Which program offers the best overall strength and injury prevention for life/sports?

Discussion in 'Kettlebell' started by Dayz, Jul 21, 2019.

  1. Dayz

    Dayz Double-Digit Post Count

    Pretty much the title. I am interested in which program bullet-proofs you the most for life, whether it's for manual labour and yard work; staving off old age; injury prevention for sports; being resilient in some great environmental catastrophe, and so on.

    I assume S&S, as the TGU takes you through so many ranges of motion and angles. But RoP probably develops more overall strength, thanks to the press and variety days. What about the new Q&D program? Heck, even NW might get a mention.
    Kozushi likes this.
  2. Mark Limbaga

    Mark Limbaga Quadruple-Digit Post Count Certified Instructor

    Any program which allows you to maintain and comply with the Zatsiorsky rules of strength (as heavy as possible as often as possible as fresh as possible)
  3. Chrisdavisjr

    Chrisdavisjr Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    @Dayz There's always a trade-off: "Little and often, and heavy sometimes" seems to be what works best for longevity.

    S&S is a good one as it builds a great deal of physical resilience without any significant risk of injury (poor technique and general carelessness notwithstanding). It's also flexible and time-efficient so you can have a life outside of the gym (or wherever it is you like to train).

    Ultimately, nothing will make you invincible and people who take strength work to its extremes do tend to get injured (although there aren't quite as many crippled former champion powerlifters and weightlifters as such statemets would lead you to expect), however neglecting development/maintenance of physical strength will also lead to injuries.

    It's understandable wanting to get the most bang for your buck when it comes to strength training, especially once you reach old age, however there's a lot to be said for just doing something rather than perhaps obsessing over how to make the absolute best choice when it comes to training efficiency and efficacy. Find something you enjoy doing that will toughen you up but hopefully not kill you and keep at it.

    Enjoyment is important: There's no point busting your hump doing something you can't stand in the vain hope you'll stand a slightly better chance of surviving the apocalypse; a meteorite to the head or an atom bomb will probably still kill you whether you can deadlift 500lbs or not.
    WxHerk, Nate, Lee and 2 others like this.
  4. Jake Steinmann

    Jake Steinmann Double-Digit Post Count

    I’m reminded of something my father once told me about martial arts that applies here

    If there was one perfect move/style/whatever that always worked perfectly, we’d all just do that. The fact that there’s variation suggests one perfect thing doesn’t exist.

    Staving off the effects of age seems to mostly be about continuing to be active in some fashion. Doing yard work will maintain your ability to do yard work

    Surviving the apocalypse is going to be more about who you know and what skills you have than anything else. A thousand pound deadlift won’t stop you from dying of an abscessed tooth.
  5. Bro Mo

    Bro Mo Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    I do feel that many MMA fighters gravitate to muay thai and jiu jitsu though indicating to me that minimizing down to two really good things can be combined to achieve a heck of a lot.

    I am comfortable saying S&S is the only thing I would do if my goal was "life". Mastering two really good movements would achieve a heck of a lot.
    Dayz likes this.
  6. piratebum

    piratebum Triple-Digit Post Count

    As a 12 year grappler on the other side of 50 with several orthopedic issues S&S has checked all the boxes and made ALL the difference for me on and off the mats.

    Honorable mention strong endurance. Also have done 2 weeks alternating S&S and PTTP and have gotten nice results.
    WxHerk, Kozushi and Dayz like this.
  7. Snowman

    Snowman Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    @Mark Limbaga's statement sums it up pretty well. To look at it from the opposite direction, I can injure anyone, regardless of the exercises their doing, by overloading them on training volume, limiting rest days, depriving them of sleep, and feeding them lots of pro-inflammatory junk food.

    The best long-term program is the one that works the whole body in the manner that Mark pointed out, and ideally takes your ego out of the equation.

    I've been into A+A style ballistics for a few years, S&S is clearly an excellent program for steady/safe progress, and easy strength barbell work always seems to surprise people with how good they feel and how much progress they make.
  8. LightningFast

    LightningFast Double-Digit Post Count

    What's the best occupation? I am thinking of short hours, big salary, not too challenging, but intellectually appealing, but not overly complex, not too physical, but not completely sedentary either. Something with no risk, physical or litigation. Something that doesn't take long to learn. Please let me know.
  9. Oscar

    Oscar Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    IMO, the best approach for those goals is to set goals and achieve them doing different programs. For instance, achieve Simple, then 2xBW deadlift, then the splits, then the snatch test, then run a marathon. Then Solid (Simple with 40 kg), and so on.
    Abdul-Rasheed and Antti like this.
  10. Kozushi

    Kozushi More than 2500 posts

    You missed wrestling in that list.
  11. Kozushi

    Kozushi More than 2500 posts

    The best program is walking. Walk at least for an hour every time and get out every day if you can. This covers everything you really need as far as the legs go, and the legs are about half your body. For core and arms you should do some kind of push and some kind of pull. Pushups and bodyweight rows are alright, or chinups. Still, movement is more than just this stuff. I'd suggest getting involved in some kind of sport that comprises chaotic movement to some degree, so "rucking" or "hiking" instead of just walking on even terrain, doing some Karate or Jiu-jitsu (judo and wrestling are more demanding I think, so I won't recommend them here.) This is also where fitness classes can help - they get you moving in a variety of ways. Of course S&S has the swing & TGU to cover pretty much every kind of movement. The ROP seems to comprise quite a lot of stuff too (didn't do much of it though so can't say exactly.)

    But if we're talking solo training to handle "life". Either S&S or similar (any good program devised for solo training at home), or walking with some kind of push and pull like dips and chinups.
  12. Nate

    Nate Triple-Digit Post Count

    Move well -> Move well often -> Move well under load often.

    But not so much that you screw anything up.
    Abdul-Rasheed and Bunn like this.
  13. Steve W.

    Steve W. Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    Definitely the original Russian Kettlebell Challenge.

    It will give you raw power, android work capacity, and an immortal's ability to absorb physical punishment.

    You will:
    -- Get really, really nasty - with a commando's wiry strength, the explosive agility of a tiger and the stamina of a world-class ironman!
    -- Develop steel tendons and ligaments - and a whiplash power to match!
    -- Effortlessly absorb ballistic shocks - and laugh as you shrug off the hardest hits your opponent can muster!
    -- Go ape on your enemies - with gorilla shoulders and tree-swinging traps!

    [Actual quotes from the book and ad copy, including the exclamation points!!!]
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2019
    WxHerk, Abdul-Rasheed and Steve A like this.
  14. Dayz

    Dayz Double-Digit Post Count

    Thanks for the replies everyone. I feel like most were a bit mocking but that's okayROFL

    I guess I was after the best GPP program, that's a better way of wording it. I'll keep at S&S and look into Q&D out of curiosity. Cheers
    DrFierce, Kozushi and Chrisdavisjr like this.
  15. Mark Limbaga

    Mark Limbaga Quadruple-Digit Post Count Certified Instructor

    most, if not all of Pavel's work builds a solid GPP base.. Others just focus more on development of other physical aspects in a more in-depth manner
    Dayz likes this.
  16. Pavel Macek

    Pavel Macek More than 2500 posts Master Instructor

    My personal favorite combo consist of:

    - joint mobility maintenance + movement (Flexible Steel + Original Strength) - daily
    - simple strength program (such as S&S, RS&S, PTTP!, ROP, Easy Strength, Q&D... ) - 3-4 times a week, or GTG
    - StrongFirst RESILIENT - 2x/week
    - stretching (Flexible Steel) - 2x-4x/week
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2019
    Dayz, WxHerk and Milan Hrubý like this.
  17. Kozushi

    Kozushi More than 2500 posts

    I haven't found anything to replace S&S. It has mobility, all-round strength and cardio all in one, and it's scalable to your own needs.
    Lee and Dayz like this.
  18. Steve Freides

    Steve Freides Dir. of Community Engagement Senior Instructor

    The OP asks a legitimate question to start a discussion. As others have observed, we need to know more and one person's ideal program may not be another's.

    And to answer your question, sarcastic though it was, about the ideal occupation, talk to people who work for themselves - that includes me. What you're "thinking" of has nothing to do with my answer. I love what I do, which is teach and play music. It's taken me a lifetime to learn what I now know and I will continue learning, being both student and teacher, for the rest of my life. I work long hours, don't get paid much and have never had a paid vacation, it's always a challenge, it's complex, it's physical, and as both performer and teacher, there is always a risk of making a mistake, and even a risk of getting sued.

  19. Kozushi

    Kozushi More than 2500 posts

    There are of course a variety of ways to skin the exercise cat (including the skin the cat exercise of course too if you like.) The Pavel programs focus on generally speaking two moves to cover your whole body (or in the case of Naked warrior almost your whole body with advice on how to reach the missing bits.) ROP is snatch and military press; S&S is swing and TGU; PTTP is deadlift and side press (with skipping recommended for cardio), NW is pistol and one arm one leg pushup (with deadlifts or swings to supplement). We however find many SF approved/written articles on this site with advice on other moves and programs. Pavel's programs seem unique especially due to the two move focus. There are of course many very strong and fit people out there who train more than just two moves and aren't any the worse for it.

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