Other/Mixed Yoga and deadlifting do not like each other

[rickyw]

@the hansenator , that sounds exactly like Stuart McGill in a stem talk podcast that was posted here awhile ago.

In general, I think Stuart's literature is very good, though it's good to remember his specialty is low back disorders. And I do agree with him and that people really don't need to work on stretching their lumbar spines. You can safely mobilize the lumbar spine a couple of ways (the prone pressup and the cat camel are two of these and my patients get renditions of these) but to spend a lot of time cranking on your lumbar spine to loosen it up is probably not going to be a good thing. Usually if the lumbar spine is "tight" or painful it's because the hips shoulders and or thoracic spine are not loose enough so the lumbar spine moves extra to compensate (or gets injured by moving too much) and the surrounding musculature starts to guard or spasm. I'm speaking generally here, there are many reasons for low back pain.

 

[Matts]

@Wesker I didn't know you played golf- how's your ballstriking? I think that's the most important thing to develop, more than swing speed or strength. Being able to keep the club on the ball longer and getting good ball compression on the sweet spot makes the best shot. For me, having the obliques from one-arm swings, the cross-body (opposite hip/shoulder) coordination from get-ups, and hip and shoulder mobility has helped my game much more than lifting. ymmv...

 

[Wesker11]

@Wesker I didn't know you played golf- how's your ballstriking? I think that's the most important thing to develop, more than swing speed or strength. Being able to keep the club on the ball longer and getting good ball compression on the sweet spot makes the best shot. For me, having the obliques from one-arm swings, the cross-body (opposite hip/shoulder) coordination from get-ups, and hip and shoulder mobility has helped my game much more than lifting. ymmv...

I am a decent ball striker. I recently got fitted for a new driver and averaged around 1.48 to 1.5 smash factor and I can hit a real 3 iron.

I believe in learning to "hit" the ball first, then learning to control it. Hitting the ball around the course at 250 is just not very fun imo and puts you at a major disadvantage. It really isn't that hard to take your swing above 110 if you have proper technique. I've taken my swing from 95-100 to 110-115. It really is a different game when you can carry 270.

Edit: Also, I guess I should note. I've taken my deadlift up to 365 and I've never felt like it had any effects on my swing. I've never had back pain coming off the course. Maybe bent presses are the secret.

I wonder what McGill would say about the bent press.

 

[Matts]

Sounds like you're doing great- I'd guess the bent press gives your game much the same benefits S&S gives mine. Your deadlift is very respectable- I think strong people can stay around 350-400 DL and be plenty strong for life, but without getting overly specialized. Start trying to go above 500, and you're going to limit other things. If you want to concentrate on golf, I'd stay away from bench press and barbell squats, but do goblet squats for hip mobility. I'd guess McGill would like bent press, as it builds strength in all the stabilizers, and keeps thoracic turning open. Like anything, though, if you went super heavy on it, it'd eventually affect your game.

 

[rickyw]

I'd guess McGill would like bent press, as it builds strength in all the stabilizers, and keeps thoracic turning open. Like anything, though, if you went super heavy on it, it'd eventually affect your game.

I have been wanting to ask him this question. My guess...if you don't sidebend the spine, he may like it. But then again he may not since you cannot just stop rotation at T12 during the bent press and keep the lumbar spine straight no matter how well your pressurize your midsection, though a pressurized midsection will protect you to a degree. The spine rotates as a whole. A rotated lumbar spine disengages half of the annular fibers of the disc, making it inherently weaker. Spinal movement under load is generally no bueno

I see a lot of videos people post on here and they are definitely sidebending the lumbar spine closer to the end of the move because they don't have the range in the hips. He won't like that.

Call me crazy...just my current thoughts

 

[Stuart Elliott]

But then again he may not since you cannot just stop rotation at T12 during the bent press and keep the lumbar spine straight no matter how well your pressurize your midsection, though a pressurized midsection will protect you to a degree. The spine rotates as a whole. A rotated lumbar spine disengages half of the annular fibers of the disc, making it inherently weaker. Spinal movement under load is generally no bueno

I've just started BP and noticed a niggle,not really a pain in this region on my right side. I wasn't aware of the risk to the spine until viewing the video, time to stop and evaluate my sessions.

 

[Steve Freides]

I have been wanting to ask him this question. My guess...if you don't sidebend the spine, he may like it. But then again he may not since you cannot just stop rotation at T12 during the bent press and keep the lumbar spine straight no matter how well your pressurize your midsection, though a pressurized midsection will protect you to a degree. The spine rotates as a whole. A rotated lumbar spine disengages half of the annular fibers of the disc, making it inherently weaker. Spinal movement under load is generally no bueno

I see a lot of videos people post on here and they are definitely sidebending the lumbar spine closer to the end of the move because they don't have the range in the hips. He won't like that.

The bent press and also the windmill - these are definitely YMMV (your mileage may vary) things for people with back issues. I will relate my story of learning the windmill - I tried, for a few weeks at a time, with a light weight, and couldn't make progress without tweaking my herniated disc. I have a laterally herniated L4-L5. But I persevered, and eventually I figured out how to pressurize my midsection and how to minimize any lumbar rotation in favor of movement at the hip and the upper back, and now I love my windmills.

I don't mean to suggest that everyone can or should do this, but I took a few tries, leaving several months between, until on maybe the third or fourth go-round, I was able to perform the movement.

OTOH, if thoracic spine rotation causes problems, the bent press and the windmill should not be attempted. But, at least in my experience, people who don't tolerate t-spine rotation are relatively few and far between, and most people benefit from additional t-spine rotation work.

T-spine movement under load can be OK, depending on the lift, the person, the weight, etc.

-S-

 

[rickyw]

@Steve Freides , I have a history of back problems also. I have definitely noted that this time around with the windmill things are going better for me as well. I don't try and push the range and I dont try and overly rotate my lumbar but instead try and get most of my rotation out of the hips. I really focus on cramping the top lat and this cue really helps me not sidebend the spine. I also retract the chin while looking up and this helps me not flex the spine as well. And I'm only doing the low windmill currently and not pushing the weight.

 

[masa]

Windmill stick is a good stretch, if one wants to do windmill unloaded.