all posts post new thread

Other/Mixed When Changing a Program Is, and Isn't, OK

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)
To be honest, it is not that complicated for newbies. When you follow the program outline in the book, things could not be easier to perform. For me, I had to watch YouTube videos to understand the get up. Once I found the basic form, I was off & running. Swings are easy to watch and mirror. It is when you finally find that snap of the hips is when things come together.

Once you understand the program, and have some time with the kettlebell, then things get interesting. You finally notice the "float" that many refer to in their posts. You finally understand why you don't have to have a death grip on the kettlebell, the straight wrist in get ups makes sense, you discover a wobble in your get up that you can tighten up with a little more focus and patience. Or, my personal favorite, the last two get ups feel stronger and more stable than the first three......yeah, WTH indeed.

You get the idea, or you will soon enough......welcome to the forum!

One question. Is S&S simple for newbies?
 
Neither the 1h swing nor the TGU are easy movements. They are both tricky, lopsided movements that involve challenges to your balance and in the TGU a lot of different postures. Of course, this is what makes the program work - you work out your whole body through just these two movements that you do to near exhaustion.

I'd guess that the PTTP SF program is the one more for the raw newbie. Also, I think SF has a new book out that promotes your choice of 2 barbell moves.
 
this is what makes the program work - you work out your whole body through just these two movements that you do to near exhaustion.

S&S is not intended to be to near exhaustion. You should feel "recharged" and have some gas left in the tank. That's why you can train with it daily.

I'd guess that the PTTP SF program is the one more for the raw newbie.

Yes, PTTP can be used by anyone who wants to train with a barbell.

Also, I think SF has a new book out that promotes your choice of 2 barbell moves.

"Choose your 2 to 5 lifts to get strong in: Squat, Bench Press, Deadlift, Military Press, Barbell Row."

Shop Books & DVDs online, Reload - Digital Download Book | StrongFirst
 
S&S is not intended to be to near exhaustion. You should feel "recharged" and have some gas left in the tank. That's why you can train with it daily.



Yes, PTTP can be used by anyone who wants to train with a barbell.



"Choose your 2 to 5 lifts to get strong in: Squat, Bench Press, Deadlift, Military Press, Barbell Row."

Shop Books & DVDs online, Reload - Digital Download Book | StrongFirst
Yes, I feel recharged, but I thought the point of doing 100 swings and 10 getups was to exhaust deeper layers of muscle thus prompting regeneration and strengthening. When I do S&S with the 40 swings 48 TGUs I feel exhausted though.
 
Yes, I feel recharged, but I thought the point of doing 100 swings and 10 getups was to exhaust deeper layers of muscle thus prompting regeneration and strengthening. When I do S&S with the 40 swings 48 TGUs I feel exhausted though.

Yeah, just semantics... I agree that it's good to work hard at it, and an S&S session shoudn't be easy. I was just pointing out the specific design of the S&S program is moderate daily training, therefore most people wouldn't use the term "to near exhaustion" which would imply perhaps a hard day that needs a day or more of recovery before doing again.
 
Yeah, just semantics... I agree that it's good to work hard at it, and an S&S session shoudn't be easy. I was just pointing out the specific design of the S&S program is moderate daily training, therefore most people wouldn't use the term "to near exhaustion" which would imply perhaps a hard day that needs a day or more of recovery before doing again.
Yes sorry, I also had forgotten that the gentleman asking the question is somewhat new to it, and my semantics were misleading.

Due to my S&S strength I had no problem shovelling the snow off the whole block just now. S&S strength is more practical I think than a lot of other strength systems since it's asymmetrical and power-endurance based. I don't feel tired or sore right now but I shovelled for an hour.

In a few years, I'll have Sinister. I can feel it coming. And I'll maintain it as my base of strength. I can't imagine getting to a point like that and then giving it up. S&S 4EVER.
 
Okay, so to oversimplify:

PTTP: raw strength
ROP: strength and conditioning
S&S: strength and endurance

@Kozushi, what is the difference between endurance and conditioning? I think maybe those terms might not have super specific definitions. If they don't, what did you mean?

(I'm interested because I'm doing S+S right now and would like to understand how it differs and basically what you meant.) :):)
 
Hello,

Interesting article about how to incorporate variety to keep progressing :

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Personally, one needs to change when the direction of the program fails to align with one's goals, the specific movements fail to provide sufficient carry over to untrained activities, if pre-existing or emerging injuries interfere, progress has completely stalled, or the program isn't mentally stimulating enough to continue.

But...I think the premise of the OP is more along lines of "when is it OK to monkey with program specifics".

To me, only when injury or equipment selection forces a change in exercise specifics. Otherwise, craft a new program or find pre-existing that does what you want.
 
@pet', without watching the 45 minute video, can you tell us how this relates to the original post here about changing StrongFirst programs, and also possibly to Pavel's most recent article?

Thanks.

-S-
 
Hello,

I did not post it especially regarding StrongFirst, but more from a general standpoint.

As far as the video goes, we may change a program when:
- we have a decrease in performance or when we reach a plateau
- we do not reach the goal at the end of the program
- we do a too complex program (varying weight, volume, number of days, etc...) so we are not able to explain the results (good or bad) anymore
- we do not have a deep "why": we have to have a clear goal to pick up the right program
- we have a program which is not adapated to our goal. Usually, we understand that afterwards
- we want to learn something new. In this case, we usually have to start from the very beginning. This is the "white belt mentality"
- we get inflammation, injury or overtraining (loss of appetite, chronic fatigue, feeling "negative", plateau)
- we have to progress. the signal is when the routine is getting too easy

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
I did not post it especially regarding StrongFirst, but more from a general standpoint.

As far as the video goes, we may change a program when:
- we have a decrease in performance or when we reach a plateau
- we do not reach the goal at the end of the program
- we do a too complex program (varying weight, volume, number of days, etc...) so we are not able to explain the results (good or bad) anymore
- we do not have a deep "why": we have to have a clear goal to pick up the right program
- we have a program which is not adapated to our goal. Usually, we understand that afterwards
- we want to learn something new. In this case, we usually have to start from the very beginning. This is the "white belt mentality"
- we get inflammation, injury or overtraining (loss of appetite, chronic fatigue, feeling "negative", plateau)
- we have to progress. the signal is when the routine is getting too easy
I would argue, or at least discuss in detail, some of those.

"- we have a decrease in performance or when we reach a plateau"

Just a recent example from my own training - I was following a program, and one week I went backward, failing a rep, stopping there, and ending up with the opposite of my goal of increased volume with a heavy weight. My choice was to think a lot about my form and try to do better, and I did - new PR because the proverbial light bulb went off for me and I figured out something that, had I not been lifting fairly heavy for me, I wouldn't have discovered.

"- we do not reach the goal at the end of the program
- we do a too complex program (varying weight, volume, number of days, etc...) so we are not able to explain the results (good or bad) anymore
- we do not have a deep "why": we have to have a clear goal to pick up the right program
- we have a program which is not adapated to our goal. Usually, we understand that afterwards"

These are all indicative of a poor program or a program inappropriate to our goals. Yes, one could certainly say those things happening is a reason to change the program, but a larger rethinking than just "change the program" ought to be in order in such cases.

-S-
 
I wish that would fit on a t-shirt. If it would, I'd wear it.

-S-
I like the fact that I wrestle (judo) so I can test out how strong I am relative to other people all the time. The guys who always train balanced with symmetrical loads face problems and so do those who only train maximum strength and not strength-endurance. The bench press is pretty useless for wrestling - limp legs hanging over the side of a chair - nope! Ain't gonna do it in a match. Mobility counts for a lot, and being mobile depends on asymmetrical load strength and also endurance-strength.
 
Hello,

+1 @Kozushi
A baseline of bipedal / symetrical strength (DL, squats, etc...) is necessary do develop limit strength. Nonetheless, this "raw strength" has to have a transfer to the activity. We need to train for specifics, if one is looking for better performance. As soon as your sport requires a certain dose of unipedal move (combat sport, trail, etc...) asymetrical loads and single limb moves (lunges, pistols, oa push ups, etc...) must be part of the training program. Most of the sportsmen who have a baseline of strength but who build upon them usually perform "better than average".

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
I like the fact that I wrestle (judo) so I can test out how strong I am relative to other people all the time. The guys who always train balanced with symmetrical loads face problems and so do those who only train maximum strength and not strength-endurance. The bench press is pretty useless for wrestling - limp legs hanging over the side of a chair - nope! Ain't gonna do it in a match. Mobility counts for a lot, and being mobile depends on asymmetrical load strength and also endurance-strength.

Have you ever had coaching for the bench press, read about the technique, or actually trained the lift? Or seen how useful it is for athletes, whether you're a sprinter or a shot putter or a football player or what?

And I'm afraid this isn't a singular case on the forum, and I'm sad for it.
 
Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)
Back
Top Bottom