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Other/Mixed Why partial reps for ST fibers

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
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rickyw

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Anybody know why Pavel advocates partial reps to train slow twitch? I’ve read through the StrongFirst articles on this but I can’t seem to find an explanation. Maybe I’ve missed it somewhere?

Thanks
 
From my memory of Strong Endurance, I beleive it has to do with restricted blood flow, creating the temporary mild-to-moderate acidocis where the muscle can't easily flush it out during the exercise.
 
From my memory of Strong Endurance, I beleive it has to do with restricted blood flow, creating the temporary mild-to-moderate acidocis where the muscle can't easily flush it out during the exercise.
Interesting. Thank you Anna!
 
Sure... looking at my notes, a few interesting tidbits, paraphrased from Pavel:
  • Find the most miserable position and move through it for 30-60 seconds
  • Breathe behind the shield
  • 1 exercise every 3-5 minutes
  • Done to failure is OK, because there are no safely issues, and no neurological concern
  • Possible exercises: push-up, band press-back, goblet squat, step-up, partial hack squat, diamond close-grip push-up, a lot of bodybuilding exercises
Someone asked the question, would the get-up work? Pavel said probably not because the target muscles change so much. But you could select a particular phase of the get-up and use it.

With these protocols, you are trying to create a mild acidosis, "Acid can be your friend if applied correctly."

You are depleting free creatine. And the "plumbing" is plugged up -- blood vessels shut. So unlike high-rep exercise where blood comes in and replenishes CP but acid keeps accumulating, the slow movement is self limiting and enforces use of the slow fibers.

So with the push-up, for example, in a normal push-up when you press up to lockout - bam, circulation resumes, and the fast fibers take over. In this version you don't go to lockout, just move slowly back and forth in that "most miserable position."

The goal is to deplete CP in the slow fibers, increase strength. This automatically increases endurance, because "slow fibers come pre-equipped with mitochondria" (some joke about "and a sunroof and heated seats too" ;) )

In the demo, if I'm reading my notes right, a guy who could do about 28 strict pull-ups was using 4 sets of 10 slow pull-ups, with about a minute active rest between them. An option was to repeat these sets again after resting for 10 minutes or more, so the body perceives a separate workout.

This training is great for wrestling, climbing, and anything else where you have to exhibit endurance in a semi-static position.

Pavel says it is "somewhat dull, but extremely productive. It's not the most exciting way to train, but it's exciting when you can suddenly do more pull-ups."

Hope that's not too much Strong Endurance mojo to give away. But it's really great stuff, and that's only a very small piece of the seminar!

Plus I think most of this is in the slow-twitch articles... just adds a bit of perspective. @Steve Freides will set me straight if I need to take some of this out.
 
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In the demo, if I'm reading my notes right, a guy who could do about 28 strict pull-ups was using 4 sets of 10 slow pull-ups, with about a minute active rest between them.
Only one minute rest, not 5-10 minutes between sets?
 
Only one minute rest, not 5-10 minutes between sets?

Looks like you can do it both ways, but I can't provide the specific details in the SE template. Basically a set can be one rep of 30-60 seconds with the long rest between each, or you can do a few series of a few shorter ones of 30 sec each with 30 sec rest between each (enough to restore some CP), and then have the long rest between the series (to prevent acidosis).

An interesting footnote is to do the "to refusal" in the first option. In the second option your would only do the last one in the set "to refusal." "In Russian literature, when all-out sets of bodybuilding exercises are prescribed, one is instructed to do the lift "to refusal." Contemplate the difference between refusal and failure."
 
Looks like you can do it both ways, but I can't provide the specific details in the SE template. Basically a set can be one rep of 30-60 seconds with the long rest between each, or you can do a few series of a few shorter ones of 30 sec each with 30 sec rest between each (enough to restore some CP), and then have the long rest between the series (to prevent acidosis).

An interesting footnote is to do the "to refusal" in the first option. In the second option your would only do the last one in the set "to refusal." "In Russian literature, when all-out sets of bodybuilding exercises are prescribed, one is instructed to do the lift "to refusal." Contemplate the difference between refusal and failure."
I like to do slow weighted pull-ups sometimes, I'm wondering if one slow weighted rep or several unweighted reps would matter. It seems that TUT is the issue here, so long as you can stress the muscle for 30 seconds or so the difference would be minimal and the weighting of the pull-up would enhance acid production. And what about occlusion training?
 
An alternative is high repetition sets (>20 reps) taken to failure, with 30 seconds rest between sets. You end up in the same place. The idea is to create lots of metabolic fatigue with low tension reps and lots of time under tension. Slow twitch fibers are very fatigue resistant so they take lots of metabolic stress to fatigue.
 
An alternative is high repetition sets (>20 reps) taken to failure, with 30 seconds rest between sets. You end up in the same place. The idea is to create lots of metabolic fatigue with low tension reps and lots of time under tension. Slow twitch fibers are very fatigue resistant so they take lots of metabolic stress to fatigue.

Sounds like if you eat well and do this you'll pump up like crazy, hence the term 'pump artist' bodybuilding. I rarely did high rep sets when bodybuilding but my 10 rep supersets (bicep/tricep) I had down to a science, they would pump up my arms so much I could barely splash water on my face at the water fountain if needed.
 
An alternative is high repetition sets (>20 reps) taken to failure, with 30 seconds rest between sets
How many sets?

Interesting that in the slow twitch articles on this blog 5-10 minutes between sets is recommended to fully clear H+. Is this truly necessary? Below is the quote from the blog article:

“It is the radical five- to ten-minute rest period that gives Selouyanov’s method its unique edge. Bodybuilders, when doing constant tension, peak contraction, and super slow reps, always rush the rest periods, chasing max pump (pump is a manifestation of H+ accumulation, by the way). Selouyanov’s research has demonstrated that while hydrogen ions are needed for a short period of time to unlock the muscle cell to anabolic hormones, they destroy the muscle if allowed to stick around too long. If you remember your chemistry, you will realize that an ion is a charged particle, ready to reach and damage. Hence the extreme five- to ten-minute rest that makes all the difference.

Professor states that active rest — walking around, “fast and loose” drills — is far superior to passively sitting around. Movement allows H+ to circulate and get cleared more rapidly by multiple muscle groups.”
 
I like to do slow weighted pull-ups sometimes, I'm wondering if one slow weighted rep or several unweighted reps would matter. It seems that TUT is the issue here, so long as you can stress the muscle for 30 seconds or so the difference would be minimal and the weighting of the pull-up would enhance acid production. And what about occlusion training?

I didn't realize it at the time, but as I've begun to track time of sets better, have come to realize I have a 60-90 second timeframe for extended exertion at 70-85% RM. I can go very close to failure to 10 reps, increase load and use a drop set and my rep count correlates better with TUT than with load. Eg. 100lbs = 10 reps, but 140/100lbs = 6/4 reps drop set with no more than a 1rep count for a break. I still cannot account for this but is very consistent.

I honestly do not know how one would isolate ST fibers but it would have to be darn near aerobic intensity. Yes, CrP will deplete but alactic glycolysis can run indefinitely till fuel runs out- these are the same muscle fibers. Good news the ST clock in first and clock out last.
 
Yes, CrP will deplete but alactic glycolysis can run indefinitely till fuel runs out- these are the same muscle fibers
I believe the reasoning on the way around this is the partial rep as @Anna C stated:
And the "plumbing" is plugged up -- blood vessels shut. So unlike high-rep exercise where blood comes in and replenishes CP but acid keeps accumulating, the slow movement is self limiting and enforces use of the slow fibers.
But Mr Miller, you make me wonder; how does starving a slow twitch muscle fiber of oxygen while using it cause growth? You would think (as you alluded to) it would grow better being used under more aerobic conditions. 30-60 seconds of partial reps is very anaerobic still.
 
I'm interesred in how this pans out, whatever the mechanism. Have been using a similar strategy to improve positional endurance and have gotten good results.
My thinking was that the same fibers use CrP and glucose interchangeably, blocking them in won't really effect fiber type usage as both types lose ability to generate tension in an acidic environment.
Lots to speculate, size principle says low-load, high volume, but studies don't show definite fiber type response to different loading schemes.
None of that matters if it gives the desired outcome more effectively than other strategies.
 
How many sets?

Interesting that in the slow twitch articles on this blog 5-10 minutes between sets is recommended to fully clear H+. Is this truly necessary? Below is the quote from the blog article:

“It is the radical five- to ten-minute rest period that gives Selouyanov’s method its unique edge. Bodybuilders, when doing constant tension, peak contraction, and super slow reps, always rush the rest periods, chasing max pump (pump is a manifestation of H+ accumulation, by the way). Selouyanov’s research has demonstrated that while hydrogen ions are needed for a short period of time to unlock the muscle cell to anabolic hormones, they destroy the muscle if allowed to stick around too long. If you remember your chemistry, you will realize that an ion is a charged particle, ready to reach and damage. Hence the extreme five- to ten-minute rest that makes all the difference.

Professor states that active rest — walking around, “fast and loose” drills — is far superior to passively sitting around. Movement allows H+ to circulate and get cleared more rapidly by multiple muscle groups.”

I am not familiar with Selouyanov's work at all so I can't comment on it. A good discussion of these issues can be found here:
(PDF) The Role of Fiber Types in Muscle Hypertrophy: Implications for Loading Strategies

The widely available research literature has not really nailed down the specifics yet. What is commonly practiced is 1-3 sets of 20ish repetitions to failure, with short rest periods after the normal heavy training. This is what seems to work with natural bodybuilders currently.
 
I am not familiar with Selouyanov's work at all so I can't comment on it. A good discussion of these issues can be found here:
(PDF) The Role of Fiber Types in Muscle Hypertrophy: Implications for Loading Strategies

The widely available research literature has not really nailed down the specifics yet. What is commonly practiced is 1-3 sets of 20ish repetitions to failure, with short rest periods after the normal heavy training. This is what seems to work with natural bodybuilders currently.

Thanks Mike, nice article. In practical day to day hypertrophy training my body adapts quickly to specific stimulus, drop sets for instance work for 2-3 sessions the I have to switch modes.
Higher rep training tends to give me a muscle ache feeling and dullness in contractile intensity during follow up work. I've used many different strategies but always seem to gravitate back to 10 reps while varying loads, TUT, intensity, exercises etc.
Same but different using the above strategy enabled me to build muscle consistently.
 
few decades ago, when I had been running a lot and started cycling a lot, I improved the cycling by doing sets of squats with my feet pedal-width apart, and accentuating (by slowing) the range of the squat that stressed the strongest part of the pedaling motion. I started at around 95lbs, 30 reps/day. When I got up to 40 reps, I added a little weight, went down to 30 reps again, and rinsed and repeated over and over. Really built hill-climbing ability (some power, but with a lot of endurance), and high speed rolling. Seems a little similar to what's being discussed, but maybe not.
 
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