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Barbell Why Powerlifters Struggle with Weightlifting

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I’m not versed in either powerlifting (outside of a somewhat casual DL and squat practice) or weightlifting, but this was an interesting thread to read through.

Regarding teaching/learning and weeding out “less dedicated types:”

I spent my adolescence and early 20s doing a very traditional type of kung fu. I noticed over the years that the cocky, “tough guy” types rarely made it past the first few belts. I also spent a number of years practicing and teaching handstands/hand balance. When I taught at a calisthenics/gymnastics gym, we would somewhat regularly have new students come in who stated their goal as “muscles ups.” A lot of these students stopped showing up when they realized they had large mobility deficits and that the mobility would take a long time to develop. I was always especially impressed and motivated by the ones who came in day in day out and worked their butts off because they wanted the skills so bad.

All of these examples involve long-term, large investment endeavors. It seems to me, as a kind of weightlifting-outsider, that unless someone has a lot of “natural talent,” for simplicity’s sake, it takes a loooot of work to get decently good at it. I can see how some coaches wouldn’t want to spend all that time teaching someone only to have them quit. At the same time, coaching is a job, and if it pays it pays? I dunno. Just some rambling thoughts to add!
 
MikeTheBear said:
It was just a hunch on my part, but I wouldn't be surprised if some coaches have certain "rite of entry" tricks. Dan John has an old article about the overhead squat where he talks about a discus coach who wouldn't let any of hi throwers touch a discus until they could do 15 overhead squats with body weight. Although the example was meant to show the benefits of the overhead squat, you could tell from Dan's writing that this was somewhat of a rite of passage. A cocky guy with a big bench press and big biceps would not be able to complete this test without additional training. If our Bro with the Big Bench saw this requirement and said "I'm already jacked, I'm not going to waste my time on this BS requirement," the coach just weeded out a guy who probably wouldn't be very coachable.
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At the local or online level for weightlifting coaches trying to earn a living, they need pretty much all the business they can get.

I can't see them turning people away easily.

They're not highly salaried Division 1 S&C coaches with secure staff positions.

And most of the students coming in from gen pop will need a lot of foundational work -- that's just the reality they have to accept if they want to stay in business.
 
bluejeff said:
All of these examples involve long-term, large investment endeavors. It seems to me, as a kind of weightlifting-outsider, that unless someone has a lot of “natural talent,” for simplicity’s sake, it takes a loooot of work to get decently good at it. I can see how some coaches wouldn’t want to spend all that time teaching someone only to have them quit. At the same time, coaching is a job, and if it pays it pays? I dunno. Just some rambling thoughts to add!
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Much like gymnastics, there is a high correlation with elite weightlifters starting very young.

I've seen some pretty amazing videos of Chinese 10 year olds.
 
svencandy said:
If weightlifting is to be dropped from the Olympics, as seems to be the case, will it survive?
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I think so, though it will be even harder to draw young people into the sport, and USAW (and other countries' equivalents) will have to redefine their purpose and mission. I think there would still be local, state/regional, national, and world competitions even if there is no Olympic competition in the sport.

Pete L said:
And will we still call them the Olympic lifts?
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Yeah, that'll be a challenge... people in the sport generally call it "weightlifting" so that still works for those IN it... the problem comes in how do you differentiate what you do from "weight lifting" of the general sort when talking to people who are not in it. I tend to just say "I train and compete in the sport of weightlifting; snatch, and clean & jerk."

I am not sure how other countries and languages distinguish this or if they have this issue.
 
I remember Dan John saying in a podcast (I think) that if, on your very first day of training, you can't snatch the bar over your head and hold an overhead deep squat for 2 min you don't have the flexibility to compete in Weightlifting. That says a lot about the small % of people who can do the sport to an elite level. Where any dude with short limbs and/or the right mental disposition can powerlift.
 
solarbear said:
It surprises me that they are talking of dumping it at the Olympics.
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I'm glad they're talking of dumping it.

It's the only pressure the corrupt IWF seems to be responding to. Reforms of the rampant bribery culture that existed (and still does, but less) are badly needed.

Of course, that's not to say the IOC isn't also corrupt.
 
solarbear said:
I remember Dan John saying in a podcast (I think) that if, on your very first day of training, you can't snatch the bar over your head and hold an overhead deep squat for 2 min you don't have the flexibility to compete in Weightlifting. That says a lot about the small % of people who can do the sport to an elite level. Where any dude with short limbs and/or the right mental disposition can powerlift.
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Damn, I just tried timing myself and tapped out at 1:47.

Is it scaled for the over 50 crowd?

Something to work on....
 
solarbear said:
I remember Dan John saying in a podcast (I think) that if, on your very first day of training, you can't snatch the bar over your head and hold an overhead deep squat for 2 min you don't have the flexibility to compete in Weightlifting. That says a lot about the small % of people who can do the sport to an elite level. Where any dude with short limbs and/or the right mental disposition can powerlift.
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I have the utmost respect for Dan but I disagree. I am probably one of the least flexible and mobile people on the planet - a physical therapist even told me I had some of the poorest flexibility he had ever seen. I also have zero athletic ability - I was the last kid picked for team sports. I am able to overhead squat and front squat. For the overhead squat the key is you need to properly hold the bar. Unfortunately, many coaches do not correctly teach how to hold the bar. Crossfit teaches it completely wrong, BTW.

Don't get me wrong - some flexibility and mobility is necessary. For someone coming into the sports after spending years on the coach, some mobility work will be required. But don't let lack of mobility/flexibility be a deal breaker. If my fat, inflexible, and non-athletic a#@ can do it, anyone can.
 
MikeTheBear said:
Don't get me wrong - some flexibility and mobility is necessary. For someone coming into the sports after spending years on the coach, some mobility work will be required. But don't let lack of mobility/flexibility be a deal breaker. If my fat, inflexible, and non-athletic a#@ can do it, anyone can.
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He was talking about people who compete at an Olympic level, trying to explain how much of an elite sport it actually is, not necessarily your average athlete who wants to look and feel good. But to me that would indicate that if you need that much flexibility your average joe might find it very frustrating. If you got good joints and the right motivation, I can't imagine a better way to spend your exercise effort TBH.
 
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