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Barbell Why Powerlifters Struggle with Weightlifting

watchnerd

Level 8 Valued Member
Yeah, agreed. I feel that way about most social media S&C 'influencers'. Juji, Clarence, Eric Bugenhagen, etc. are all what, early-mid 30s?

Clarence might be late 20s, but, yeah.

He has a coaching practice, but I'd never hire him as a weightlifting coach.

Because:

a) He's supremely naturally gifted. Often brilliant athletes make for poor coaches.

b) Only competed as a kid, bombed out, got on sauce, never competed again.

c) No track record of successfully coaching others to weightlifting wins (that I know of)

d) Too big of an age gap between him and me

I don't know what these dudes are going to do for income down the road.
 

watchnerd

Level 8 Valued Member
@watchnerd @Anna C @MikeTheBear i always thought that first movement to learn is always front squat, then clean variations?

I think there are a lot of different approaches depending on where you're starting at.

When I first met Jim Schmitz, on the first day he said, "I want to see your back squat, front squat, deadlift, and press."

Which I then demonstrated for him.

Apparently I passed, as he he kind of grunted and didn't kick me out or give me a bunch of remedial work.

He handed me a binder that was the program and pointed out which parts were homework that I needed to do outside of practice sessions.
 

MikeTheBear

Level 7 Valued Member
If I'd had to start with only snatches, I'd probably have rage quit.

My guess is that some coaches start with the snatch for this very reason. Because the snatch is more technical and more difficult, at least for most people, starting with the snatch becomes a test of the lifter's commitment. If the lifter rage quits the first day, that's probably not the time of lifter the coach wants to deal with.
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Elite Certified Instructor
My guess is that some coaches start with the snatch for this very reason. Because the snatch is more technical and more difficult, at least for most people, starting with the snatch becomes a test of the lifter's commitment. If the lifter rage quits the first day, that's probably not the time of lifter the coach wants to deal with.
I hope this manner of coaching/teaching goes the way of the dinosaur.

-S-
 

watchnerd

Level 8 Valued Member
My guess is that some coaches start with the snatch for this very reason. Because the snatch is more technical and more difficult, at least for most people, starting with the snatch becomes a test of the lifter's commitment. If the lifter rage quits the first day, that's probably not the time of lifter the coach wants to deal with.

I've never heard a coach say anything like that.

I have heard the "snatch first" coaches advocate for it because the mobility requirements are greater and take longer.
 

Anna C

Level 9 Valued Member
Team Leader Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
Sinister
Looks like the next StrongFirst O-Lifting seminar will take this approach:


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The O-Lifting page link is presented a little different, but the lifts are the same. Except Jerk has dropped off again.

1669387531141.png
 

Boris Bachmann

Level 7 Valued Member
I have heard the "snatch first" coaches advocate for it because the mobility requirements are greater and take longer.
Yeah, if you can't or won't do front squats or overhead squats, good luck with the Olympic lifts.

It's scary how many times I've seen people (let's just call them football players) doing cleans or (let's just call them CFers) doing thrusters who couldn't do a proper front squat if their lives depended on it...
 

MikeTheBear

Level 7 Valued Member
I've never heard a coach say anything like that.
It was just a hunch on my part, but I wouldn't be surprised if some coaches have certain "rite of entry" tricks. Dan John has an old article about the overhead squat where he talks about a discus coach who wouldn't let any of hi throwers touch a discus until they could do 15 overhead squats with body weight. Although the example was meant to show the benefits of the overhead squat, you could tell from Dan's writing that this was somewhat of a rite of passage. A cocky guy with a big bench press and big biceps would not be able to complete this test without additional training. If our Bro with the Big Bench saw this requirement and said "I'm already jacked, I'm not going to waste my time on this BS requirement," the coach just weeded out a guy who probably wouldn't be very coachable.
 

MikeTheBear

Level 7 Valued Member
To answer the question "Which lift should be taught first?" here's I would do it.

I would start with the snatch. Having said that, I am by no means dogmatic. If someone such as Steve had a reason for wanting to learn the clean first, fine. But here's why I would start with the snatch.

- It's more difficult to learn. If a lifter gets the snatch right, learning the clean becomes much easier.
- Learning the overhead squat would already be built-in. For a lifter who really wants to learn the lifts and perhaps wants to compete at some point, I believe in teaching the full versions of the lifts, i.e. squat snatch and squat clean, on day one. Yes, it can be done. Teaching the full version of the snatch requires teaching the correct catch position in the bottom of the overhead squat, and when you teach a lifter the correct catch position in the bottom of the overhead squat, you've taught that lifter how to overhead squat. The lifter then has a chance to practice the overhead squat every time the lifter performs a snatch. I don't care if the lifter is only using a PVC pipe, the lifter should always catch the bar/PVC in the overhead squat position
- The snatch requires good technique. Any strong person can do a "power clean." It may look like a cheat reverse curl, but most gym bros would be able to get a barbell to their shoulders. Obviously, cheat reverse curls won't get you very far if you want to get into weightlifting, and a good coach would spot this error and correct it. However, if our gym bro decides to practice on his own time, he may unknowingly revert to this incorrect movement pattern. Even worse would be the guy who comes in, says "I already know hot to clean," and proceeds to do a cheat reverse curl. Now the coach has to undo all of this self teaching. The way to do that is to get the person to snatch. It's much harder to fake a snatch.
 
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