Why You Should Not Be Running by Mark Rippetoe

Steve Freides

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Staff member
Senior Certified Instructor
I'm with Rif here - running at 12 min/mile would nearly kill me. I managed a 5k at 6:30/mile at age 45 or so, and anything slower than 8:30 or 9:00 would be "junk" miles for me.

-S-
 

Tim Randolph

Triple-Digit Post Count
Yes and that's why I like the talk test method. As your conditioning increases you can go faster but at the same RPE and probably the same heartrate
I will take this as a really good answer to my earlier question. If you can't pass the talk test at 10:00 minute miles, you should think about doing something else. Maffetone very much doesn't agree with this. He really pushes training at barely aerobic levels and claims it makes you faster. Didn't for me.
 
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Oscar

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
+1 @Kettlebelephant above. I think running is a basic skill that we have to keep on a checklist: If one cant run, then his/her body is not working as well as it should. Similar to bodyweight squatting and holding the bottom position, or many others basic skills. If we loose any of those habilities we should re-gain them and use them to keep them working.
 

Rif

More than 500 posts
Master Certified Instructor
+1 @Kettlebelephant above. I think running is a basic skill that we have to keep on a checklist: If one cant run, then his/her body is not working as well as it should. Similar to bodyweight squatting and holding the bottom position, or many others basic skills. If we loose any of those habilities we should re-gain them and use them to keep them working.
^ agree 100%
 

Shahaf Levin

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
and I would go one step futher and say that most people I see have very poor WALKING mechanics and ability. Most would be very hard press to walk 4 mph for any length of time. we literally need to walk before we run
One of the OS books (performance maybe) has section about it. They say running is great (and sprinting better), Just make sure you can walk properly before you start running....
 

mprevost

More than 500 posts
there's a difference to me between being able to run 7:30's for 5k and choosing to run at 10 min pace and not being able to run faster than 12 min miles. that's a lot of pounding and "up and down' forces on the knees and back. I've run fifty miles at 10 min pace and also ran a 42 min 10 k. Most of my training was done at 8 min per mile or 8:30 for the overdistance runs, and I was always trying to get faster for longer.
This was back in '70s and I didn't track heartrate but used the talk test to gauge my effort.

I've never seen running slow build a fast runner. One has to practice the skill of running fast to run fast imo.
But you also need the big base to handle it too.
Running is a sport and I think if one's gait mechanics aren't great long distances and high miles can really do some damage on the joints and the body
I've done lots of VO2 max testing and I always film runners during the test. I film from all sides and review the video in slow motion in a methodical way, starting at the head, then moving down to the feet. I noticed something interesting. Run gait always looked better at faster speeds. Posture typically improved, crossover gait was reduced, so was heel striking. Lots of things automatically cleaned up at faster speeds. It made me really appreciate the benefit of strides (think of these as 75% effort sprints with LOTS of recovery between sprints) as a tool to work on run gait. Especially strides done barefoot or in minimal shoes. I can see that doing these strides as your only running could serve as a basis for maintaining the functional (not fitness) ability to run if done frequently. It is sorta like goblet squats maintaining your squat pattern but not necessarily max strength.
 

Matts

More than 300 posts
"running" to me is a movement that is fast- it means both feet are off the ground for a time, and there's a strong pushoff. Depending on stride, I think it occurs for most at around an 8:00/mi pace, def'ly by 7:30/mi. pace. I call slower than that jogging, which can be a great cardio workout, but it's not really the same movement as real running. Slower than 10:00/mi or so, it gets to be shuffling. Still could be good cardio, but not too good for range of movement or joints, from what I've seen.

Here's an old pic of 3 guys "running"- I like it cause all 6 feet are way off the ground (and I beat the other 2 guys..)
https://sites.google.com/site/tombop/OldHeartTrek.jpg
 

Steve Freides

Forum Administrator
Staff member
Senior Certified Instructor
Maffetone ... really pushes training at barely aerobic levels and claims it makes you faster. Didn't for me.
I don't know if it makes you faster, but for health benefits, I do think it's sufficient. I find walking at a comfortable (read: not brisk, just out for a stroll) pace seems to help keep my resting pulse low. I walk at around 100 BPM which isn't my MAF heart rate of 118 but I still feel it does something for me. NB: I have no evidence to support my claim other than my subjective impression of my own health.

-S-
 

Tim Randolph

Triple-Digit Post Count
but for health benefits, I do think it's sufficient.
100% agree. Keeping your bpm's sub MAF really makes for a workout that leaves you fresh and it does build the base. My favorite way to use a treadmill now is to put use a nice 6-8% incline and walk briskly. It feels great and does improve my health. I just haven't found it makes me faster :)
 

mprevost

More than 500 posts
I don't know if it makes you faster, but for health benefits, I do think it's sufficient. I find walking at a comfortable (read: not brisk, just out for a stroll) pace seems to help keep my resting pulse low. I walk at around 100 BPM which isn't my MAF heart rate of 118 but I still feel it does something for me. NB: I have no evidence to support my claim other than my subjective impression of my own health.

-S-
You are correct. The evidence for this is quite robust. It is summarized very well here:

Quantity and Quality of Exercise for Developing and Maintain... : Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise
 

offwidth

More than 5000 posts
SF_cardio2.JPG
Same members database. This time those engaging in multiple cardio/conditioning activities...
 

offwidth

More than 5000 posts
In both cases we start to see risk climb at or around 72bpm. Isn't 72 more or less considered 'normal'? So it stands to reason I guess.
It was nice to see (and I guess not surprising) that our small sampling of SF members averaged 57.
 
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