exercises will take much longer to develop if you are very heavy.

The Front Lever is also very hard (although still easier than the One arm Chin up) so it might be good to drop fat for that exercise too.

Dips are very important because they develop the opposing muscles than pullups. Dips develop the triceps, the chest, the front deltoids and the internal rotator muscles of the rotator cuff. Pullups then train biceps, the lats, upper back and external rotators of the rotator cuff. Pairing a push (dip) with a pull (Pullup) is great because then you decrease any chance of imbalance.

I agree they are an excellent exercise as well!
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
I think dropping fat will be very useful for fast progress. Otherwise yes, these harder exercises will take much longer to develop if you are very heavy.

The Front Lever is also very hard (although still easier than the One arm Chin up) so it might be good to drop fat for that exercise too.

Dips are very important because they develop the opposing muscles than pullups. Dips develop the triceps, the chest, the front deltoids and the internal rotator muscles of the rotator cuff. Pullups then train biceps, the lats, upper back and external rotators of the rotator cuff. Pairing a push (dip) with a pull (Pullup) is great because then you decrease any chance of imbalance.

I agree they are an excellent exercise as well!
Ah okay, I'll keep using the parallel bars I made long ago using pipes.

The funny thing is that I don't want to lose weight. If I lose weight, I will lose strength, because my bodyweight will decrease and thus my load will decrease along with it for chinups and dips etc.
 
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IcyROM

Level 2 Valued Member
Ah okay, I'll keep using the parallel bars I made long ago using pipes.

The funny thing is that I don't want to lose weight. If I lose weight, I will lose strength, because my bodyweight will decrease and thus my load will decrease along with it for chinups and dips etc.
A lot of people who get strong at this movement (and are lean) will use added weight to build even more strength. Or you can just do harder variations. I think either way if you weigh less, it's possible to progress the exercise to be difficult for you once again
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
My vote goes to adding rings as your first piece of equipment. Almost by definition, they make pullups more shoulder friendly.

As to what bodyweight, just decide - don't let any single exercise decide for you. The entire idea of adjusting your bodyweight for exercise seems odd to me unless you particularly compete in weight-class sports. If you're happy with your current bodyweight, stay at it and train to get stronger, e.g., @Kozushi, smaller folks like me can and do add weight to make pullups more challenging. Me plus a 32 kg bell makes you. :)

-S-
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
My vote goes to adding rings as your first piece of equipment. Almost by definition, they make pullups more shoulder friendly.

As to what bodyweight, just decide - don't let any single exercise decide for you. The entire idea of adjusting your bodyweight for exercise seems odd to me unless you particularly compete in weight-class sports. If you're happy with your current bodyweight, stay at it and train to get stronger, e.g., @Kozushi, smaller folks like me can and do add weight to make pullups more challenging. Me plus a 32 kg bell makes you. :)

-S-
I stay at 100kg. That's what my appetite decides for me. I live without starving at 100kg. So, I have to work around that. If I exercise a lot I'm trim, and if not I'm a big fat blob.
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
My vote goes to adding rings as your first piece of equipment. Almost by definition, they make pullups more shoulder friendly.

As to what bodyweight, just decide - don't let any single exercise decide for you. The entire idea of adjusting your bodyweight for exercise seems odd to me unless you particularly compete in weight-class sports. If you're happy with your current bodyweight, stay at it and train to get stronger, e.g., @Kozushi, smaller folks like me can and do add weight to make pullups more challenging. Me plus a 32 kg bell makes you. :)

-S-
Okay, I'm getting the rings ASAP and putting them on my chinning bar. They'll also be good for my son to practice gymnastics moves with.
 

IcyROM

Level 2 Valued Member
Okay, I'm getting the rings ASAP and putting them on my chinning bar. They'll also be good for my son to practice gymnastics moves with.
Just a caution that pullups from rings on doorframe bar are very uncomfortable especially if tall. I have rings on my doorframe bar but for all pullups and front lever stuff I just use the bar. I guess is fine if you want to do Lsit pullups.

Dips are not good either because you will most likely hit the doorframe, especially if you are a bigger and wider people.

I think rings are great but since those seem to be the main exercises you are interest, I thought you should know they will not work very well on doorframe bar.
 
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