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Barbell Zercher Squat Critique

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Took me a while to understand this. I believe you are suggesting to work on back (or front?) squat? The reason I chose to do zercher was because the gym I have access to does not have a squat rack.

Not even a set of stands?
Do you have any way to get to a better gym?
That's a real bummer if you really can't back squat due to lacking proper strength training equipment. If this situation is going to persist you're not going to be able to barbell press either, and if the gym is that poorly equipped, I imagine you're quickly going to be standing in front of an impressive rack of dumbbells, because I doubt they're properly equipped with kettlebells either. If that is all true, you need to learn how to do a barbell clean to get the weight up to your shoulders in a front rack position. From there, you can press or front squat. I would not recommend popping the bar over your head in order to do back squats, but I know many people have done that.

And your surmise regarding getting your back squat up was correct: since strength is a general adaptation, the movement that successfully creates the most strength by allowing one to train with the heaviest loads will have the greatest spillover into other movements. In this case the movement that fulfills this requirement is the back squat, particularly the "low bar" version thereof. The video is just a really strong guy doing his first Zercher squats working up to 405 more or less on a dare.
 
I imagine you're quickly going to be standing in front of an impressive rack of dumbbells, because I doubt they're properly equipped with kettlebells eithe

That's exactly right :) , there is whole array of dumbbells from one end of the wall to the other. All kinds from 2lbs to 100lbs. No kettlebells. This is not a commercial gym. It is a gym in our office building for the employees. It saves me a lot of time. Lunch break or afternoon, and in only a few minutes I am training. That is a big benefit. But I hear you and know what you are saying. Hopefully one day I would do just that- switch gym. I am currently reading 'Starting Strength' and the first chapter is all about back squat its comparison with high bar squat, front squat etc. mark Rippetoe prefers back squat over other versions.

I recently saw a blog here from Pavel about how Zercher version is an excellent form of squat and that it is easier to learn. I also saw others doing/suggesting zercher as a replacement for back squat in Faleev's program. This is the reason I chose to do it.
 
I am currently reading 'Starting Strength' and the first chapter is all about back squat its comparison with high bar squat, front squat etc. mark Rippetoe prefers back squat over other versions.

This is true. The reasons are clearly spelled out in the book as I'm sure you've noticed by now. As a veteran of that particular program, I can state with certainty that you have to have all the equipment in place in order to attempt it. I don't think that's your intention. Your immediate concern is to find a place where you can actually train - if your intention is to train. This seems obvious, but it's surprising how often people will not grasp that a barbell strength program that programs squats 3 times a week...... requires a squat rack. (And barbells, a platform for deadlifts, round plates, fractional plates, a bar with actual knurling, chalk....)
 
Yes, in addition to the above, hips back more. Your zercher squat looks more like a goblet squat, as I did when I first tried them. I was corrected at the SFL to sit the hips back as you would in a back squat, deadlift, and kettlebell swing. Tailbone back to 8:00 on a clock (where goblet squat is 6:00, front squat is 7:00, good morning is 9:00.)

I have been trying to do this way. When I try to hit the 8:00 clock, the depth suffers. I believe this is natural and is OK? One person who is trained in StrongFirst methods even suggested that I hit 6:00 click much like in goblet squat. I am confused. Perhaps there is no right or wrong answer here? From Starting Strength, I learned about the different types of squats and the how the role of hamstrings varies in each.

Thanks.
 
When I try to hit the 8:00 clock, the depth suffers. I believe this is natural and is OK?

Yes. It won't be as deep as a goblet squat. In my understanding this is correct for a Zercher squat. From the SFL manual, "Squat in a wider-than-your-shoulders stance, your feet turned out about 30 degrees. Keep your weight over your mid-feet but sit back rather than down. Keep ankle dorsiflexion to a minimum. Touch the bar to the tops of your knees, pause momentarily, and drive up."

There does seem to be different schools of thought on it out there in other teachings. For example, in this video, the technique shown is a lot more like 6:00. This video does not match how we did it at SFL. Not that it's harmful to do it more like a goblet squat -- it's just that , as Doc said, "You're hurting your elbows for no reason." You might as well hold the barbell up at your shoulders; behind the clavicles and close to the throat in either the bodybuilding rack (arms crossed) or weightlifting rack (elbows up and forward), and front squat. To the lower body, it is the same. Sitting back rather than down gives you additional benefits of the Zercher -- works the abs harder, and gives more carryover to both the deadlift and the back squat. And with a lower center of gravity than back or front squats, it's easier to balance the weight and "you can "grind" harder without losing your form." (SFL)

Looking at a sampling of other videos instructional videos out there on a YouTube search... there are a lot of bad ones. They are not tight, not controlled, and not getting the benefits that they could. Most of them are using too light of a weight to demonstrate good form or do any actual strength work.
 
FWIW, I've never done these from a rack or from an elevation - just deadlift the bar, do the whole movement with enough weight on the bar to make you take notice, and you'll probably figure out how it works if you have some experience deadlifting and squatting already.

In the video, the person is lowering the bar in front of his knees - I've never seen that before and don't recommend it.

-S-
 
I made a video for you this morning.

Zercher squats, 85 lb; A set of 5 "good" ones (I think ;)) followed by a 6th one that's more like a goblet squat.

 
@Anna C Thanks a bunch! I almost was going to ask you to make one :) I will model mine after yours. I will post a video in a week or two. I did 125lb yesterday and it was so easy. I think I have plenty of 'beginners gains' to tap into.
 
I've never done these from a rack or from an elevation - just deadlift the bar, do the whole movement with enough weight on the bar to make you take notice
The deadlift approach is more work! It felt to me that the squats are wrapped in two additional movements of deadlift at both ends. I find that it is easier to do it from a rack ;)
 
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