When Changing a Program Is, and Isn't, OK

Kozushi

> 3k Posts
@Kozushi, why oversimplify? My explanations were simple enough.

-S-
Your explanations have been extremely helpful. I am getting a lot more out of my workouts now understanding their rationale. It's about nuance - I know WHY I am on the programme I'm on and what the programme is for, so I can emphasize the programme's strong points. I am putting more power into my swings now, and I am not feeling weak that the swings take more time than the getups now that I know that the swings are 80% of the programme and the getups only 20%!
 

Kozushi

> 3k Posts
I thought TGUs were "better" than described here. I actually had it in my head (untested though) that TGUs could work as a stand alone programme of sorts alongside some kind of cardio. In fact it is the TGU part of S&S that makes me feel the most "strong" actually. I still haven't figured it all out yet, hahaha.
 

Steve Freides

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I thought TGUs were "better" than described here.
I think they're great - not sure what you mean by "better" - a heavy enough getup performed on a regular basis is excellent strength training, and mobility training, too, as an added bonus.

-S-
 

Kozushi

> 3k Posts
I think they're great - not sure what you mean by "better" - a heavy enough getup performed on a regular basis is excellent strength training, and mobility training, too, as an added bonus.

-S-
Okay, so I should phrase it as a question: would it be a viable strength training programme to focus on TGUs and cardio, but the TGUs being the strength factor?
 

Steve Freides

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Okay ... would it be a viable strength training programme to focus on TGUs and cardio, but the TGUs being the strength factor?
Viable, yes, provided we remember the lion and the whale story from S&S.

Interesting to contemplate the carryover for a bodyweight getup as compared to a 2.5 x bodyweight deadlift ....

-S-
 

Steve Freides

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@Kettlebelephant, no - it's a story in the printed S&S book. Having a busy day here but will try to find it and post a page number later, or perhaps someone can do that for me?

-S-
 

Kettlebelephant

> 1k Posts
I asked, because I don't recall reading something about a lion and a whale in S&S and that clip was the only time I remember Pavel talking about whales.
The search function on my kindle doesn't come up with anything when I search for "lion" or "whale".
Could it be that the printed version has more content than the kindle/e-book?
 

jef

I am a student of strength.
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That's a quote from Naked warrior. Something like: Who is stronger, a powerlifter or a weightlifter? A lion or shark? In water or on land?
 

Kozushi

> 3k Posts
You guys lost me here sorry. I've read Confucius and Plato, but this lion and whale parable I cannot fathom.

Apart from that - I can't see how an 88lbs getup compares at all to a 300lbs deadlift. The getup puts you through lots of great martial poses which you hold for endurance training, so as an addition to technique for fighting arts and of course for any sport really, since human body poses are pretty similar through all sports from basketball to fencing to surfing, the TGU makes lots of sense. So, a mobility exercise. But we get mobility exercises already in sports - not seeing how the TGU beats the deadlift if we're practicing sports along with the deadlifts.
 

Kozushi

> 3k Posts
Thank you. That was a good read!

Interestingly, and I think quite truly, having done S&S for two years did indeed give me the strength to do 5 deadlift reps of 1.5 bodyweight with minimal preparation training. Evidently, S&S did give me ridiculous amounts of strength, but with relatively light weights. I still see the TGUs as the centre of the programme, as they are the "strength" component, and as the cardio swings come first, there is significant cardio carryover to the TGU part of the workout. Now, having been forced to lay off S&S a bit due to shoulder strain from judo (it's part of judo to overuse your shoulders) the 2 sets of 5 reps a day deadlift plus kettlebell presses (ideas taken from Power To The People) does seem to be taking my strength significantly further. The deadlift has a lot in common with the TGU. The way I deadlift involves holding it up for as long as possible, to get the same feeling as with TGUs which is "time under tension".
 

Antti

> 4k Posts
Thank you. That was a good read!

Interestingly, and I think quite truly, having done S&S for two years did indeed give me the strength to do 5 deadlift reps of 1.5 bodyweight with minimal preparation training. Evidently, S&S did give me ridiculous amounts of strength, but with relatively light weights. I still see the TGUs as the centre of the programme, as they are the "strength" component, and as the cardio swings come first, there is significant cardio carryover to the TGU part of the workout. Now, having been forced to lay off S&S a bit due to shoulder strain from judo (it's part of judo to overuse your shoulders) the 2 sets of 5 reps a day deadlift plus kettlebell presses (ideas taken from Power To The People) does seem to be taking my strength significantly further. The deadlift has a lot in common with the TGU. The way I deadlift involves holding it up for as long as possible, to get the same feeling as with TGUs which is "time under tension".
I wouldn't call the swings cardio. I think it's clearly wrong. In my book, the swings are about power, which is just one facet of strength.
 

Kozushi

> 3k Posts
I wouldn't call the swings cardio. I think it's clearly wrong. In my book, the swings are about power, which is just one facet of strength.
Yes, power and cardio. It certainly works. By playing with 32 and 40kg kettlebells for a few years, my absolute strength for deadlifts is well into the 300lbs range, let alone other things.
 

Kozushi

> 3k Posts
Funny. After two years following SF I finally understand the first post on this thread, and it seems obvious and easy to me now, like second nature. This goes to show that either I'm real dumb, or that lifting weights is not at all a simple skill to understand in regards to theory!
 
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Steve Freides

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One question. Is S&S simple for newbies?
Simple but not easy.

It's a fine program for someone new to lifting but in that case, as in all cases, quality instruction, preferably from a StrongFirst-certified instructor, is recommend although not required.

-S-
 
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