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Other/Mixed Why not vary exercises day to day?

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
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Hello,

One lift a day can also be worth considering (squat, press, pull, hinge). In this case, for each day, we can do plenty of variations:
-> squat: front, back, pistol, etc...
-> hinge: swings, cleans, etc...
-> press: ovh, bent press, etc...
etc...

In this case, the volume per session has to be "higher" than usual to secure progression from week to week.

We can also incoporate a complex session or variety or "conditioning" (A+A, LSD, etc...)

This may be an idea among all the other very good which already have been mentioned to get both variety and skills.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Hello,

One lift a day can also be worth considering

That's exactly what I do currently. I'm doing OLAD 3.2 from Geoff Neupert, which is MWF alternating LCCJ, FSQ and DSN respectively. On TTh, I also perform very low volume pull ups and bent presses. It has worked wonders for my goals.
 
CrossFit is largely an energy system training methodology using multiple modalities. One of the cons to CrossFit is not revisiting movements frequently enough to cause adaptations in this movements.

At elite levels, athletes target specific training and use WODs less frequently or as a smaller percentage of training volume.

Many very good programs utilize conjugation to make progress and what you outline above looks just fine if consistently revisiting a few variants. I see your schedule as:
  • Press 3x/wk
  • Squat 2x/wk
  • Hinge 2x/wk
An issue that often arises with buffet style programming is conflicting adaptations. Be sure to target similar adaptations and use multiple methods to achieve it. For example don't try to target pushups to failure one day and 1RM overhead press another as they will likely not keep the same ball moving in the same direction.

Some strength skills simply require a lot of volume and only hitting that specific once per week won't move the needle. I think you may observe that with low volume Naked Warrior.
A very good point was raised here.

Ultimately the best crossfitters do not train crossfit. They don't do WoDs.

They will have a weekly schedule. Perhaps some aerobic capacity work every morning rotating between running, rowing, assualt bike and ski erg. With particular attention on whichever they are weak at.

They will have weightlifting or gymnastic sessions to work on specific skills.

3/4 times a week They will be doing their strength work.

As they get closer to their events they will add in WoDs and HIIT as they see fit. The aerobic work will be phased out and so will strength work.

As a beginner your priority is to get the highest level of adaptation for the least amount of effort. To get as strong and as well conditioned as possible.

So pretty much full body strength training 3 days a week hitting the big compound lifts.

3 days a week easy runs for 30mins each.

Can it really be that simple? Yes it can.
 
There are a number of reasons why you should have variety.

1. You should vary your workouts to address a variety of movement patterns. For example, horizontal and vertical, pull and push, twist (most neglected) etc. It may be wise to stop and focus when you identify lagging areas of strength and focus on that for a month. I recently did a great neck strength/OS based program from Aleks Salkin and my pullups got better.

2. You can vary your energy system focus. Press twice a week but snatch every Friday.

3. You can cycle through a number of programs over the course of the year. This allows you to focus on one skill at a time (SF) but also address a number of skills and help those who have program hopping problems or trying to achieve everything at once. Having a seasonal approach is a good example with Winter heavy and higher caloric intake, summer high volume bodyweight, moving more, and some caloric reduction to lose weight.

4. There is evidence that programs can get diminishing returns after about 6 weeks or so. Powerlifters plan for these cycles through periodization. Pavel has even said that going hard for more than two weeks can be counterproductive. Extreme specialization towards one skill set over a longer period of time 6 months for example is something that may not be efficient for those with general physical preparation goals but might be necessary for competitors. Fight camps only last about this long for the same reason. Powerlifters time their peaks carefully before competition.

5. In other words, if you change your time frame from week to week to 4-6 week blocks, you can achieve both focus and positive variety over the course of a year. 30 day challenges can be productive this way.

6. Another approach for basic GPP is to work on a skill until intermediate level and then when you stall to move to a new skill. There are diminishing returns to even strength when you reach a certain point. Moving from a 2.2 to a 2.5 bodyweight deadlift is hard but might make little difference except to competitors. The time would probably be better spent on working toward or achieving a one arm pushup or handstand.

7. You can have the same or opposite/different movement patterns/modalities, but include a variety of rep ranges and weights. High volume pushups with deadlift for example. This will give a sense of variety even though it is still a minimalist program. You can have one main resistance focus combined with a GTG focus. Pressing KB + pistol squat progressions.

There are many reasons to add variety that do not contravene StrongFirst principles and best practices if we just change the timeframe.
 
So I'm wondering what's the logic behind doing the same exercises weeks at a time as opposed to putting a huge variety into one week.
Continuity of training is valuable.
Variety is overrated. It's useful at first, inevitable at some point, and eventually necessary. It's just not as worth it as it may seem, for some beginners.

A basic idea is that from a morphological perspective, in order to move from one morphological state to another, from weak to strong, or small to big, one must accumulate a lot of changes at the cellular level. Particular cells in particular muscle bellies must change and grow. Change is metabolically expensive and nature is always seeking the lowest energy level, so in order to elicit change the cost must be justified by exposure to a stressor intense enough, frequently enough to justify the change.

As pavel opines in the quick and the Dead, for many types of training 2x / week is the minimum dose, and 4x / week is the point of diminishing returns. So, mere variation on the day may be fruitful if you're exposing the muscles you want to change to the stressors 2x / week .

E.g. I ran a daily program that was snatch swing and press. On average I would snatch, about 2x / week , swing about 2x / week , and press about 2x / week. But since the snatch is kinda like a swing with a fast press at the end, really, my shoulders were getting that exposure 4x / week. And my hips were also getting that exposure about 4x / week. Same protocol and modality. Grease the groove and kettlebells.

But to move from modality to modality, and from protocol to protocol, one could squander a bit of time in a way, such that what if the minimum stressor dose threshold was not met on the basis of frequency. Did a workout happen? Maybe. Was there some exertion? Yes. But way some adaptation being accumulated to last beyond the scope of that workout? Maybe. Maybe not.

For some training methods, 1x / week the cells are less likely to be induced to make morphological changes like increased mitochondria, or increased myosin, or hypertrophy. If it doesn't happen often enough, or isn't intense enough the body may not spend additional resources on making the muscles stronger.

Sticking with daily loading from swings and getups day in, day out, for months will induce cellular adaptation which will be so extensive that that bigger stronger muscles will actually stay that way if you take some time off.

It's about the accumulation of the desired adaptation(s).
 
Variety is overrated.
Variety A Key Component

A well formulated Training Program that incorporates varying exercise is a key component in the development of Limit Strength, Power, Speed and Hypertrophy/Bodybuilding.

Changes in exercises are more effective than in loading schemes to improve muscle strength

Abstract

This study investigated the effects of varying strength exercises and/or loading scheme on muscle cross-sectional area (CSA) and maximum strength after four strength training loading schemes: constant intensity and constant exercise (CICE), constant intensity and varied exercise (CIVE), varied intensity and constant exercise (VICE), varied intensity and varied exercise (VIVE). Forty-nine individuals were allocated into five groups: CICE, CIVE, VICE, VIVE, and control group (C). Experimental groups underwent a twice a week training for 12 weeks. Squat 1RM was assessed at baseline and after the training period. Whole quadriceps muscle and its heads CSA were also obtained pre- and post-training. The whole quadriceps CSA increased significantly (p<0.05) in all of the experimental groups from pre- to post-test in both the right and left legs: CICE: 11.6% and 12.0%; CIVE: 11.6% and 12.2%; VICE: 9.5% e 9.3% and VIVE: 9.9% and 11.6%, respectively. The CIVE and VIVE groups presented hypertrophy in all of the quadriceps muscle heads (p<0.05), while the CICE and VICE groups did not present hypertrophy in the vastus medialis and rectus femoris (RF), and in the RF muscles, respectively (p>0.05). The CIVE group had greater strength increments than the other training groups (Effect size confidence limit of the difference -ESCLdiff CICE: 1.41 - 1.56; VICE: 2.13 - 2.28; VIVE: 0.59 - 0.75). Our findings suggest: a) CIVE is more efficient to produce strength gains for physically active individuals; b) as long as the training intensity reaches an alleged threshold, muscle hypertrophy is similar regardless of the training intensity and exercise variation.

It's useful at first, inevitable at some point, and eventually necessary.

Constantly Varying Exercises

Constantly varying exercises is fundamental for ensuring progress. In other words, it need to be a staple of all training programs.

It is driven by...

The General Adaptation Syndrome

There are three phases.

Simply put, "You either adapt or die".

Once adaptation occurs in training, progress stops.

Secondly, utilizing exercises that are similar in nature to one that you want to increase strength or size in is also fundamental to progress.

That is one of the reasons Bodybuilder rotate different exercise for the same muscles. It elicit growth from a different angle.

For strength training, employing an exercise that is similar in nature to the movement you want to increase, enables a lifter to strength the weak point.

Deadlift Example

1) Good Mornings

This is an Ascending Strength Curve Movement, similar in nature to the Deadlift; which is also an Ascending Strength Curve Movement.

The Overloading occurs in the bottom part both movements.

Thus, for Deadlifters who have a problem with breaking the weight off the floor, Good Morning are effective.

2) 45 Degree Back/Hip Extensions

This is a Bell Shaped Strength Curve Movement.

The Overload occurs in the middle part of the movement.

Thus, a Deadlift who has trouble in the knee can strength it with this movement.

3) 90 Degree Back/Hip Extension

This is a Descending Strength Curve Movement.

This movement increase strength for Deadlifters who have a hard time with the top end, lockout.

The Downside of Varying Exercises

The downside of Varying Exercises is that Technique is not developed in a movement or lift.

Technique Training

The key to developing Technique in a lift or movement is practice.

It is optimally developed when it is...

1) Practiced first or on a day set aside for it.

2) When performed with load of 85% of 1 Repetition Max for Single Repetition Sets.

3) The number or Single Repetition Sets are determined by Muscle Fatigue.

Once Muscle Fatigue sets in, the Exercise is terminated.

Continuing in a fatigued state reinforce poor technique.

The key to increasing Maximum Strength in a Lift is...

Auxiliary Exercises

Auxiliary Exercise that involve the same muscle group and movement pattern of a lift is the optimal method of increasing Strength in a lift that doesn't affect the Technique of the Lift.

Auxiliary Exercise are constantly changed; rotated in and out of a well written Periodization Training Cycle.

Post 8

Much of this was addressed in Post 8, listed above.

It's just not as worth it as it may seem, for some beginners.

Beginner Novice Lifters

It depends on the Novice Lifer's objective.
 
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I look at it as necessary but also one has to "get good" at a movement pattern to load it to potential, esp ballistic. In can take many sessions to dig deep.

But yeah, within between 4 and 16 weeks some variety is a huge help and a great hedge against repetitive use unjury. It reliably induces a training effect as the body adapts, the "new PR" effect.
 
This isn’t an argument against minimalism but here’s two cents:

When you only train particular patterns and/or postures, you develop greater strength and control within them, which is the intended goal. However, take the spine for instance. If you train your body to hinge at the hips and always keep the spine neutral, that pattern and “range of motion” (for the spine itself) gets strong, but what happens when you have to flex the spine outside of neutral? Is there control, strength? Obviously if you’re setting up to lift a lot of weight on a deadlift or something a neutral spine is going to be what you go for. But what about in day to day life?

How about the knees? When we load them for strength training, we keep the knee centered over the foot, but (as I am scratching the surface of) when we are walking, running, jumping, skiing, etc… the knee does by no means always track over the center of the foot.

Now, I’m not suggested adding 100lbs to your back and doing deep knee circles or whatever, but when I think of variety, I think of training angles and directions that aren’t so linear. I focus on pushing, pulling, squatting/lunging, and hinging. I’m trying to add more directions to my core training. When I do pushing, for instance, I do push-ups, pike push-ups, dips, and I use a Viking attachment for landmine and z presses. The attachment allows me to train neutral grip, pronated, wide, and I can even press with my palms like a HSPU. So it really ends up being “same but different.” I do the same grip rotation with my pull-ups (wide, pronated, chin up, neutral).

So my two cents is: focus on the big patterns or lifts you want to increase, and keep “prehab-level” training going in all the angles you don’t focus on.
 
So my two cents is: focus on the big patterns or lifts you want to increase, and keep “prehab-level” training going in all the angles you don’t focus on.
Like @Brett Jones describes, there's the main dish, and there's the spices. Keep the main dish simple and stay with a selection of the proven big compound lifts that keep delivering results, as long as they are delivering results for you. Vary the spices for all the other effects.
 
1. You should vary your workouts to address a variety of movement patterns. For example, horizontal and vertical, pull and push, twist (most neglected) etc. It may be wise to stop and focus when you identify lagging areas of strength and focus on that for a month. I recently did a great neck strength/OS based program from Aleks Salkin and my pullups got better.
Depends what your goals are.
2. You can vary your energy system focus. Press twice a week but snatch every Friday.
Yes you could.
3. You can cycle through a number of programs over the course of the year. This allows you to focus on one skill at a time (SF) but also address a number of skills and help those who have program hopping problems or trying to achieve everything at once. Having a seasonal approach is a good example with Winter heavy and higher caloric intake, summer high volume bodyweight, moving more, and some caloric reduction to lose weight.
You could in theory.
4. There is evidence that programs can get diminishing returns after about 6 weeks or so. Powerlifters plan for these cycles through periodization. Pavel has even said that going hard for more than two weeks can be counterproductive. Extreme specialization towards one skill set over a longer period of time 6 months for example is something that may not be efficient for those with general physical preparation goals but might be necessary for competitors. Fight camps only last about this long for the same reason. Powerlifters time their peaks carefully before competition.
The law of biological accommodation kicks in after 3 weeks. Hence why both Louie Simmons and Boris Sheiko (2 of the best powerlifting coaches in history) use a maximised approach.
5. In other words, if you change your time frame from week to week to 4-6 week blocks, you can achieve both focus and positive variety over the course of a year. 30 day challenges can be productive this way.
Again...you could.
6. Another approach for basic GPP is to work on a skill until intermediate level and then when you stall to move to a new skill. There are diminishing returns to even strength when you reach a certain point. Moving from a 2.2 to a 2.5 bodyweight deadlift is hard but might make little difference except to competitors. The time would probably be better spent on working toward or achieving a one arm pushup or handstand.
This is true and where the USSR and Louie Simmons would rotate movements and variables in some way.
7. You can have the same or opposite/different movement patterns/modalities, but include a variety of rep ranges and weights. High volume pushups with deadlift for example. This will give a sense of variety even though it is still a minimalist program. You can have one main resistance focus combined with a GTG focus. Pressing KB + pistol squat progressions.
You aren't wrong about any of the above but there is something you may not have thought about.

Why bother if you can still linearly progress?

Let's use the forum as our sample. What % of the forum do you think have a 2 times bodyweight squat? It's a strength feat easily achievable with simple linear periodization and commitment.

Variation is a great tool but if you haven't built a quality base and I mean a QUALITY base then why bother wasting mental resources needlessly complicating things?

In addition the end goal is a critical factor. If my goal was to compete in powerlifting then I'm not going to bother swimming or cycling.

If my end goal is to run a marathon then you aren't going to be wasting time trying to get a 2-3 times bodyweight squat.

You're also going to build your base with a lot of easy runs and nothing else. Because you can keep progressing off just s few easy runs and letting mileage organically grow.

This has all the potential of having trainees majoring in the minors when they haven't built a foundation and hit simple KPIs.
 
At the top of that list, put an explanation of what a KPI is.(y)

I find this a fascinating conversation.
 
Am keen to learn more about simple KPIs is there a list of "foundation KPIs" somehere for us novice trainees ?
What constitutes as a KPI (key performance indicator) will be dictated by the goal.

So having a singular set in stone list of KPIs for novices isn't going to be possible. If your goal is to run a sun 20min 5km then the KPI of a novice weightlifter isn't even worth considering.

Even GPP has to be somewhat specific to the end goal.
 
At the top of that list, put an explanation of what a KPI is.(y)

I know we use a lot of abbreviations here, mostly just as convenient shorthand.

But in my professional life as an educator, any abbreviation or acronym just means "something irrelevant that I have to do in addition to my actual job."
 
wondering what's the logic behind doing the same exercises weeks at a time as opposed to putting a huge variety into one week.
Jack of all trades, is master at none :)

You will be bad at all of it. Mediocre at best. And from that you will not receive sufficient stimuli to get Strong.

I saw the 54 replies but couldn't resist to add mine.
 
Jack of all trades, is master at none :)

You will be bad at all of it. Mediocre at best. And from that you will not receive sufficient stimuli to get Strong.

I saw the 54 replies but couldn't resist to add mine.

The full saying:
"a jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one."

Not posted as an endorsement of variety for its own sake.
 
Hello,

IMHO, it is possible to vary from day to day, as long as technique remains "good enough" to keep progressing while staying injury-free / healthy. Obviously, one may reach a plateau faster than someone who focuses more on only 2 or 3 moves. But he may be more "welll rounded". The same logic can be applied for energy systems.

Despite what I said, it does not prevent from building a solid base (endurance, strength) and then to work on specific areas.

Steve Backshall, Aldo Kane, Ross Edgley, Fergus Crawley, to name a few, vary their routines on a daily basis, even if they have a baseline and adapt their training in function of the task or trip to come. Some people who have jobs based on uncertainty (LEO, firefighters, military, OCR racers, etc...). They just can not rely on only a few moves. At the end of the day, they have to be "good enough" to perform.

On SF blog, there are different articles which have a lot of moving pieces. Here are a few of them

As long as the practice makes a "better version of onself" both physically and mentally then...

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Hello,

IMHO, it is possible to vary from day to day, as long as technique remains "good enough" to keep progressing while staying injury-free / healthy...

As long as the practice makes a "better version of onself" both physically and mentally then...

Kind regards,

Pet'
My experience - if you stick with a basic push/ pull/ hing/ squat format, you could probably rotate through a very wide menu of exercises and make great progress. As an example your press could be barbell OHP, next session dumbell OHP, next session sandbag OHP and so on.

Lots of ways to get variety that build on each other but isn't going to happen by accident.
 
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