Old Forum Who is doing S&S with 40kg?

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FlyingPig

Level 2 Valued Member
Don't want to start a new thread so might as well update this one saying I have decided to take a break from S&S. I can reach the goals with a 40kg consistently so unless I buy the Beast, I feel like I have reached a point of diminishing returns.

Faisal got me thinking by mentioning KB Strong and since I am approaching 2 years of consistent kettlebell training, I think I have earned the right to work with double bells. I am now doing Geoff Neupert's "The Long Haul" complex with double 16's (aimed at fat loss), and after 1 week on it I can say it is BRUTAL. Never knew a miserable 16 can humble you so much...

I'm thinking now that I have built up some decent strength, this programme can help me to lean out again a bit more. It is a very different way of training with kettlebells and I can't say I enjoy it as much as S&S, but it's the results that count. Alternating easy strength style programmes with more intense complexes makes sense too.

We'll see where we are in 8 weeks time, at which point I might get another 24kg and focus on some double 24 strength work.
 

Rickard

Level 4 Valued Member
" I can’t say I enjoy it as much as S&S, but it’s the results that count. "

I've often found myself using this type of argument for a training cycle. Training mustn't always be fun.

 

Good luck FP!
 

Al Ciampa

Level 7 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
Rickard/Pig,

Actually, after my Service of must do this and that, physically (I loved every minute of it), I say (for me), "F**k it ... I'm going to enjoy every minute of my training".  I'll always do what I have to do, but ...

Which brings me to other thoughts, of which Mark briefly discussed a while back ... yet to be properly martialed in my mind.
 

Rickard

Level 4 Valued Member
Al,

I always enjoy the feeling afterwards and in the end I've come to enjoy every type of training I've done. But several times I've started with the idea that results come before fun. It's a state of mind.
 

Michael Corrales

Level 3 Valued Member
FP-  Awesome and GREAT accomplishment!

I got a Bull Dog delivered a couple weeks back and tried a TGU...wow...that's a HUGE jump from 32kg for me.  Am not even close to 1 get up.  Maybe  intimidated with the big 8kg increase.  I'll get there I know, and will work into TGU's... SLOWLY.

I'm working in 32kg for swings now, 60 of my 100 swing reps today.  And can hit 32kg x's 10 reps for TGU on most days.

Just curious if you are willing to share. What is your height and weight now that you mastered the 40kg Bull Dog with S&S?

ps-  Was thinking of cycling in 2-3 weeks of KB Strong's "STRONG!" program with double KB front squats per Geoff's recent email about a minimalist program to break things up then get back to my S&S work trying to get that 40kg squared away.

Got a 1 wk Asia bus trip coming up.  Will push S&S really hard until then.  And while traveling do bodyweight and jump rope, run drills.  Then when back prob 2 weeks of double front squat STRONG! before getting back to my 32kg+ S&S  :]
 

Michael Corrales

Level 3 Valued Member
pss- FP...my $0.02.  Get The Beast someday sooner than later and get that "Sinister" goal done.  You seem to have tons of momentum.  Might as well crush the program :]

But totally understand the need for a change of pace, etc.  Just seems like you are on an amazing path.
 

FlyingPig

Level 2 Valued Member
Michael, it was a huge jump for me too but you'd be surprised how quickly you get used to it. Swinging it was never really an issue (apart from getting the time down to under 5 mins, which just came naturally) but a proper TGU was trickier, and my wrist was the weakest link. Even the Goblet squat during the warm-up was a lot harder but here too, practice makes perfect and it is no big deal now.

Probably some good momentum indeed but I had a good basis, I think, having done Kettlebell Burn, ROP, Dan John's 10,000 swing challenge (the latter was great for my grip). Also, I did get stronger but I put on weight. I was about 85kg last year and am hovering around 90kg now. For those who haven't experienced the benefits of the metric system and the French Revolution, that is 187lbs and 200lbs respectively (183cm, or 6 ft tall) ;) Ideally, I'd like to get back to 85kg but I don't really care about numbers, although it would be nice to lose a bit of flab.

As for the enjoying part of the training, it's an interesting discussion. What always attracted me about the StrongFirst philosophy is the "practice" approach and it doing away with the silly "no pain, no gain" mentality of most gym rats. Funny anecdote: my wife, after seeing me almost collapse on the floor after a gruelling 2min30s complex, commented "good, you're working out properly now, I thought you were slacking a bit in the last few months" (not understanding at all any of the concepts we take for granted and completely forgetting how I almost dropped the 40kg on my head initially and can get the weight up with no problem now). That said, I think it will be beneficial to push the boat out a bit for 9 weeks. Bus bench and park bench and all that... think I've been in the park for too long but it's nice and green there...

 
 

Rickard

Level 4 Valued Member
About the TGU,

I really felt like starting a tribute to TGU thread. It's such a badass movement. But considering that I'm doing S&S with just the 40kg I felt it would fit well in here.

 

First off I've never done a movement that makes me sweat as much as the TGU. And nothing that I feel wipes out my entire body so fast and at the same time makes me feel STRONG afterwards. I swear that 5/5 TGU with the 40kg is harder than 5x5 with 140kg in the BSQ.

 

About the sweat; my wife walked in on me after doing my get ups, looks at the floor and asks me if the waterbottle I'm drinking from is leaking.

I once said that S&S was the program I wished for when I started KBs. I'm doing manual labour atm again, I'm inbetween studying here, and the S&S protocol has managed to make me better at it than before my 2 year break from it. I think it might be THE baseline protocol to use. I think I underappreciated it when it came out. The secret as always lies in doing not thinking too much.

I'm humbeled by these daily get ups.
 

brian d

Level 5 Valued Member
I just thought I'd resurrect this thread for a couple of reasons.

One, I'm curious what FlyingPig and others who made this jump a year ago are doing now.  Getting strong with other programs?  Becoming sinister?

And two, I've just started this journey myself.  I got my 40kg two weeks ago and have really enjoyed adding it into some sets (currently 0-2 with the swings and 2-3 with the get ups).  I think I waited a little longer than is ideal to make this jump, but that is probably better than going too soon.  The practice with the new weight has reminded me of a few things I heard from this community before.

Heavy weights are instructive.  I would never say to jump up in weight if you are not ready, but if you think you are, at least try a couple sets with the new weight and then go back to the old weight.  It is enlightening, and you will no doubt notice some things you have been missing.  I've mostly made adjustments to really little things, a tightening of an oblique, a slightly different set of the shoulder, etc., but it's helping me move better and the 24 and 32kg have never felt like this before.

Nothing tells your body to get stronger like a heavier weight.  Like I said, I think I was using the 32kg for a bit too long.  My body felt great and I loved the workout, but I did not notice how much I was going through the motions rather than getting stronger.  The new weight has really awakened my muscles.  They're harder and stronger, and I'm hungrier and a little more tired, too.  I know from what others said, this weight demands keeping an extra eye on recovery, so I'm working on that a lot and trying to hold back too much increase too fast.

So yeah, curious what others are experiencing when S and S gets heavy (for you, whatever that heavy may be).
 

Krzysztof Wasniewski

Level 1 Valued Member
I have been doing S&S with a 40 kg, too, for the last 6 weeks. I "graduated" from 32 kg. There is an interesting thing to do: alternate sessions with the 40 kg and the 32 kg. When I started doing that, I suddenly discovered a completely new kind of speed and explosiveness in my swing. I think it has given me a faster progress with the 40 kg, too, but it is too early to say anything for sure.
 

Marino

Level 5 Valued Member
Brian

I moved up to the 40kg in October last year.  Since then I've been trying out a few different programs such as the 10,000 swing challenge, PTTP and a program aimed at increasing my strength in pistols, pull ups and presses.  I was on a mission to get to the sinister goals before doing anything else, but I found my progress stalling with the 40kg and I decided I wanted some 'quick win goals' and some variety.

I keep coming back to S&S though.  Having spent 18 months slowly moving up through the heavier kettlebells I do not want to lose that progress.  S&S has been one program I can do which works around a biceps tear and pulled hamstring I had last year.  It's also a complete program - just doing strength training negatively impacts on conditioning for example - and needs minimal equipment (unlike deadlifts and pull-ups), thinking or planning.

Having departed from my single-minded mission to get sinister and trying some other things, my S&S has slowly progressed.  I am not yet quite at the sinister goals but I am able to do swings and get-ups with the 48. although I mix it up with 28s, 32s, 40s and 44s depending on how I feel and what bell I have with me.  Slow steady progress and long rests in between sets are the name of the game; these are lessons that I have learn and re-learn regularly.

 
 

CDG1223

Level 1 Valued Member
Flyingpig- I'm curious as to what your deadlift is and how it's increased as you've progressed. Has anything else noticeably increased performance wise?

 
 

brian d

Level 5 Valued Member
I posted this earlier in the morning, but apparently it got deleted with the style change. So if it's a double post, that's why.

@Krzysztof, Thanks for the tip. I've heard of others alternating the 40 and 32 as well. Did you start doing it while you were mixing sets of the 32 and 40 (if you did it that way)? Or did you wait until you could do a full session with the 40 before alternating? So far I have been mixing the 40 in for almost all sessions, but every 4th or 5th one I'll do it all with the 32.

@David, I've been following your progress on other threads. It looks like you've got a lot of good stuff going for you. Bummer on the injuries, though. I had a couple of non-training related injuries last year, and S and S was always the first thing I could do.
 

Krzysztof Wasniewski

Level 1 Valued Member
@Brian, I alternate 40 kg and 32 kg in separate sessions. In most sessions, I practice with a 40 kg, from 80 to 180 swings plus 10 - 24 TGUs. Once, or twice a week, I practice with the 32 kg, with a focus on speed. In the 32 sessions, I frequently replace the TGU with goblet squat, and shoulder presses, just for diversifying a bit and for patterning my posture. I started alternating 40 kg and 32 kg quite intuitively, when I felt that my shoulders and traps are a little overloaded with the 40 kg.
 

brian d

Level 5 Valued Member
That's cool, Krzysztof. It sounds like you are somewhat following Pavel's article on wave loading to get from Simple to Sinister? I also like the idea adding a little something extra/different on the light 32 days. I think I'll wait awhile before I try something like that, as the slow mixing of 32 and 40 seems to be working for me right now. It is interesting to see how many people say they need to be a bit more open and creative as the weights get heavier and heavier. Thanks for adding your insights.
 

FlyingPig

Level 2 Valued Member
Brian, it's been a while since I've done S&S. I probably would go all the way to Sinister if I had access to a 48kg, but instead I chose to focus on progressing to double kb work. I did Kettlebell Strong for a good 5 months (double 24), mixed with the One programme. Towards the end of One I was swinging 32+40kg combined for 20 minutes (I made up my own thing to keep progressing and adjusted the load so that I could focus on explosiveness and still get many reps in and weight moved).
Christopher, I don't have access to a barbell so I can't say what my deadlift is.
Either way, for me personally I feel like I am "strong enough" and I am pursuing other goals now such as leaning out again. To that end I am walking a lot every day and sprinting every week, while focusing on diet. I only do some heavy TGU's and some front squats a few times a week, nothing more. I'll lose strength but I'm not too bothered about numbers, just about feeling and being healthy and resilient.
 

brian d

Level 5 Valued Member
Thanks for chiming in FlyingPig. It's good to hear from you.

I know what you mean about that next bell. When I felt really comfortable on the 32, I couldn't justify getting the 40 yet when I had so much I could do with all my other bells. So I did a lot of other workouts. Now, over a year later I finally broke down and got the 40. It'll probably take me 5 years to get to the 48.

I really like your general outlook of staying healthy and strong all over. I hope to have that for decades to come. And that's awesome you're out walking so much. I am very fortunate to be able to walk to and from work, grocery store, library, etc. And I think that daily walking does a lot for my body. So many people overlook it.
 
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