Old Forum Why do girevoy athletes arch their back SO MUCH when racking the bells?

[Pnigro]

Isn't that bad for their backs?

Look at this picture: <a title="http://i.imgur.com/Mevge99.png" href="http://i.imgur.com/Mevge99.png">http://i.imgur.com/Mevge99.png</a>

And I've seen even more pronounced examples.

We are told that we should try to keep our spine neutral under load, but these guys arch their backs a lot all the time.

Why is that?

 

[Pnigro]

Another picture:

<a title="http://img.breakingmuscle.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/full_width/images/bydate/20140305/450px-olehilikakettlebell.jpg" href="http://img.breakingmuscle.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/full_width/images/bydate/20140305/450px-olehilikakettlebell.jpg">http://img.breakingmuscle.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/full_width/images/bydate/20140305/450px-olehilikakettlebell.jpg</a>

 

[AceecA]

It's to get the bells over their base of support (the feet), so they don't have to use as much muscular tension in the rack to hold the bells in place.

The numbers they put up are crazy, and one of the ways they do it is to maximize positions of support as well as efficient movement.

Its a sport, I couldn't speak on the safety, but anyone who plays a sport assumes a certain amount of risk.

 

[Boicis]

In a good rack position, the elbows stay on the hips (the exact place depends on the build and flexibility of the athlete). The spine should not be loaded at all. It may even form an "S" shape. In the very beginning of the jerk, the kettlebells are thrown up with the leg and hip power, and the spine is straightened and gets impacted when you lean under the weight.

I practice this movement many years and do not have any problem - when I went for a massage it was noted that my back is really good for a 45 year old office desk rat.

Of course, this position works for the ballistic jerk where you have a momentum and flight of the bells. With presses, I would not recommend it.

 

[selfcritical]

As above- no load on the spine= no danger.  If i tried to jerk or long cycle with a "pressing" rack, my back would be in SIGNIFICANTLY more pain.

 

[Pnigro]

Then why does Pavel says here that arching the back during bench press is “very hard for the lower back” and that competitors understand the "risk". The spine isn’t loaded, right?

I’m just trying to understand.

My intention is not to create arguments.

 

[Pnigro]

By the way, I don't understand the "spine is not loaded" affirmation in the girevoy example either.

How exactly can I hold two 32kgs kettlebells (140 lbs) above the hip without loading the spine? Maybe the spine is not loaded in the same way as being completely straight, but it's loaded nonetheless.

 

[Joel the Savage]

Pnigro->
In the rack position the weight goes straight through the body (think of it as a straight line down)
the elbows rest on the belt so they are not holding the weight up so much on their chest.
Its all about conserving energy.

http://img.breakingmuscle.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/full_width/images/bydate/201408/training-jerksequencecopy.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfVWiBvf2hw

 

[Boicis]

Pnigro,

Try to rack two kettlebells yourself on the hipbone. If you have enough flexibility, you could stay in rack position a long time and not feel spine impacts.

Or you can rack a heavy kettlebell on your hipbone - your spine also will not feel it.

The arch is needed to counterbalance the bells. Arching in the bench press is a totally different game.

 

[Pnigro]

The book is unclear.

If it wasn't for this forum I would still be trying to gradually reduce the rest periods, compromising my explosiveness in the last 4 sets or so.

While it is true that the book doesn't advocate actively compressing rests, it does say that one should only move up in weight when time standards are met and we are able to do them strongly. This is ultimately interpeted as being able to meet the standards during regular training days as there is no  mention whatsoever of saving it for a test day.

For me personally 7 minutes feel very natural for the swings. It's been that way for months. I can only do 5 minutes if I clock myself and actively compress the rest periods.

Bottom line: I think the book should be revised to clarify this concept, otherwise it is inevitable that most people will start compressing the rest periods at some point.

 

[Pnigro]

Oops, wrong thread.

 

[Pavel]

Pnigro, in the GS jerk, this alignment is needed to rest between reps.  When done correctly, the elbows sink into the pelvis and the spine is not even loaded.  And a lot of extension comes from the hips.

When the spine starts moving to produce and reduce the force in the drive and catch, it is something spine biomechanists frown upon—yet properly coached GS athletes without preexisting back problems usually survive just fine.  A risk justified for a competitor—just like the risk of a big BP arch.