Barbell Young martial artist wanting to return to barbell after discovering love for kettlebell

[whyit_EM8]

Hello Strongfirst.

For some background, I am a 19 year martial artist with 15 years of training in kyokushin karate and now a beginner in BJJ. In high school, I got into lifting through stronglifts 5x5 and became obsessed with fitness and lifting heavy. In a year I hit a 290lbs squat for 5 sets of 5 at about 5'7, 165-170lbs. Unfortunately, I faltered as my goals became hazy and overly concerned with my aesthetics. I had been overweight yet sort of fit from karate up to that point, so looking good for the first time was overwhelming. In my last year of high school, I needed an emergency appendectomy that took me away from the gym entirely. The end of my recovery almost perfectly aligned with the beginning of covid so that prolonged my absence from the gym from months to almost two years. In this time though, I discovered Simple and Sinister and have now been training with kettlebells for over a year. I have seen incredible changes in my athleticism and mobility but have lost a lot of strength and miss lifting heavy.

Now, I am in university and have access to a fitness facility that can accommodate my every need. I have remained solely focused on simple and sinister in terms of weight training but want to reintegrate barbell training into my routine. I know my lifts will be no where near where they were two years ago but I really want to refocus on traditional strength training. I dont care if I need to restart with just the bar. With my experience in kettlebell, I would like to reap the benefits of both, wanting to improve my absolute strength while promoting my martial arts training.

In short, I am feeling somewhat paralyzed in terms of where to start and could use some tips or a program to help me transition back into barbell without leaving kettlebell and its benefits behind. These areas of fitness seem to be shared by many in this community so it seemed like the best place to ask.

Thank you.

 

[John K]

It partly depends on how often you can train. A five or six day week is easy for me and isn’t for others. It also partly depends whether you access to kettlebells and barbells in the same place, or different places. I have kettlebells at home, barbells at a gym. I can’t train them together.

How often are you currently training S&S? What weight have you mastered? Are you training around any injuries, or do you have any limitations? Do you have access to barbells and kettlebells at the same place? What do your current training days look like? Eg you are doing S&S “by the book” - warm up with goblet squats/halos/bridges then 100 swings then 10 getups … or something else?

I’m happy to tell you what I would do, but it might not be the best fit for you, and those questions would help.

 

[John K]

Also @whyit_EM8 - aesthetic goals aren’t “faltering.” It is 100% ok to train for them.

 

[whyit_EM8]

It partly depends on how often you can train. A five or six day week is easy for me and isn’t for others. It also partly depends whether you access to kettlebells and barbells in the same place, or different places. I have kettlebells at home, barbells at a gym. I can’t train them together.

How often are you currently training S&S? What weight have you mastered? Are you training around any injuries, or do you have any limitations? Do you have access to barbells and kettlebells at the same place? What do your current training days look like? Eg you are doing S&S “by the book” - warm up with goblet squats/halos/bridges then 100 swings then 10 getups … or something else?

I’m happy to tell you what I would do, but it might not be the best fit for you, and those questions would help.

I have 35, 45 and 55 KB at home but am now doing by the book (warmup, stretching after) S&S daily at the gym, where there are up to 60lbs bells and practically anything else I could think of, including many power racks. I train at home when necessary. Right now I can do all my get up sets with the 60. I have been keeping my 1 arm swing to the 35lbs bell but in the past got comfortable with the 45. Moving away resulted in a break. I do believe my form is better now but am going slow increasing the weight of my 1 arm swing as I found my joints were not keeping up with my strength. I do make sure I fit in a day or two a week of 2 hand swings as well. No injuries. I can easily access the gym everyday.

Side note, I loved training in a more boby building style, and saw many aesthetic as well strength improvements. I only note that it was around this point where I became bogged down with information that started to do nothing but make me over complicate what I was doing and ultimately made me unmotivated. As well as becoming to focused on being lean.

 

[Ken_]

There's an article on here that does S&S twice a week and PTTP (barbell deadlift and a press) twice a week that might be worth looking at.

There's also Easy Strength that covers most of the basic movements (hinge, squat, push, pull and loaded carry) in which you could use whatever combination of kettlebells and barbells you want.

 

[BJJ Shawn]

There's an article on here that does S&S twice a week and PTTP (barbell deadlift and a press) twice a week that might be worth looking at.

There's also Easy Strength that covers most of the basic movements (hinge, squat, push, pull and loaded carry) in which you could use whatever combination of kettlebells and barbells you want.

Do you have a link to that article? I have never seen it and can't find it in the article section, but that sounds like a plan that is similar to what I've been trying to figure out for a year, so I'd be very interested to see it.

 

[Conrad]

Do you have a link to that article? I have never seen it and can't find it in the article section, but that sounds like a plan that is similar to what I've been trying to figure out for a year, so I'd be very interested to see it.

It was in Easy Strength I think. I’m just about to start doing that. The barbell online course also has a couple of good options to integrate barbells with a few kettlebell exercises.

 

[Starlord]

Hello Strongfirst.

For some background, I am a 19 year martial artist with 15 years of training in kyokushin karate and now a beginner in BJJ. In high school, I got into lifting through stronglifts 5x5 and became obsessed with fitness and lifting heavy. In a year I hit a 290lbs squat for 5 sets of 5 at about 5'7, 165-170lbs. Unfortunately, I faltered as my goals became hazy and overly concerned with my aesthetics. I had been overweight yet sort of fit from karate up to that point, so looking good for the first time was overwhelming. In my last year of high school, I needed an emergency appendectomy that took me away from the gym entirely. The end of my recovery almost perfectly aligned with the beginning of covid so that prolonged my absence from the gym from months to almost two years. In this time though, I discovered Simple and Sinister and have now been training with kettlebells for over a year. I have seen incredible changes in my athleticism and mobility but have lost a lot of strength and miss lifting heavy.

Now, I am in university and have access to a fitness facility that can accommodate my every need. I have remained solely focused on simple and sinister in terms of weight training but want to reintegrate barbell training into my routine. I know my lifts will be no where near where they were two years ago but I really want to refocus on traditional strength training. I dont care if I need to restart with just the bar. With my experience in kettlebell, I would like to reap the benefits of both, wanting to improve my absolute strength while promoting my martial arts training.

In short, I am feeling somewhat paralyzed in terms of where to start and could use some tips or a program to help me transition back into barbell without leaving kettlebell and its benefits behind. These areas of fitness seem to be shared by many in this community so it seemed like the best place to ask.

Thank you.

What benefits in particular are you worried about losing?

For me KB offer a means of blended numerous adaptations in a short space of time. Which when you are short on time and equipment is fantastic.

But if you have the capacity to train everyday. In an environment we're equipment isn't an option then you can optimise.

Proper barbell strength sessions will be superior for SnC than the KB as it can be loaded more effectively.

Easy runs will be superior to swings at creating an aerobic base.

I say that as someone who is a huge fan of A&A KB Snatches.

The aesthetics part is a hard one. I would argue you need to get strong and lean to develop an aesthetic physique. But what is aesthetic differs person to person and I maybe pushing my version of what is aesthetic upon you.

So let's talk programming. To me 5×5 is the simple and clear choice with some modifications.

Instead of deadlifts and rows you perform HEAVY swings. The heaviest weight you can swing with good form for 10×10.

Pull ups, chest supported rows, back raises and hanging knee raises to traction the spine, train the upper back and core at the end of the session. 3×10 is plenty here.

This 3 times a week will give you DOMS but you will adapt as your work capacity improves.

Once you are accustomed to the additional workload you will notice the clear improvements that being stronger will have on your BJJ.

 

[John K]

I have 35, 45 and 55 KB at home but am now doing by the book (warmup, stretching after) S&S daily at the gym, where there are up to 60lbs bells and practically anything else I could think of, including many power racks. I train at home when necessary. Right now I can do all my get up sets with the 60. I have been keeping my 1 arm swing to the 35lbs bell but in the past got comfortable with the 45. Moving away resulted in a break. I do believe my form is better now but am going slow increasing the weight of my 1 arm swing as I found my joints were not keeping up with my strength. I do make sure I fit in a day or two a week of 2 hand swings as well. No injuries. I can easily access the gym everyday.

Side note, I loved training in a more boby building style, and saw many aesthetic as well strength improvements. I only note that it was around this point where I became bogged down with information that started to do nothing but make me over complicate what I was doing and ultimately made me unmotivated. As well as becoming to focused on being lean.

I highly recommend getting someone to look at your swing form. Whenever a swing made something of mine cranky, it was because my form was off.

There's a lot of ways to do this. The below mashup would be one way to include swings and getups into a novice barbell program, which as I've spelled out below is basically a modified Starting Strength.

Day 1	Day 2	Day 3	Day 4	Day 5	Day 6
Warm-up - Goblet Squat 2x5 - Halo 2x5 - Getup @ 16kg x 5 + 5 (you may need to work up to this)		Warm-up - Goblet Squat 3x5 - Halo 3x5 - Get-up @ * x 1 + 1 x 3		Warm-up, Circuit - 2 rounds - Goblet Squat x5 - Halo x5 - Get-up @ 24kg x 2 + 2	Warm-up - Goblet Squat 3x5 - Halo 3x5 - Hip Bridge 3x5
Main Work Barbell Bench 3x5 + Barbell Squat 3x5 + 1HSw 10x10		Main Work Barbell Press 3x5+ Barbell Deadlift x 5**		Main Work Barbell Bench 3x5+ Barbell Squat 3x5+ 2HSw 10x10	Main Work 1HSw 10x10 Get-up 10x1 Press 2-4x8-12

3x5+ : All three sets at the same weight, first two sets for 5, second set rep out until you're not sure you can make the next rep. Train smart, use safeties and/or spotters. When you hit 10 reps on your last set, add 5lbs to upper body lifts/10lbs to lower body lifts. You do not have to go fro a rep max every week. There's two ways I'd go about this: Some weeks you'll feel good, see how many you can get; some weeks you'll feel run down - just do your fives. OR you can be methodical - each week just do one more rep; this means you'll stay at a given weight for 6 weeks.

Swings: Work by the talk test, per the book.

* Use a weight you can do the all 10 getups with. You said right now that's 60lbs, so use that. With most of the getup weights, like the 16kg and the 24kg, those are good baselines but you may not be there yet. You might be able to do 3+3 with the 35lb kettlebell, or you might need to use the 45lb kettlebell for 2+2 because you can't do the 55lb one yet. Basically, especially since you're limited in your top weight, you want to start training continuous get ups. Always start with the side you struggle most with.

**Deadlift is to a top set of 5, add 5-10lbs each week.

For the Day 4 Press, do it after the getups. The goal here is volume. You're not trying to do another heavy day of pressing, but to get more reps in - pick a weight you can do 2 sets of 8, then build up reps and sets. This can be a press you're interested in doing - a second barbell press, an incline barbell press, dumbbell versions, seated presses... This would also be a great day to start learning the kettlebell press if you so desire - cheat clean it on your less-strong side, and let that side determine the reps. I'm giving you options but pick one press not all the presses.

Keep day 2 and 4 either off or easy; take Day 7 off. I don't think I'd add more swings on this day, but I think getups would be fine. Personally, I'd suggest adding easy runs on days 2/4/6 - either go by the talk test or keep it to what allows you to breath through your nose only without feeling like you're sucking air through a straw. I know the college I went to had some nice cross country trails in some nearby woods - something like that would be perfect.

After Day 1 and Day 3 feel free to do additional work for back, arms, or calves. You could do something light like flies or lateral raises, but mostly this is for hitting muscles that were the focus of the main moves - so don't think this is a good place to add incline dumbbell bench or leg extensions. The goal for any of these extra bits would be to get a good pump. An example for calves would be to rep out standing single-leg calf raises without weight until you can't maintain the same height, then on that last rep hold it for as long as possible. It'll take a minute per leg at most. You could even do that 3 days in a row, take a day off, and then repeat. This is 100% optional, and is mostly there to keep you from getting an itch you can't scratch and then just abandoning ship.

It'll be hard in a college cafeteria, but I'd focus on getting your bodyweight in protein in grams a day. Eat your veggies. Have fresh fruit.

If you run this, feel free to PM me anytime asking questions.

 

[LoneRider]

It was in Easy Strength I think. I’m just about to start doing that. The barbell online course also has a couple of good options to integrate barbells with a few kettlebell exercises.

I thought it was 2 week blocks of S&S and PTTP alternating.

 

[Conrad]

I thought it was 2 week blocks of S&S and PTTP alternating.

Yes you are correct! I mis-read what was above

 

[whyit_EM8]

I highly recommend getting someone to look at your swing form. Whenever a swing made something of mine cranky, it was because my form was off.

There's a lot of ways to do this. The below mashup would be one way to include swings and getups into a novice barbell program, which as I've spelled out below is basically a modified Starting Strength.

Day 1	Day 2	Day 3	Day 4	Day 5	Day 6
Warm-up - Goblet Squat 2x5 - Halo 2x5 - Getup @ 16kg x 5 + 5 (you may need to work up to this)		Warm-up - Goblet Squat 3x5 - Halo 3x5 - Get-up @ * x 1 + 1 x 3		Warm-up, Circuit - 2 rounds - Goblet Squat x5 - Halo x5 - Get-up @ 24kg x 2 + 2	Warm-up - Goblet Squat 3x5 - Halo 3x5 - Hip Bridge 3x5
Main Work Barbell Bench 3x5 + Barbell Squat 3x5 + 1HSw 10x10		Main Work Barbell Press 3x5+ Barbell Deadlift x 5**		Main Work Barbell Bench 3x5+ Barbell Squat 3x5+ 2HSw 10x10	Main Work 1HSw 10x10 Get-up 10x1 Press 2-4x8-12

3x5+ : All three sets at the same weight, first two sets for 5, second set rep out until you're not sure you can make the next rep. Train smart, use safeties and/or spotters. When you hit 10 reps on your last set, add 5lbs to upper body lifts/10lbs to lower body lifts. You do not have to go fro a rep max every week. There's two ways I'd go about this: Some weeks you'll feel good, see how many you can get; some weeks you'll feel run down - just do your fives. OR you can be methodical - each week just do one more rep; this means you'll stay at a given weight for 6 weeks.

Swings: Work by the talk test, per the book.

* Use a weight you can do the all 10 getups with. You said right now that's 60lbs, so use that. With most of the getup weights, like the 16kg and the 24kg, those are good baselines but you may not be there yet. You might be able to do 3+3 with the 35lb kettlebell, or you might need to use the 45lb kettlebell for 2+2 because you can't do the 55lb one yet. Basically, especially since you're limited in your top weight, you want to start training continuous get ups. Always start with the side you struggle most with.

**Deadlift is to a top set of 5, add 5-10lbs each week.

For the Day 4 Press, do it after the getups. The goal here is volume. You're not trying to do another heavy day of pressing, but to get more reps in - pick a weight you can do 2 sets of 8, then build up reps and sets. This can be a press you're interested in doing - a second barbell press, an incline barbell press, dumbbell versions, seated presses... This would also be a great day to start learning the kettlebell press if you so desire - cheat clean it on your less-strong side, and let that side determine the reps. I'm giving you options but pick one press not all the presses.

Keep day 2 and 4 either off or easy; take Day 7 off. I don't think I'd add more swings on this day, but I think getups would be fine. Personally, I'd suggest adding easy runs on days 2/4/6 - either go by the talk test or keep it to what allows you to breath through your nose only without feeling like you're sucking air through a straw. I know the college I went to had some nice cross country trails in some nearby woods - something like that would be perfect.

After Day 1 and Day 3 feel free to do additional work for back, arms, or calves. You could do something light like flies or lateral raises, but mostly this is for hitting muscles that were the focus of the main moves - so don't think this is a good place to add incline dumbbell bench or leg extensions. The goal for any of these extra bits would be to get a good pump. An example for calves would be to rep out standing single-leg calf raises without weight until you can't maintain the same height, then on that last rep hold it for as long as possible. It'll take a minute per leg at most. You could even do that 3 days in a row, take a day off, and then repeat. This is 100% optional, and is mostly there to keep you from getting an itch you can't scratch and then just abandoning ship.

It'll be hard in a college cafeteria, but I'd focus on getting your bodyweight in protein in grams a day. Eat your veggies. Have fresh fruit.

If you run this, feel free to PM me anytime asking questions.

Wow. Thank you so much for taking the time to do this. I am currently back home in between semesters so Ill be sticking to S&S for a few more weeks but once I return to school I will absolutely start this program. Just to clarify, I am a little confused on how to go about the warm up get ups. Is this all one set? Im not too sure what to do about the + 5. And for the other warmup movements, should I still use whatever I consider a light kettlebell like Pavel suggests? I think when I first start Ill just use the bar and progress from there, really focus on redeveloping my form.

This makes me really excited to get back in the gym, I seriously wouldnt have expected these responses, including from the other posters. Wish I asked for help months ago.

 

[Period]

As a side note, if you're serious about BJJ and your university happens to have a wrestling team, see if you can train with them on the mat. Your takedown game and overall coordination will thank you down the line. That should also give you direct access to coaches you can discuss strength training for grappling with.

 

[Andi-in-BKK]

I would give @Geoff Neupert plans a look. Barbell bolt on and Hybrid Burn Extreme (with the barbell and or body weight options) both deal with adding barbell lifts to your kettlebell training. I’m currently training BJJ 3x weekly (more when I can) and running HBE but dropping day 4 to have a recovery day mid week.

 

[whyit_EM8]

As a side note, if you're serious about BJJ and your university happens to have a wrestling team, see if you can train with them on the mat. Your takedown game and overall coordination will thank you down the line. That should also give you direct access to coaches you can discuss strength training for grappling with.

I did consider this however the schools team is only for lifelong wrestlers apparently and Im not sure if they currently train anyway. I do have a few years of varsity rugby under my belt though. Not the same but Ive had some wrestlers at my bjj gym say it seems to help.

 

[John K]

Wow. Thank you so much for taking the time to do this. I am currently back home in between semesters so Ill be sticking to S&S for a few more weeks but once I return to school I will absolutely start this program. Just to clarify, I am a little confused on how to go about the warm up get ups. Is this all one set? Im not too sure what to do about the + 5. And for the other warmup movements, should I still use whatever I consider a light kettlebell like Pavel suggests? I think when I first start Ill just use the bar and progress from there, really focus on redeveloping my form.

This makes me really excited to get back in the gym, I seriously wouldnt have expected these responses, including from the other posters. Wish I asked for help months ago.

Yes, sorry. The warmup getups I've laid out as 5+5, 2+2, and 1+1 x 3. Basically X+X means you do one side, switch to the other side, and do the set on that side, with minimal rest between sides. Of course, if you need to, you can rest between sides in order to maintain quality. For 5+5, you're doing 5 getups on one side without setting the weight down. If you need to take a break before the next side, you can, but the "+5" would ideally be 5 on one side without setting it down, switch to the other side, and repeat. These will be light weight at first in order to get through all of them; if you can't do 5 continuous with your smallest kettlebell, then do what you can - for instance, maybe you can only do 3; that's fine, and just work on building to 5 - maybe do 3+3 this month, 4+4 next month, and 5+5 the month after that (if you can). In what I laid out above, the only day you're doing getups "by the book" is Day 6, with 10x1 being 10 singles (5 per side), rest in between each.

For the other warmup movements, use a light kettlebell like Pavel suggests.

I do think @Period has a good suggestion, talking to the wrestling coach. Even if you can't train with them, the coach might be able to help provide guidance for your training. At the very least you could send him an email. Easy to do, little to lose, lot to gain.

 

[whyit_EM8]

Yes, sorry. The warmup getups I've laid out as 5+5, 2+2, and 1+1 x 3. Basically X+X means you do one side, switch to the other side, and do the set on that side, with minimal rest between sides. Of course, if you need to, you can rest between sides in order to maintain quality. For 5+5, you're doing 5 getups on one side without setting the weight down. If you need to take a break before the next side, you can, but the "+5" would ideally be 5 on one side without setting it down, switch to the other side, and repeat. These will be light weight at first in order to get through all of them; if you can't do 5 continuous with your smallest kettlebell, then do what you can - for instance, maybe you can only do 3; that's fine, and just work on building to 5 - maybe do 3+3 this month, 4+4 next month, and 5+5 the month after that (if you can). In what I laid out above, the only day you're doing getups "by the book" is Day 6, with 10x1 being 10 singles (5 per side), rest in between each.

For the other warmup movements, use a light kettlebell like Pavel suggests.

I do think @Period has a good suggestion, talking to the wrestling coach. Even if you can't train with them, the coach might be able to help provide guidance for your training. At the very least you could send him an email. Easy to do, little to lose, lot to gain.

Ok that makes a lot more sense, wouldnt have thought to do get ups like that. And yeah good point, Ill see if I can get in touch with him. I would certainly like to.

 

[Luis T. Gonzalez]

Hello Strongfirst.

For some background, I am a 19 year martial artist with 15 years of training in kyokushin karate and now a beginner in BJJ. In high school, I got into lifting through stronglifts 5x5 and became obsessed with fitness and lifting heavy. In a year I hit a 290lbs squat for 5 sets of 5 at about 5'7, 165-170lbs. Unfortunately, I faltered as my goals became hazy and overly concerned with my aesthetics. I had been overweight yet sort of fit from karate up to that point, so looking good for the first time was overwhelming. In my last year of high school, I needed an emergency appendectomy that took me away from the gym entirely. The end of my recovery almost perfectly aligned with the beginning of covid so that prolonged my absence from the gym from months to almost two years. In this time though, I discovered Simple and Sinister and have now been training with kettlebells for over a year. I have seen incredible changes in my athleticism and mobility but have lost a lot of strength and miss lifting heavy.

Now, I am in university and have access to a fitness facility that can accommodate my every need. I have remained solely focused on simple and sinister in terms of weight training but want to reintegrate barbell training into my routine. I know my lifts will be no where near where they were two years ago but I really want to refocus on traditional strength training. I dont care if I need to restart with just the bar. With my experience in kettlebell, I would like to reap the benefits of both, wanting to improve my absolute strength while promoting my martial arts training.

In short, I am feeling somewhat paralyzed in terms of where to start and could use some tips or a program to help me transition back into barbell without leaving kettlebell and its benefits behind. These areas of fitness seem to be shared by many in this community so it seemed like the best place to ask.

Thank you.

Rite of Passage is a good program that includes KB press, swing, snatch, get up, and on variety days two days or one day a week you could perform DL and Sq. That would be a good way to keep your kb work going and trickle in some barbell lifting such as PTTP style 2x5 warm up and 2x5 work sets starting relatively light. I followed this program to pass my SFG 1 Certification. Pavel also wrote a Deadlift and kb article called Deadlifting and Kettlebells go together like Vodka and pickles.

 

[LoneRider]

@Coach Louie, running Vodka and Pickles myself (first day down was yesterday) and thus far I'm enjoying it.

I use a slow circuit of KB Clean and Press and weighted chins for the upper body work.

 

[Ken_]

Do you have a link to that article? I have never seen it and can't find it in the article section, but that sounds like a plan that is similar to what I've been trying to figure out for a year, so I'd be very interested to see it.

I tried searching for it but couldn't find it either.

I thought it was 2 week blocks of S&S and PTTP alternating.

Now that you mentioned it, I remember that there were two options, the one I mentioned above and the 2 week blocks.

For the one I mentioned it went something like this:
Mon: PTTP
Tue: S&S
Thu: PTTP
Fri: S&S